I was curious to see if the Bose equalizer could be completely replaced by the Behringer DEQ2496 (instead of using both in series). Answer is definitely YES, although the Bose user manual says otherwise.
First set the Parametric function to 502 Hz / 6 oct / -14 dB. This compensates most of the speaker's frequency response problem.
Then do the usual Automatic equalization process. This tweeks things up and takes care of room effects.
The overall sonic result is significantly improved over using the Bose electronics. Perhaps much of the inferior sound of these speakers derives from the electronics rather than the speakers proper. |
Shadorne...Based on similar pools I have visited, humidity will not be a problem. This is a small exercise pool, 8X20. The building is well ventilated, and has AC for dehumidification. And it is a pool house, not an audio room, so the sound will be whatever it will be.
The Bose idea occured to me precisely because the room will be so reverberant. These speakers are based on reflected sound, and might be just the ticket. Does Bose offer a home trial period? |
The rugged professional Bose speakers are 802. They look a bit like the 901, but are really a different design, and cost just a bit more than half what the 901 costs. |
Well, I ordered a pair.
Markphd...Exactly. It's for fun, not audiophile listening.
That said, I must admit that I have heard some Bose 901 setups that really were good. I think that they require a large room with high ceiling, and an uncluttered front wall for them to bounce their sound off. This is exactly what I have.
In spite of all the reflected sound they can image quite well. I believe that this is because the single front driver sound arrives at the listener earlier than the reflected sound, and time-of-arrival is very important in the sensing of sound location.
The owner's manual, which you can download, goes into detail about how to hang them from the ceiling. I never saw an owner's manual mention this option. Hanging speakers is a controversial topic among audiophiles, but the ones who say it's a lousy idea have never tried it. I intend to set up that way.
The Bose are intended for Rear channels. However, I will be able to compare them with some well regarded Dynaudio monitors with subwoofers at the front. Anyone want to make a bet? |
Thanks to all who offered encouragement. I suspect that there is a Bose in the past for a lot of audiophiles although some are afraid to admit it! I will report back when the building is complete and the speakers are up and playing. |
Well, I finally got the room to the point where it was worthwhile to hook up the 901s and give them a try. I am driving them with an Adcom 5503 amp that I fished out of a closet. The speakers, which are on the Bose stands, are set up on the 26 foot end wall, about 6 feet from the end and side walls. Between the speakers is a very large window unit...about 11 ft wide, 7 ft high, with a circle window above it all. I had intended to use the 901s for surround, but at the moment, and perhaps for ever, they are Fronts.
With the right kind of music the results are very good. One recording, ARTS 47605-6, "New Years Concert in Vienna"(lots of Strauss) is spectacular. Huge sound field. Several other Orchestral and organ recordings were also tried with good results. A solo piano recording was just OK. Imaging is not as bad as one might expect from these speakers, and would probably be better if they were not so far apart. I need to try a whole bunch more recordings.
I would not recommend 901s for the typical living room, or even the typical dedicated music room, but if you have a small gym, or a pool house like me, the 901s are made to order. |
More interesting findings about the Bose 901s.
I hooked up a Behringer DEQ2496 equalizer to see how they were doing. This equalization was in addition to the Bose equalizer supplied with the speakers. The frequency response was aweful! It was a big hump, with the peak at about 630 Hz. 10 dB down at 5K. 15 dB down at 10K. 25 dB down around 18K. On the low end, serious roll off started around 100 Hz. 12 dB down at 40 Hz. This was surprising to me because they really were sounding quite good in my pool room environment.
So I ran the automatic equalization process in the Behringer, and the result was even more surprising.
Perfectly flat from 30 Hz to 15 KHz. Like a different speaker.
Since the Bose 901 comes with its unique equalizer one wonders why they left the frequency response so bad. Most likely Bose engineers found out that the average guy likes that midrange emphasis. I did observe that when playing some music with a lot of bass really loud there was some obvious overload of the speakers. I will probably roll off the bass a bit to avoid this problem. The break around 100 Hz would play well into use of a subwoofer.
All in all I find these speakers near-ideal for the environment I am using them in.
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Inpepinnovations...The nature of these speakers (reflected sound) would surely make them more affected by the room than most speakers. The response that I observed (without the extra equalization) was a very broard "hump" across the entire audio range (like a Gaussian distribution curve) and had very little in the way of localized peaks and notches. My microphone position was at least 20 feet away from the speakers. I would try it again close mic'd, but how would you do that with these reflected sound speakers?
