ricred1 > …buy used. I would spend 10-15K on speakers.
Blindjim > pre-owned is a virtual certainty. Though not entirely. Sounds right on the spkr apportionment. Thanks much.
Inna > ….may not be enough even if you get almost everything used.
….when buying used one may get pleasant and unpleasant surprises in terms of prices
…. when setting the budget I always think that it might go 20%-25% up, and that could make a major difference.
Blindjim > TTs are off the table, so to speak, in my particular scenario. Ie., phono pre, carts, etc.
I feel the budget is not sufficient either despite the fact no vinyl is going to be a source. The prospect now of a RTR could well be however. I’ve not researched Reel To Reel tape in decades, though I did buy one in Italy way back when. TEAC middle of the line. RTR would be an afterthought and well down the road.
Thank you.
Bsimpson > always start with the speakers that are appropriate to the room size and fit your music taste.
Blindjim > thanks so very much. Agreed. Mostly. Hmm.
Here is where I always will disagree with the spkrs first theme. Principally, the decision on how to power the system comes first. Not the spkrs you like or even want. SET amps of 12wpc or so, even those with 100wpc or less, won’t get anyone too far with demanding spkrs. No matter how well they do with some other sorts of amps.
Consequently, it’s the tuype of power and its power output first, than speaker congruent or germaine to which ever power amp type is chosen , IF you want to really optimize the spkrs performance.
Then its their overall presentation using the chosen power plant..
Thereafter, if the spkrs do indeed fit the room, that’s another factor.
Everything can be in place but the fit to room usually makes or breaks the deal, unless one is not thinking with their head but with their heart.
Same thing goes for great sounding spkrs being driven by lesser powered amp of varying tuypes.
Few people would want a four cylinder motor in a brand new ‘Vette.
Beyond that, their sound is going to migrate with any changes upstream, if indeed they are transparent enough. Change to an upscale source and the sound changes. Change the amp or amp type, again, the sound and presentation from the spkrs also changes. Same for racks, cabling, PL conds, room treats, etc. “IF’ the spkrs are revealing enough.
With respect to the power supplying them, My tact on which spkrs I’d buy is simple, they need to be as transparent as possible, present excellent imaging, produce a legitimate or believeable stage, be well heeled with the bandwidth, and not look like someone put them together after they took a couple tabs of orange Sunshine.
To save on the spkr expense, adding subs is my usual path. Despite that thought, sometimes, and quite often subs are a must.
Czarivey > Roughly $30k for records and other media and $5k for the rest of stuff.
Blindjim > Excellent!!! Better yet, Jabbar BT Head phones, an Ipad, and subscriptions to several music streams. Total cost: $500 or less + music subs. $2K if you go with half and half on USB DAC and better HPs. Thanks. lol
I feel the conundrum for myself, is deciding which way to go with the power train. Tubes or not tubes. I enjoy both, but tubes have the lead. 60/40 or 55/45. And if a SS type amp or amps are the ticket, a tube preamp will more than likely be in the chain as I’ve not yet heard a fully non tube power line that really floored me… though one or two came pretty close. Regardless, $35K would not get me either of those systems.
Personal issues force the use of self biasing amps as well, so that furthers the mystery.
This theme ought to be interesting to see how others would approach things going forward.
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david_ten > 1. I'm not sure if your question is theoretical or this is something you are actually planning?
2 Reaching out to a promising kid and funding their education at a state school would be at the top of my list.
3 BTW, great …. thoughts on the rationale not to go speaker first.
Blindjim > your insights are more than appreciated. Tanks.
RE 1. Both. The thrust is one MUST throw the wad into their “NEXT” system now that they have some exp..
2. nice. Even found money would be tuff for me to be quite that altruistic.
3. it just makes more sense. Its when you get to the amp choice where things get interesting and your options begin to diminish, depending, because by then you’re closely eyeballing speakers, if not already..
Falconquest > I would invest the $35K and then purchase components gradually with the proceeds
Blindjim > Tanks. Killer handle! with today’s interest rates and the market stumbling along in a muddy ditch, that’s gonna take a long time before anything lands in the house. Maybe if you start flipping real estate things would be more hurrie.
OK…. NEW RULE
The targeted bankroll MUST be fully used to put together either a first, or as the topic implies, the NEXT outfit. In whole, or even partially.
