Grant, you are right. The $200 budget really makes things difficult.
The only point I wanted to make was that I am not a fan of the equalizer solution. And, it's not because I haven't tried. On paper, I think I would LOVE to have an EQ in my system. Trial and error has so far shown me that it's the LAST thing I want. Maybe the Behringer would perform differently?
In my experience, AQ interconnects are normally too bright, if not bass shy (borderline there). The Kimber cabling is even brighter. Now, I will admit it is a difficult task. But, you knowing what cabling I recommend at this price point, I would at least give it a shot. If they can be found used, it could probably be tried for about $200. No sonic guarantees, but even if I upgraded the source (which I would definitely do), those cables would need to be upgraded in pretty short order. |
Thank you, Eldartford. That was just the information I needed.
I've got my XLR stuff all in order, and am ready to fire her up, sans microphone, for the initial test drive. |
Point well taken, Eldartford.
Neither my system, nor my room is perfect. Such a beast does not exist, no matter what anyone claims of their own system/room.
I would like to give the Behringer EQ a try. Again, my experience, sans - Behringer, with EQ devices has been abysmal, but I'm beginning to believe that it deserves my audition with open ears AND mind. At that point, I would be in a better position to recommend its use, or not. |
OK, so now that I have sorted some other stuff out, trying the Behringer DEQ 24/96 was next up. Yesterday, I picked one up at the local Guitar Center. Nicely priced at $279.
I was under the impression the unit came with the microphone, which mine did not. Though, after a bit of digging, it seems that the microphone must be purchased separately.
My question, what is the microphone recommended by the folks here?
Once I get up and running, I'll be able to lay out what it did for my systems - good and/or bad. I have one room that has some serious issues, and this guy might be the ticket, if it is as good as promised. |
OK, next question... Does the Behringer DEQ2496 only produce sound when operated in bypass mode when both inputs and outputs are in the analog domain? I must have tried every conceivable configuration over a 2 hour period last night, and was only able to get sound when I operated in "Bypass All" mode.
Must I use digital input in order to EQ the sound, without a microphone/RTA?
Initial impressions are that in "Bypass All" mode, the sound does lose a bit as compared to not having the unit in place - most noticeable is a shaving off of some bass heft and weight - which conceivably could be added back in via EQ. A slight amount of noise and hiss is added in, but nothing akin to a normal equalizer, and presuming I can tailor the sound to my tastes/room, I could live with it. |
Congratulations on the new baby, Grant!
An issue came up with ordering the microphone from a local dealer near me. They're giving me a refund, but I still don't have the microphone. So, while I'm still feeling the Behringer is the right move, I won't know for sure until I get the microphone, and can run a sweep of the room. To be honest, I've been putting my focus into the other system downstairs as of late.
I'm using two interconnects which each feature RCA connectors on one end, and XLR on the other. One pair is a 1.5 m Stealth, featuring silver ribbon, the other is MAS Grey, which are also silver. I also got REALLY lucky at the time, and found an Audiogon buddy here selling 3 pairs of Cardas XLR - RCA adapters, both the male and female, so that was nice.
I'm curious as to your reaction on the Behringer... |
Eldartford, I got the unit working for me last night. Like a complete and total IDIOT, I had the inputs going to my integrated, and outputs going to my CD player. After a couple of minutes of playing around, only being able to get output in "Bypass All" mode, I checked the cables, fixed the stupid mistake, and all worked perfectly afterwards.
Funny that I spent all my initial effort on the female XLR adapter for the outputs, and ended up routing the cables to the wrong place. The inputs are a pair of ICs with RCAs on the output of the CDP and male XLRs into the Behringer. From the outputs of the Behringer, I have a Cardas female XLR - female RCA adapter, then a pair of ICs, with RCAs on each end running into the integrated.
I didn't spend enough time afterwards to gauge the sound, but I was able to change things via the DEQ operation, which left me as pleased as punch as it's the goal of an EQ device. Tonight, I'll sit down and listen more critically, and try to ascertain its effects sonically. After that, I'll switch out the integrated and install the AtmaSphere monos. I have a different pair of male RCA - male XLR cables that'll go right into the Atmas. The CDP is variable out via the tube output - currently set at the 11 O'Clock position.
Nothing is being overdriven or underdriven in my opinion, and so far I've listened at quite low levels. My impressions of the sound in "Bypass All" mode are that I agree that the unit is dead quiet, it's just not 100% transparent. I hope that distinction is not lost on anyone. Along with the aforementioned minor reduction - I'm talking very slight, and totally correctable via a bit of EQ I'll add in later. In DEQ mode, it seemed the additional circuitry made itself known even moreso, but I don't want to say too much yet.