The bass overload (distortion) was due to the signal driving the speakers. The Bose equalizer boosts the bass, and I was adding another 15dB to get the flat response. The power amp I used for this test is good for 250 watts, so I doubt that it was the problem. |
Inpepinnovations...The Bose equalizer comes before the Behringer, so the Bose doesn't have to put out anything extra. And the Behringer has LEDs indicating its input level, which, if anything, is a bit low. (The Behringer has balanced output to the amp).
I guess the 901's can play loud, or have extended bass, but not both at the same time. Hey, what can you expect from a bunch of 4" speakers. |
Rodman99999 and Wireless200 have expressed the official audiophile opinion. I would most of the time agree. But, my swimming pool room is an unusual environment, and, on a hunch, I decided to give the 901s a try. I don't regret it.
For serious listening I can relax with my Maggies. |
Rodman99999...I have been surprised, and you would be also, by the excellent imaging and soundstage created by MY Bose901s in MY room. The wall behind them is 26 ft wide with a cathedral ceiling going up to about 24 ft, and with a wide and tall window in the center. The walls and ceiling are all cedar wood. Talk about reflective!! But the 901s, set out about 6 or 7 ft from the wall, and about 14 ft apart, really like this environment. I bet that few audiophiles who are so critical of the 901s have heard them in such an environment. I did long ago (brick wall in a warehouse) and that's what gave me the courage to try them in my new room.
IM distortion is very anoying to me, but I don't hear any unusual amount from these speakers. I find that it mostly occurs with vocals, and the microphone used to record the voice is usually the source. |
Rodman99999...Actually I would like to build an airplane in the room, but the wife sez "NO!".
What is it about the "method of operation and design" that puts you off. Are you really familiar with Prof Bose original concept for the 901s? I think it was quite creative.
My result isn't luck, but rather is the synergy of an unusual room and an unusual speaker. |
Rodman99999...When I was at MIT Prof Bose had a huge multidriver speaker hung from the ceiling in the music library. It was mono. (That gives you an idea how long ago it was). At the time his interest was in multiple small drivers instead of one big one. Perhaps he was before his time, because today it's hard to find an audiophile speaker with a 12" or 15" woofer, and 6" woofers are multiplying like cup holders in cars. But his creative idea was to push the resonant frequency UP, instead of down, as all other designers do, so as to operate below resonance where rolloff behavior is smooth and predictable, and therefore correctable by electronic means. |
Rodman99999...But, those little woofers ARE trying to reproduce everything down to 20 Hz, unless you use a filter to electronicly roll off the signal around 40 Hz. They beat their little hearts out trying, without much audible result, but with adverse effect on important higher frequencies. That's why subwoofers have become so popular. They replace what speaker system manufacturers left out. |
Rodman99999...A ten inch driver is large enough to be useful especially if you have a line array of them. |
Inpepinnovations..."If carefully installed and under the right conditions, the Bose 901s are not as bad as audiophiles would have others believe".
Exactly. That's why I took the trouble to begin this thread. |
Rodman99999...I have observed that a fair amount of casual live music (not the kind I usually listen to) is delivered via Bose 801s (?) speakers which look like 901s turned backwards. Surely a 901 would be near ideal for reproducing what comes out of a 801. I have noted that relatively cheap horn mid/tweeter drivers reproduce trumpet better that expensive audiophile speakers. (OK if you like your violins to sound like trumpets). |
It's interesting that you consider the reflected sound aspect as most important. To my way of thinking there are at least three ideas at work. In order I think important..
1. No attempt to make the speaker proper have flat response. Correct using electronics.
2. Multiple small drivers.
3. Direct/reflecting.
The first two are difficult to explain to the average customer, which is why Bose advertising has emphasized number 3.
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Here is an update...
1...One speaker quit. Open circuit. I contacted Bose. Warantee service was first class.
2...Hooked up the repaired speaker. (I don't know what the problem was). Of course I sat down to listen. Again I was astonished to hear how well the broad soundstage is preasented, and how well a central sound is imaged. Contrary to all audiophile lore.
I am sure that my excellent results are due to the unique room environment, with an assist from the Behringer DEQ2496 replacing the stock Bose equalizer. |