OK? OK.
Inna > … I would almost certainly go with used Lamm, tube pre-amp and hybrid power amp. All tube VAC would probably be my second choice. I'll just mention two other companies that would be on my list, expensive and almost nothing used: Gryphon Audio - transistor, top level, and Ypsilon - hybrid, also top level.
Studer A810 would be a great choice.
Blindjim > that’s the spirit. Thoughts are immensely appreciated. Never heard of “Ypsilon”., I’ll look into that one.
Gryphon, the more I read about it and a couple other non mainstream electronics makers, hegel, Constellation, Wells, etc., the more I’m inclined to pursue it or them.
Most have a limitation for the speakers they can optimize however.
Yeah, I do get it, 80% of the music occurs in the first 20wpc. There is however a sincere argument for the application of very ‘strong’ as well as very well ‘voiced’ amps for any given speaker, apart from horns, for example.
Its why power lines from Aeon, Llamm, Audio Note, VAC, and the like give me some pause as the speaker short list is comprised of mostly 4 ohm speakerage. Otherwise, all are decent on the Eff side at 89 or above.
Incorporating one of their preamps though sure seems a viable option down the road. Right off, I have one I like from a now obliterated system which has seen no use for far far, too long.
I’m tired of hearing it wail on its lonliness and consequent plummeting self esteem from not having a job.
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jmcgrogan2 > Instead of the speaker first approach, or the amp first approach, I suggest the combo (speaker/amp) first approach.
Go out and listen to as many combinations as possible. Take your time. Maybe even allot $5K of your $35K on travel expenses.
Blindjim > John, thanks much. I believe we are on the same path here as your input stated.
The traveling aspect for me at least, is gonna be involve and expensive. Might just eat up all of that $5K. though I do feel its both a valid factor, and worth the expenditure.
Finding and then buying the rig I hear which sounds best, is quite likely that is what will take place. Its what I should have done 13 years ago when I first joined this site. The issue as is said below, was I could not afford the rig I heard which actually nailed my jaw to the floor. Well not completely.
Although, I did try to emulate it, piece by piece. Found out, it could be resembled, but not duplicated, unless I got the same gear. I did come quite close and ,was pretty happy about it before my world stopped turning for a while.
roxy54 > I think that the OP is just asking the question hypothetically for the sake of conversation.
Blindjim > “roxy54“, thanks, but not really. Some perhaps. Afterall, forums are all about conversations anyhow.
Its supposed to be two sided. There’s the part pertinent to me as I’m tentatively in this boat. Or am trying to be. Albeit, I’ve not much faith in putting together a serious contender, soup to nuts for under $40K addressing every facet of the system adequqately.
But let’s see what someone else says… and as such this thread came to mind.
Then there’s the part that back in ’03 – ’05 I was trying to figure all of it out from scratch. Not knowing anything of nearly any manufacturer or their models. Virtually knowing nothing at all about anything, but wanting to arrange a serious audio system, so this input affects those who are in the ‘boat’ with me eyeing a new arrangement, or just beginning to consider different themes on the same road.
inna > Of course, speaker/amp unit first is great approach. Problem is that most of us cannot get everything at once, sometimes it's too expensive and at other times you just can't find it quickly enough.
I would have two very different set-ups for different music, rooms and mood.
Blindjim > inna I think I got it. I liked what Fremer said about the Greek Alias monos, but at $30K plus. Yikes.
I’m a planner. I need to see the thing and get comfortable with it, before I try to get or do, the thing.
We ain’t talking buying a bag of burgers and fries here.
Even with ‘found or unexpected money’ once its in the pocket, pulling it back out is much harder.
2 systems. Yep. In a near perfect world, two very different outfits is the ticket. Well that and a kick ass HT rig. So, really it would be 3 rigs. Lol
A turn key setup. Now theres a decent idea. For amps and speakers only, that sounds more than very do-able. For the whole system, well, we’ll see what others say on it perhaps.
I did see a blurb on Andrew Jones ELAC stand mounted monitors which showed recently and gained loads of appreciation and the whole affair ran well under $35,000.00. well under. A highly touted power line conditioner at $5k was the most expensive piece in the array.
One idea right off was a system with one primary digital source (DAC) which doubles as a preamp, a quality Integrated amp and a pair of nice easily drivable speakers, floors or stand mounts. If the INT also has a competent DAC, the end of the road is quite close.
