845s: To biamp or not

Thanks for the replies so far! One of my Cybers blew a cap last night due to using high-voltage tubes (I didn't know!) and so I switched to an 8W Dared 2A3 amp.... I found even THIS little thing could play quite loudly and cleanly and with tight bass through the Hyperions.

Adding the Gallo bass amp to that setup did definitely improve bass dynamics, though.

Bartokfan - I listen to very little orchestral music. I've only had the new gear a week and the first 30 hours or so was all Jazz.. I do listen to some classical and had planned on going through that next. I'll have to wait a bit to get the amp fixed now.

Tbg, the Hyperions are 90dB/W, but are a very easy load (see above). The enjoythemusic review of the Cyber 211s that was so glowing used these speakers.

-Paul

Tbg,

I want to have people tell me what I ought to like and then I'll decide if they were right or not. ;-}

I was using Full Music 845s which apparantly pull too much current. That blew the cap.

I have no plans to venture into NOS 845 territory - too little return for the $. The new Shuguang 845B are supposed to be quite nice for $100/pr.

Paul

P.S. Trivial difference but Consonance seems to rate the Cyber 211 at 16W.

Another idea is to stick with one pair of amp(s) for the (main) speakers but make more extended use of the sub I'm already using. Its crossover is now set to 40 which is where the Hyperions are just starting to roll off. I could use a pair of inline 50 or 70Hz highpass filters going into the Cyber 845s and turn up the sub's xover to fill in the gap.

Possible issues:

1) Since my linestage is passive (TVC), my source is then driving these little (FMod) inline xovers, and I don't know what that means to it.

2) The last time I tried this, with a 16W SET amp on Gallo Ref 3s, it just didn't seem to help the amp much... it wasn't able to play much louder (if any) without sounding strained.

Actually I probably just think too much.

I would never argue the point that they're better - but worth $700/pr? Not to me - not now anyway.

Why the hell is it that nobody in the 21st century can make a vacuum tube as good as one 50 years old? It's pretty darn ridiculous.

Jsadurni - That Dared ought to be PLENTY of power for 94dB speakers if that is accurate and if they do not have really nasty impedance & phase swings. I had that same amp and it drove 88dB Gallos very well indeed. If it wasn't so huge and ran so hot I would have kept it.

Ethifi - The Consonance amps are 1st rate in every way. Build quality, parts, sonics all top-notch. American stuff like this would cost $10K.

The new Hyperion 845s, however, may turn out to be killer as well.

ASL - you can read all day about them. Good sonics, good deal, for sure, but more than a few have had issues with the gear.

My experience with this 8w Dared amp is steering me well away from bi-amping. If this tiny 8W amp can produce GOOD bass in these speakers, the 845s sure can (I knew that). Well, I mean, I have played with the Gallo amp some more, and while it does tighten up the bass some it is not worth the hassle and extra load on the source. I will try it again with the 845s when I can but when in doubt, go for simplicity, I say.

Tbg, I'm very curious to hear specific shortcuts in parts or "circuit" that you see in the Cybers. The parts are all just about top-tier, if not top-tier. Ditto on the build quality. They are put together very well and the enclosures are faar from simple - the amps could be much cheaper if they were in basic boxes, I am sure.

I may agree with you about the power supply - but, with a Class A design, when you are at 100% power all the time, why build a power supply that can supply substantially more than will ever be drawn? More than the tubes they planned for could ever draw, that is. I certainly agree that it is a least a weak point that they don't allow these higher-current tubes to be used.

Maybe they didn't think of it or want to deal with the issue or maybe it was a conscious decision. Some elements of the amps - like the 5687 drivers which are not common at all, and the designers explanation for their choice - have lead me to believe that a lot of thought did go into these amps.

The fact that they are as quiet as they are also makes me think this isn't simple, basic stuff. It is not easy to make 845 amps as quiet as these are.

Tbg,

The main caps on my amps are Rubycon. I'm pretty sure *all* of them were. Maybe they are doing things differently now (mine are brand new) or maybe this is a difference between the 211 and 845 versions, though that seems unlikely.

Again, I thought chokes and oversized power supplies were more appropriate for non class A amps - but I am no expert...

My amps are indeed unusually quiet. The Art Audio Carissa may have been just as quiet but not more so. Talking about speaker hum as well as mechanical tranny hum. Absolutely none of the latter, unlike *many* SET amps...

Anyway we're both happy with them.

What are your "main" amps?

Tbg,

As I had suspected, your budget is far beyond mine. :-} I think I did very well in the price range with the Cybers. Your system is a level beyond. (Meaning your 10x expendure of cash gets you... 10% further? :-})

Paul

I agree that you can't put a "price" on subjective improvements. If $20K speakers do it for you, and you can afford em, then buy em, of course. I didn't mean to suggest it's not "worth it" - it's all relative!

Cheers,
Paul

Interesting. I find the amps to be - heavenly, as I think I said in another thread today.

I have had a lot of gear through my place in the last year. The combination of the Hyperion 938s with these amps and a transformer linestage is the best it's been - by a wide margin. It is also the most expensive setup - so this is not entirely unexpected.

Anyway, I am sure smitten with the amps. Konchlin had this one nailed. If I meet him I'll have to thank him.

Perhaps someday I'll look into upgrading the amps. I'd want one of the well-known hop-up shops to do it, though, and I don't think the ones I know work on Consonance gear (yet).

Cheers,
Paul

Hmm. The power tube gets hot but no part of the chassis really does (845 version). If your cabinet is open on the top, I think it'd be Ok.

But why hide them?