Beware of new material claims - the case of graphene


Given that graphene is quite the in vogue material for audio applications I wonder how many (if any) of the vendors selling this are actually sourcing the real thing?

http://blogs.sciencemag.org/pipeline/archives/2018/10/11/graphene-you-dont-get-what-you-pay-for
128x128folkfreak

Showing 27 responses by geoffkait

Somebody’s ptss is kicking in. Reading comprehension is apparently not your forte. They’ve been making things with Graphene for many years. 
See my post of 10-22 for some large Graphene production plant locations. Emphasis on the word some. Ptss, you might try keeping up with the discussion.
Sorry, I got a little carried away. I must have been thinking of the Black Goo in Prometheus the engineers figured out how to weaponize. 👻
The trick is how to weaponize Graphene and finding appropriate applications, neither of which is as easy as falling off a log. It’s not really something the typical DIYer would even think of tackling. On the other hand, some applications appear to be pretty darn doable. 🤗
China is technically underrated. In fact, they hold the current distance record for quantum teleportation. They are also rather adept at making iPhones and iPads. All tennis racquets are made in China, including Head Graphene racquets. Besides, nobody says you have to buy Graphene from China as there is a boatload of countries involved in mass production. Duh! Everybody wants a piece of the action.
An example of high output Graphene production plant.

Graphene production plant in China.

Chinese materials company opens new graphene plant in Heilongjiang

Chinese coke company Baotailong New Materials has completed construction of a USD$9.6 million graphene production project in the north of the country and has launched trial-stage operations.

Baotailong completed all work on the facility located in its hometown of Qitaihe in northern Heilongjiang province at the end of last month, the firm said in a statement. The plant boasts an annual graphene output of 50 tons.

Graphene production plant in Canada.

NanoXplore logoCanada-based NanoXplore recently announced a positive feasibility study for its graphene production plant. The company said that the independent feasibility study highlighted several improvement as compared to the project’s preliminary economic assessment (PEA).

NanoXplore is planning to build a 10,000 metric ton/year graphene production plan, which is currently the largest in the world. NanoXplore plans to offer graphene for $10/kg (USD$8/kg) starting from Jan 2020 under the GrapheneBlack brand.

and,

Graphene-Info, based in Israel, claims graphene is “set to revolutionize a lot of industries, including sensors, batteries, conductors, displays, electronics, energy generation, medicine and more.” The Home of Graphene from the University of Manchester has a marvelous video explaining graphene and its endless possible applications.

There are some 100 pure graphene companies (about 15 are public) largely sustained by joint partnerships and investments, i.e., support from legacy corporations, mining companies, government investments, and venture funds. These start-ups are financially risky with sparse sales and no profits. Three years ago, The Graphene Council warned investors, beware of “graphene play” stock investments that may be scam companies. Nevertheless, graphene research and development is turning into an exciting new industry with potential for changing the manufacture of products and their sustainability.

Israeli researchers are also investigating graphene’s value. For example, Ben-Gurion University of the Negev and University of Western Australia researchers have developed a new process for use in energy storage and other material applications that is faster, potentially scalable and surmounts some of the current graphene production limitations. Yaniv Katan, a scientist at Technion, worked on an international team of scientists discovering new ways to turn electricity into light using graphene.

ptss
@geoffkait Yah. And spiders webs are stronger than steel too - and so what. If spiders webs could be produced in labs there’d be “tons” of marketing hype. And they would already be in use to “rigiditize” speaker cones. Yes, we need a new marketing word for any serious scam :). And Geoff - please identify just how many “tons” of graphene are being produced,where and by what company. The universities and research labs would love to know where to pick it up cheap. You could become useful to science! ;) (not)

>>>>>If a frog had wings he wouldn’t bump his rear end so much. Before you show your ignorance and start whining doesn’t it make more sense to spend a few minutes and do some due diligence? When you ass-u-me something you make a fool out of me and Uma Thurman.
Jhills
By very deffinition, Graphene is a micro thin layer (acording to guidocorona, a mono-atomic, layer) of carbon. That’s what makes it Graphene and what allows it’s extreme qualities. It can’t be gooped up in a solution with something else and still be considered Graphene, or expected to posess the qualities of Graphine (spelling).