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Inna > Gryphon integrateds do have optional dac, not sure about Ypsilon.
I have no idea of the US prices of Diablo 120 and Diablo 300, I think it's something like 9000 euros and 13000 euros respectively without dac plus VAT in Europe.
Blindjim > I saw those options. No, I don’t think the yps allows for a DAC onboard. I’ve not checked on what current prices are exactly. Just saw what was mentioned in the older reviews if I mentioned them at all. I liked what I read on the Greek offering. I’m pretty sure they’re not on the table for me especially if bought new though.
As for using an INT, once more for me, its overcoming my own prejudices that a single box can out run separates in performance… we all have our demons to deal with regularly.
Although, for this thread, it & they are exceptionally viable options depending ..on the DAC and speaker choices one would add on which brings the rig in under or on budget.
roxy54 > blindjim,
Sorry if I misunderstood, but I just went back and read your original post again, and it certainly sounds like a hypothetical. I don't see you mentioning anywhere in the post that this is something that you are actually considering doing.
Blindjim > No worries. You’re right. I purposefully avoided making it all about me initially.
originally I figured as said, the thrust of the topic might aid someone else as it asks for ‘experiences’..
Personal curiosity fueled a large part as well. Given recent iterations, new brands, models etc., I’m completely unfamiliar with, the hope was input would land here on what or how others would formulate all or parts of their outfits with the handcuffs of $35K as a learning experience and with luck, as some notes already demonstrate, some fun too.
The last line says:
What is your approach with $35K burning a hole in your pocket to acquire great sound? Can it even be done in 2017 with such a budget?”
‘it’ refers to the topic of a system in total or in part, for $35K.
Invariably at some point, we always ask each other what did this or that run you? right? Or why did you pick that one? Or simply where or from whom did you get that?
Yes, I’m considering erecting another rig which if all falls in line can well exceed the inferred financial barrier. My original plans were to do one front to back, ‘landed’, under $75K. more or less.
Talking with other friends, about the advances in Digital technologies, and associated platforms, cabling, and especially loudspeakers, felt I might be far too deep into the diminishing returns bucket and could be wasting money with such a knee jerk over the top budget.
Then came along the thought, well what actually can be done with less money in the here and now? Hence, this topic.
Find out what other’s think and learn something new very likely.
Maybe I should not have shown my hand thru the course of the feedback. I apologize if anything herein was confounding or confusing. It seemed crystal to me.
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roxy54 > I understand. I'm sure that you could have a very nice system for $35k, but if you had $75k to spend, that would surely be nice.
Blindjim > 35, 75, or possibly nuttin’. We’ll see. This misadventure will be a serious one for sure, either way.
One idea not yet posted is “Fill out your outfit using only those ‘keeper’ items already in place, adding more of the same, or upgrading them ie., speakers, source, amps, room treatments, subs, adding dedicated power lines, etc.
david_ten > It might be helpful if you re-post exactly what you are looking for, in a highly summarized form.
Blindjim > thanks. You might be right.
Trust me, I do edit my comments towards as much brevity as I feel is appropriate. Usually. Sorry.
Btw… see my recent threads. They summarize my primary personal goals en masse. 2017 Speakers, 2017 amps, 2017 cables. I could or should add one on DACs, but there seems plenty of those. Or one on the DSD ripping or acquisition thereof, for the files and the predominate themes on DSD formatting, and sampling rates 64KHz or 128KHz,
Anyhow, let’s see what happens here a while longer.
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Shadorne > If I could start over again, I would buy great sounding interconnects, a box of directional fuses and the best speaker cables I could find. Of course 35K would not nearly be enough - so I definitely wouldn’t waste money on electronics or speakers as these can be easily found in a dumpster or at a recycling center.
Blidnjim > sounds like Dum[ptsters and landfills in your area are very special. lol
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Dkarmeli > You don’t ask people who aren’t there themselves yet, they’re only guessing or wishing like you are!
Blindjim > Appreciate the input David but, I’m not guessing at all. Rather I’m asking for experiences: “had it to do all over again…” you did see that, right?
