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Audio Research discontinuing lower lines components?

I have looked at several components in Audio Research's line and they are discontinuing the LS17-se, PH8, and PH6.  They discontinued the DAC 8.  I know there is a new Ref 6 to replace the Ref 5se and their is a new Ref Phono 3 to replace the Ref Phone 2se coming out.  I talked to my dealer and he stated that Audio Research seems to be making their components look more McIntosh like in the Galeo series. 

The dealer stated their isn't going to be anything that he has heard that will replace the other lines at this point and that AR will be starting at the LS-27, which is $7500 for preamps.  The Ref 75se is the beginning of the line for Amps, which I know, but man are they going the Mac route with prices, nothing to replace the DAC 8 and the other DAC in the line is $11,000, what's up with this, have you guys heard anything more. 

The starting point for AR equipment is getting pretty high and the only way a newer person without means will be able to afford it will be to buy use, which could send the used prices up if there isn't anything else in the line.  What do you guys think and what have you heard?
sid1

Showing 3 responses by minorl

minorl
1,014 posts
 
Just my opinion, but I feel that the tone of the complaints here are really unfair and unfounded.  AR is a company just like any other.  They consider themselves to be a "high end" audio company and therefore, they probably realized that the other equipment cannot compete price wise with like priced competition in the lower priced categories.

So, I believe that they made a business decision (which I don't agree with) to eliminate the lower priced equipment.

That's their choice.  I don't agree with the decision and I'm sure that many within AR didn't agree with that decision.  But, as you all know, you can voice your opinion to upper management, but after you do and management makes it decision, you have two choices.  1) move on with the knowledge that you expressed yourself or 2) move on to another company.

We will see if this decision isn't the start of the downfall of AR or if it is a sound business decision.

I don't think this was an internal AR decision but a parent company business decision.

Nothing wrong with the used equipment market.  Apparently, AR like many other companies come out with new or upgraded equipment every four years or so.  So the used market is pretty good.  You can now find used REF3s, REF5s or REF5SEs, Ph6, etc. for good prices and they are still equal to or better than most equipment out there. 

REF3s are a steal right now on the used market.  The DAC8 is still one of the best DACs out there, despite that awful review from a top magazine a few years ago.  I compared that DAC with many other top DACS and it was equal to or better than every one of them.  So, I realized that some reviewers are really biased and may be in the pocket of other competitors.

Anyway, please tone down the AR and McIntosh bashing.  Really good equipment that puts good hard working people to work. 

enjoy





minorl
1,014 posts
 

I understand and respect the issues and feelings raised here.  I do feel that there is way too much AR bashing going on here.  Unless you work in AR's Accounting department, you have no idea what it costs to research, design and manufacturer equipment.  Let alone stock older parts for repairs.

One can speculate all they want, but, that is all it is, speculation. 

I believe that AR's parent company simply (probably wasn't simple) decided to discontinue the lower level (lower level, that is funny) equipment because the market simply could not support the continued manufacturing and upkeep of those components.  They most definitely were not going to eliminate the upper end equipment.

Auto manufacturers do this all the time.  They eliminate cars that simply aren't selling like they expected them to do.

I firmly believe that if AR was making the kind of money they expected on the lower level equipment, they would not have eliminated them. 

But, the real way to voice one's concerns is to write AR letters complaining about this. That is the only way they will pay attention to your complaints.

The comparison between the most expensive back then and the most expensive now is not scientifically accurate at all.  How much was a 1965 Ferrari vs a 2016 Ferrari?  Not trying to start or continue an argument, but, company's will charge whatever they can charge and get away with. Some have business plans and goals, based on R&D costs, parts maintenance expenses, manufacturing equipment expenses (this is huge), company overheads, health care expenses for employees, taxes, expected number of pieces to be constructed, prototype development(really expensive and of which the costs must be recovered),  etc.  All of this and more is factored into the price of equipment, cars, watches, etc.

Many Engineers have found this out the hard way.  They didn't have a solid business plan, had no knowledge of business, only engineering and lost their shirts.

I don't fault AR for doing this. It just means that I won't be able to afford their equipment unless I win the lottery or wait until they show up on the used market at a much lower price.

The good thing is that AR still maintains and repairs all of their equipment, old and new.  That is really saying something. 

Try to get an older Theta DAC repaired by Theta, they will tell you with a straight face that they won't do it.  Not Theta bashing, but I have learned the hard way that certain companies won't or can't support their products later on.  AR isn't one of them.

I would bet you a lunch that Atmosphere will repair each and every unit they have built from day one.  Companies that do that are rare.

enjoy

minorl
1,014 posts
 
I was referring to Audio Research when I abbreviated it as AR.shouldnt have been difficult at all to figure out which company I was referring to. 
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