Please understand that the level of resolution I have is such that changes in cabling, tubes, etc. are instantly apparent, and this is no different. Still, it's night and day better than any other equalizer I've ever tried. It also easily, and I do mean easily, eclipses any preamp (Blue Circle, Cary, CAT, Joule, Jeff Rowland) I have installed in terms of transparency, detail, resolution, dynamics, etc. - unlike any preamp I have tried, it did a far, far, far better job of not adding or taking away anything to or from the sound.
I'm waiting on the ECM8000 microphone you recommended (Thank you!), and if the room EQ functionality can fix the issues I have had in there, which room treatments helped with, but did not solve, I'll be as big a proponent of the Behringer DEQ2496 as you are. Over the past four years, I have tried all manner of cabling, tubes, CD players, preamplifiers, power amplifiers, and speakers before coming to the conclusion that the room is the issue - and the most important link in the audio chain. So many of us have MAJOR room issues (I have one excellent room, and this lousy room), including a guy I know who is considered one of the biggest gurus in audio, that finding a component that can correct the problems is a far more important purchase than any room treatment, cable, preamp, or front end source. |
Sherod/Grant, what is the difference between MAS Black and Grey?
I picked up the Grey at the same time John sold me the 3 Cardas adapters (boy, was I at the right place at the right time for those adapters!?!). The MAS was more or less a throw-in, and a no brainer, as you never know when a cable with such a good reputation, having both RCA and XLR terminations, will come in handy. Truthfully, I haven't sat down to evaluate the MAS Grey on its own yet, to be able to know what it actually sounds like. |
I have not listened to the Behringer EQ, and have heard that there are "good" EQs out in the world, but MY experience, which includes the AudioControl, is that an equalizer is the surest means to destroy the sonics of a high end audio system that I can name.
In short, they do everything I rail about preamps for, taken up another order of magnitude. What they subtract (dynamics, immediacy, slam, clarity, refinement), and what they add (noise, distortion, hash) is a combination I want no parts of.
Again, I have not heard the Behringer, and have been "assured" that good EQs do exist, but if there's one thing I espouse in audio, it's that simpler is better. And, adding another component into the audio chain has proven to me in all but a VERY few cases, has only continued to strengthen that view. Maybe the Behringer is one of those special cases, but I'd have to have that proven to me. |
Marty, I believe the unit is, in itself, as 24/96 DAC - hence the name. It it advertised as both A/D and D/A. I intend on mine going between my digital source and integrated or powere amp (hopefully, I won't use a preamp). A little more information can be found at http://www.behringer.com/DEQ2496/index.cfm?lang=ENG |
Yes, a lot of subletys to the DEQ2496, Eldartford. Thanks for making my learning curve a lot shorter! It always pays to follow someone who has already conquered the learning curve.
Last night, I spent a good amount of time with the Behringer, first with the integrated, then my monoblocks. After listening, I must say you are right, the active EQ seems to add nothing more than the "Bypass All" functionality, which is a true accomplishment. No, it's not 100% of what is going into the unit, but it's sooo close, I can think of no high end audio preamp that even gets within the same area code as the Behringer.
With the Atmas, I was able to dial in a bit more upper bass, while cutting back on things a bit around the crossover of my loudspeakers and smoothing out the sound. Now I just need the microphone so I can run the curve of the room, and have the unit apply the appropriate compensation.
Seems like the Behringer is going to be staying, and it will hopefully cure my room anomalies. Right now, I can't think of too much available in today's high end market at $300 that will solve more problems than the Behringer. Problems that many an audiophile aren't aware of, ignore, deny, or go to a lot of trouble to apply room treatments that may create as many issues as they solve. If things continue to progress as they are, the Behringer DEQ2496 is certainly going to have my recommendation.
Thank you again! |
Thank you for the clarification, Grant. Makes sense...
Sherod, your feelings are classic "silver versus copper" debate. There's not a lot that can be added to what you said, except my own experiences. For a time, I liked adding silver in, and at a certain point, a threshold was reached where it became too much. Yes, it did all of these things that looked great on paper, yet I could never sit down and fully relax while listening. One day, I switched out the silver loudspeaker cables for copper, and there was peace. I learned an important lesson. Depending on system and personal tastes, silver or copper will be better. I've really come to appreciate the liquidity and warmth of copper.
I tend to hear silver plated copper exhibiting a lot of the characteristics of silver. Sort of a poor man's silver cable, though I'm sure some cable company who markets this kind of product for mega bucks will jump on me for saying this. |