Although I’ve been involved in electronics since 1969, a member here since ’04 or so (see previous reviews and threads I generated), things change fast in ‘audioland’. Having been out of the game for the past five years, I simply wanted to know what’s up today from those who are in the mix. I’ve put together some outfits in my time, heard many many more.
Dolby Video? Streamer renderers? Tidal streaming service? Magico S series? There are cable companies now that were not even considered just as high end options five years ago. How many of the cable companies have completely changed their products since 2011 or 2012? No one was playing DSD without an SACD player when I had to withdraw. Paradigm was not a true high end option in 2011 or 2012. Exogal wasn’t even in existence. Vienna acoustics ‘Liszt’ wasn’t even built yet in 2012. Oppo has made immense strides and so has Modwright since then. Where was Endeavor? Etc.
Best check your reference.
I feel I’m ahead of the game philosophy wise and have my own preffs as to what is the most significant aspect of the audio system, arguably.
I’m certain of only one thing for sure, I do not need a dealer to make up my mind for me. I need a dealer so I can see and or hear what makes sense to me from his or her inventory, not from their ideas or opinions.
As for hearing everything in the context of your home and system, well, good luck with that dream. Its just that ‘a dream’ if one thinks they can get whatever in house to listen to before they buy it all the time with any item. That’s just sheer fantasy. Ridiculous.
And who, at some point in time or other, has not thought to themselves or mentioned to someone else, what they would do if they had a sudden chunk of change to drop into or on a system, or if they were to do it all over again?
Yeah. Probably no one but me.
Mikethehunterguy > I would get the Sanders Sound Model 10 system. Speakers, amps (2), preamp and room correction all for $22k.
… digital source, stand, decent cables, and other accessories for say, $8k.
… $5k for a turntable rig (used) if you are inclined that way.
…. music and maybe room treatments. Plus a good chair.
Blindjijm > winner winner, chicken dinner!! Excellent idea on the Sanders arrangement. Some years back I almost pulled the trigger on his amps.
‘Chair’ again, Excellent thought. No one thinks about the ‘chair’ as a part of the experience. Although, GamuT I believe offers one on their site. Thanks.
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Dcevans > I would travel to a major metropolitan area and audition speaker-amp combinations.
Blindjim > my preffs and room have been outlined above. we’re on the same wavelength on a few accounts. It seems a necessity to travel at least some. Or find those dealers that will allow for an in home demo. Spkrs by nature will be the problem children and why one has to accumulate air miles.
Nutty > Total $34,600 without tax.
Blindjim > Super!! That was very thoughtful. Very nice. My preffs and exp remove Ayre as a candidate though. For someone else? Sure not bad at all. I’m very interested in how those new Para spkrs work. I’m also surprised on how many tend to declare AQ as the cable solution du jour. Thanks.
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jollygreenaudiophile2 > Next I may actually add something to this thread that honors it's intent!
Blindjim > I can definitely relate.
In 2001 I was excited to have a Sony STV 444es 5.1 HT receiver, a pair of B&Ws, a sony 50 CD carosel, and a B&K amp and some Monster wires.
ASAP a krell KAV 250 evicted the B&K amp, the BWs were upgraded and more small BWs were added on, and an ancient Velodyne .10” sub joined the fray.
The Krell KAV pre arrived ASAP and the BWs were again upgraded.
It was 2003 – 2004 when I joined this site and its forums. Asking every stupid question known to mankind, and a few I mdae up which were not known. Well, on this planet anyhow...
Insanity loomed large and I began buying stuff I couldn’t afford with money I did not have to impress people I had not even met yet.
Older, wiser, and far more experienced with 3 reasonably nice systems constructed and then deconstructed, later, and some critical life experiences I was out of the mix, but for no very good reason, I’ve managed to pull myself right back in.
Or not. We’ll see soon enough..
It ain’t the way you walk, its where you stand.
It ain’t how you fly, its where you land.
It ain’t how you talk, its what you say.
It ain’t what you buy, its how you pay.
Watch you when you go by R.O.B. 2001 album of the same title
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4425 > I'd buy used and start with a Dartzeel CTH 8550 integrated amp
Blindjim > thanks much 4425 !! those are terrific ideas.
I’ve never heard the Dartzeel gear but have read some articles on them and they are very well received by anyone whose writing them up. Given the DS price, used would sure be the way to proceed.