Just sayn: Beware or fraudulent and perposterous claims.....Jim

>>>>There are many ways to employ Graphene in things without having to deal with nanoscale material. As they have done with contact enhancer, tennis racquets, bicycle racing tires, bicycle frames, Graphene cables. You have to be able to use your, you know...🧠 Don’t be such a big baby.

By the way, Djokovic has been playing with Head Graphene tennis racquets for several years. Doesn’t seem to hurt his game. He’s ranked no. 2. Maybe it’s placebo effect. 😬


How does one handle a material that’s one atom thick? One doesn’t handle it. The Graphene cones are a Graphene composite. Mystery solved! 
Let me remind you that he did not (rpt not) use the word superconductor. You did. Don’t be such a drama queen. If you don’t know the electrical properties of Graphene try Google.
Whoa! Hey! Relax! Don’t flip yer gizzard. it’s just an expression. You know, as in Super Conductor. Which is a true statement. Graphene is a much better conductor than silver or copper ever thought of being.
It’s obviously much more difficult to produce and apply “real” two dimensional graphene. But what’s not clear is that there are also apparently advantages to 2, 3, 4, 5 layer Graphene, which is apparently easier to mass produce, at least I suspect it is, but multi layer Graphene is not quite the super material as “real” Graphene. But it might work very well and be less hassle.

So, one should probably not be quite so suspicious, that’s all I’m saying. Obviously Graphene as applied to Tennis racquets, bike frames, bicycle tires, and Graphene cables the Graphene in question is not two dimensional Graphene but something else. Ditto for the new Graphene speaker diaphrams from Canada. They are Graphene composites, not real Graphene. Graphene is the new carbon fiber, that’s all.
Fake argument. Why would anyone cry foul when you can hear the Graphene based product? Are you intentionally trying to start a fight? What do you mean you don’t understand how Graphene works? Everyone else does by now. 
You’re mistaken. SR does not (rpt not) coat the conductor in their fuses with Graphene. 
I already pointed out Graphene in constructing stronger and stiffer materials is not (rpt not) anything new. Djokovic has been using Head Graphene tennis racquets for some years. Graphene tennis racquets were introduced about six years ago. I have noticed at least one brand of high end bicycle racing tires are now available that employ Graphene for strength (puncture resistance). And that high end bike frames may already contain Graphene. You know, for strength and weight saving. I already mentioned tonearms, plinth, speaker cabinets, iso platforms as audio applications and some mentioned the other day somebody is experimenting with Graphene for tweeter diaphragms. The industry is slow to react. Very slow! So, my advice is hop on board the Graphene train. 🚂 Toot! Toot!
Yeah, right. It’s all a scam, a global conspiracy of monsterous proportions designed and choreographed to lure the naive gullible newbie into the tender tweak trap and squeeze him dry. 😛 What’s next? Artificial atoms? Messages from Mars? Quantum teleportation?
You’re not following. I mentioned physical and electrical properties of Graphene. That’s why Graphene is being used in high end bike tires, tennis racquets, perhaps high end bike frames, I.e., tensile strength and lightness, as well as electrical contact enhancers and high end audio cables, I.e., superior conductivity and EMI/RFI shielding. In other words, it’s a product crying out 😪for applications. I will say, audiophiles seem to understand the implications better than many other industries. The way to build up tensile strength in applications would be to apply Graphene layers, each separated by some thin physical layer of some other material, thus maintaining the functionality and viability of the single layers of Graphene.
Graphene in its two dimensional firm is MUCH stronger, I.e., tensile strength, than steel. It is really a super material. That’s why production plants are cranking this stuff out by the ton, hoping to cash in. Graphene is also an excellent electrical conductor, a super conductor, as it were, much better than copper or silver. In addition Graphene is an excellent shield against EMI/RFI. Even in a 2-5 layer form, Graphene is a formidable material.
Uh, obviously, but why would he share how he makes them with John Q. Public? Anymore than the dude who makes Graphene contact enhancer would be interested in sharing his ideas. 
OK, so you got your single layer or three layer Graphene in ethanol or pure powder. Now what are going to do? 😳
Given that real Graphene is (defined as) one molecule thick and that layer upon layer of Graphene is really no longer Graphene, but still might be better than X, one imagines lots of care is required when making, handling and applying product. On the other hand Graphene has been used in certain tennis racquets for at least five years and is recently showing up in road bike tires. So, most likely by now some Graphene production is top notch. For the DIYer, well, you can always resort to the tape method.