The idea of an upscale Integrated amp is a real interesting approach. I’ve seen more than once, one instantly gets built in synergy from using one brand of power, and possibly source too has a really great argument for obtaining a high quality sound.
It seems immensely popular in Europe to go with integrated amps. Gryphon, Ayon, GamuT, etc., all make feature rich INTs. .
Hopefully some day I’ll hear the Revel’s in a proper room and or without Transparent wires making up the entire harness. I do dig the esthetic of the ultimas but their power needs put me off. That and what I just said about setup which made them sound sterile dry and uninvolving.
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jmcgrogan2 > Integrateds are popular in the USA too
blindjim > hey John, you are correct sir.
What we see depends mainly on what we look for. John Lubbock –
Since the 60s & 70s I’ve always seen INTs as purely a shortcut and not the best path to gain ‘the most’ performance or ‘the best’ sound. This is especially true after seeing what sort of flexibility separates can deliver in an audio system.
I’m on the road to relaxing that attitude and INTs are looking more and more attractive, here and there. The ones I’m getting transfixed on however are some pricey little meatballs! So, we’ll see.
They make great sense for putting together a rig under $35K too.
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Tape?
Crime scene or Quarantine?
Oh, but for the days of Wow… and oh yeah, flutter.
Whatever happened to the $1K Nakamici Dragon? Neatest looking deck ever.
I had the first auto reverse cassette deck Akai put out. It actually flipped the tape over physically. Well, if you put some foil sensing tape near the ends. A clunky and tedius process.
Tape was just begining to get into metal and ferrus, different biases and lengths of tapes such as the infamous 120s which actually lasted more than a few plays without stretching or breaking.
The Crown, and Dokoder Reel to Reel decks were among the top units.
I had TEAC and Akai RTR in the ‘70s. they were only 7.5, and 15 IPS. 7 inch tapes I think. Not tens.
I would record FM stations and LPs at 3 ¾ or 7.5 for hours and play them bak while at sea. There were no prerecorded RTR tapes besides classical music then.
I was agast seeing RTR playback only decks that cost more than a very nice preamp or amp at $15K or more.
RE $200 f it still had living DNA or saliva on it. It would sure depend on whose DNA too.
Reba? Lorrie? Absolutely. Probably wouldn’t even request a blood test.
I need an analog to digital converter and a cassette deck to get everthing converted into digital.
Are there any cheap but fairly decent ones around?
Much simpler times then. Hated to see the 8 track go the way of the Do Do bird. Oil well.
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Saw PF do Dark Side in ’73 at Jacksonville Coliseum across from Gator bowl. Best light and sound in a show I’ve seen then or since.
They played DSOM front to back… then jammed for another 40 mins or so.
Best part of the show?
$6 tickets
Late ’76 saw them do Animals in Paris France at a soccer stadium. They floated a huge Pig blimp over the field. This show wasn’t near the one done inside at Jax, but it was decent.
Tickets? Not sure but about 40 or 50 Francs or around $10.
I recall Atom Heart Mother as the first PF album I heard.
Obscured by clouds came next.
DSOM sold me on PF.
Still, I’d not drop $200 or more on a Master tape copy. Maybe.
As for another system idea:
7000.00 Aourender A10
7500.00 PSA BK 250 2ch hybrid amp
10000.00 Harbeth 30.2
5000.00 Rel sub
4000.00 NOS tubes, Cables & PCs
2000.00 cord 1800w conditioning
DIY amp stand or platform
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Charles > Record Cleaning Machine/Dryer: KL Audio CLN LP200 Ultrasonic Record Cleaning Machine/Dryer (New) -- $4,800.00
Power Conditioner: PS Audio Power Plant P3 (New) -- $1,500.00
Blindjim > hello Charles. Welcome back.
Nice job! Both sides of the coin too. Cool.
And under budget. Balance on LP gift certificate Mr. Sayjack. lol
Really? Record cleaning devices cost that much? Whoa. Whoa. Wow. I must rethink just what I’ve saving not having a TT!!! Whoa. Never bothered seeing the accessory list for TTs like cleaning gear. Man!
I knew something about cartridge cost, arms, platforms, phono preamps, etc.. nada on cleaning, straightening, flattening, etc. amazing.
So far, I’ve not heard an ‘active’ power line conditioner I’ve liked, or which has not adversely affected the sound quality. But, that is just me. I do enjoy the ‘passive’ conds effects ore.
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Parsons > Preamp = Atma-Sphere MP-1 3.3 $9000 (used) - Amps = Thoress 845 SET monos $4500 (used)
Blindjim > nice. Thanks.
Sorry for being so late to reply her. Irma has given me some troubles so I’ve been a bit preoccupied.
845’s? aren’t these pricey in NOS iterations?
Assuming you have heard in part or together this preamp & amps combo, could you clue me in on either’s performance? Especially that of the preamp?
Secondly, simply the Aurender A10. Again, is this a piece you’ve actually heard demonstrated individually?
Your whole approach is quite interesting.
I have an entirely different setup in mind, and all of it in the ‘as yet unheard’ just imagined or ‘dreamed’ stages. Although a bit of what you have chosen would be most welcome in mine. It’s ending cost exceeds this criteria by a good bit. Albeit, the one I listed above using the harbeth mons seems decent enough if it all had to come . in on time.
Topology aside with respect to balanced or single ended, I do feel the upstream section of pre, source and amps does carry the load mostly so having a superior preamp even with merely a DAC and likely a tuner is IMO nearly a must. Its also where I’d input tubes if tubes could be inserted in just one area.
I’m liking in my dreams, VAC sig pre II, a pair of VAC IQ 200s in mono, or the Imagination series of Constellation, or maybe even an INT from Gryphon or Yipsalon.
speakers unknown, DAC unknown too but EMM labs or something more cost effective like the Comet or yegersol, or merely the A-10. Shunyata PCs or Elrods, or Pure Audio, none of which have I heard their latest greatest vers. PLC too is up in the air, but my default without audition could be Running Springs or something similar.
I’m torn between KEF blades I & II & . VA music or Listz. Each worry me as to power needs however.
Be well.
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@inna > thanks.
Get out of my head man! lol
You’re beginning to scare me some. You are pretty close on what I’ll seek in the end. Your input is immensely appreaciated don’t think it isn’t.
The Epsilon Alias’s I feel are gonna be out of reach and yep, I saw the ones listed lately as well. I just can’t justify that much money. Yet. It would mean less investment in other areas unquestionably. Likely ‘speakers’.
Just ‘cause I might be able to wade that deep into the pool doesn’t mean I should.
These last speaker choices are, at least one of, are what I’ve been looking into lately. Kharma and Verity seem quality speakers. I’m also interested in the Devore X and or something that resides in the 92 – 95db area so < 100wpc tube amps can be used. That’s the best choice IMO. However, a great tube pre that can outrun my thor line stage and a pair of nice SS monos also are a combo I’d live with happily, given a decent enough pr of speakers synergistic to them were had. I’m not opposed to adding subs either, although I’d like to avoid it.
As for KEF and VA, I ljust like their looks. Never heard either one.
Never heard of the other two speaker options you pointed out.
FYI… I did not care much for the BAT VK 60 I had briefly. I did love the Thor EL34 30wpc monos and later the Dodd 120s also EL34 but up to 60wpc in PP.
I also loved the BAT VK500 w/BAT PK plus Thor line stage and wish I still had it and the Dodds. Running separately, not vertically. Funny how life is at times. Then it was sell these if you want something else. And I did. Or thought I did. It helped a lot having the 93db Silverlines too.
My aim in any event is to ultimately garner as much ‘they are here’ as is possible with the sonic presentation… often settling for ‘you are there’ scenarios. I found in my limited exp tubes is the answer for the former more often than SS, although as with EL34s as you said of VAC, the lower end simply is not well addressed requiring sub (s) or higher eff speakers… and maybe subs then too if limited tube power is the amp in use..
There’s no way I can get into VACs statement series. The Sig II line stage ($28K MSRP) would be the absolute limit then I’d be looking for SS power. It bugs me too the cost of the Sig Ii is where its at and not having heard it at all. There may be a shot at an audition in the area later on though.
I will go on rep only so far. After that, I’ve just gotta get some ears on things before I could justify pulling out that level of 5 digit money. I’d have to.
The Gryphon Diablo INT sure seems a fair bet as a default for one size fits all without breaking the bank. Which actually means its scaring me too much.
Do you know if the Diablo has the ability to run each amp separately? Use it with a different preamp, or use its preamp with different amps? I’ve not been able to clearly determine that aspect.
One thing for sure, this is the most interesting hunting and gathering trek for me yet. Especially given the duckets I could be dropping into it. Time will tell. Hopefully this ain’t an effort in ‘time well wasted’. I want a new house for all this crap to go into as well. So there’s that.
One thing for sure is I am not a card carrying certifiable high res detail oriented freak. Organic and natural is always the target for me.
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@inna
would you mind PM me?
Sorry I’ve been busy with the fallout left by Irma. Been cutting off the trees it left planted onto my roof. Whew! Thus far no tremendous devastation. All seems easily mendable. The amount of tree debris is astonishing. It could well have been disasterous. The clean up will still take a while!
I’ve found thus far, better upstream doesn’t dictate top level speakers are required. Merely very capable and honest ones yield great results once the signal path is well heeled in advance of them.
RE Lamm tube preamp and hybrid power amps
Yeah. Saw that constant on biz too. My Thor line stage is similar. Left on muted it plays better later on and or the next day. It migrates from SET-ish to more agile and insightful sitting there just under power. Not passing signal.
I must have missed something as I’ve not realized Lamm produces hybrid amps. Thought they were SET 20wpc or so amps only. Hmmm.
I’ve heard too, their sound is ‘dry’.
A big draw back for me with Lamm is the biasing. Can’t see well enough to do it myself. That’s a problem. It was convoluted doing it with the Dodd monos. Sight is worsening. True too, there’s simply too many options for me to bother with manual biasing going forward as things will only deteriorate further with time.
RE Ypsilon/Kharma match?
If the Kharmas are NOT a polite or veiled sounding system that could be a great arrangement.
RE Ypsalon – Gryphon – constellation, VAC – haegel – Master Sound (d’agostino) and even PSA hybrids (depending)
I’ve given separates and upscale INTsa considerable bit of rumination. It seems a great idea so long as one loves the house sound of the makers kit, ie., Master, Gryphon, Ypsalon, etc.
The point I have to keep in mind (which is an easy task to forget) that cost is something of an object here, and that is the “point of diminishing returns” bridge. I’d not wish to cross it chasing mere percentiles of barely noticeable gains. Meaning getting into amps or speakers above $15 - 20K MSRP is littered with questions IMO.
Having spoken but briefly with Kevin Hayes whose outfit is not far from me, I like his notions on the sound he tries to or does, achieve with his amps. what he ‘trickles’ down into his entry level kit is above many others mid level or higher choices IMHO. Something in me wants to experience that sound. The sole caveat is I’m likely not able to play in his sandbox given his MSRPs. Well, not 100% anyhow. $42K and in mylocation , PLUS tax is ‘spensive fare for a pre amp and amp! just the taxes would be 3K if bought directly from VAC!
Regardless, I’m sold on putting most $$$ of the initial investment fairly equally into the source, control, power, setup, room and then speakers. Usually in that order. Give or take a bit here or there. Its all a juggling act anyhow.
Ypsalon has released an INT. and upgrades for their Alias monos.
Another thought exists too that very likely I’l miss the bullseye with the first volley. Hopefully it will be a matter of wires, not gearSo exchanging and or upgrading speakers if needed, is a definite do agle thing later. If I’m not married to them at the onset due to their investment. $20K, $25K, $30K or more.
Me thinks once one gets into the clouds of audio selling off $15K to $30K gear is not the speedy hot bed of transactions one might believe it really is. Of course too, A’gon ain’t the only match in the box to light those fires either.
It does however mean mistakes there can be extremely costly.
The main issue I see in my deal is first getting resolving speakers in house. Not expensive, or destination sorts, but very honest capable ones which will enable me to make better decisions about the rest of the rig. That logic persists quite plainly as the likely first step. The caveat then is not to try compensating the system to fit to them. Sounds dangerous doesn’t it? It does knowing myself better of late. It would be easy to for them to trickle down into another system elsewhere in the home.
As you said to seriously audition the gear at these prices, and I certainly agree, if I hear this or that somewhere that kills, well then, all other notions, ideas, themes and theories I have are out the window! lol
I’m not all about the chase. I’m more, ‘are we there yet’?
Perfect is not the goal. Great and or incredible? Well, those are the obvious objectives. I’d happily settle too for merely Wow! Whatever that means.
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