15" vs 18" subwoofer - which to buy?


If price and room space/aesthetics were not a big issue, is there any reason to get a 15" subwoofer over an 18" one? My main issue is not disturbing the neighbors too much. I'm confused about the difference between a 15" and 18" subwoofer. I want to get the best sound quality possible for low-to-medium volume use.

I've heard that an 18" subwoofer can be played at low decibels and provide good bass resolution and fullness of sound, while to achieve the same volume with a 15" subwoofer, the power has to be much higher. So for any given sound volume, the main difference is in distortion- and higher distortion sound may be more obtrusive. Is this true? it seems counterintuitive that an 18" subwoofer could be better for neighbors than a 15" subwoofer.

However, I compared a B&W800 (12") vs B&W850 (15"). I listened from the other side of the store wall (not as thick as my apt), and at minimum levels which I found satisfying for HT, I found the 12" more obvious and 'boomy' sounding while the 18" produced a more subtle (though actually more powerful), lower frequency vibration, like a very low-level rumbling background earthquake. The 15" subwoofer did seem more of a disturbance because of it's 'obvious' sound. However, I worry that an 18" won't even start producing quality sound until a certain volume that was much higher than a 15", and consequently potentially more disruptive for neighbors. Is this true? What is the relationship between subwoofer size, low sound volume, and subjective listening experience?

Unfortunately, it will be difficult to get an opportunity to hear both the DD-15 and DD-18 which I am considering, so I hope someone can help out here.
no_slouch

Showing 3 responses by porschecab

I have had alot of experience with both, DD-15/DD-18 and ended up with the DD-18s each time.

I ALWAYS run subs in pairs. Aerial SW-12s, Velodyne F-1800R's, HGS-18's, HGS-18II's, DD-12's, DD-15's, and DD-18's. I had a pair of DD-18s, sold them to go back to the Aerial SW-12s.

Now, these are the only subs I like personally. The SW-12s did better at all volumes/material than did the HGS series of subs. I preferred the 15s over the 18s from the HGS series, as the 18s didn't have enough power to keep up with the driver, so it was slow and needed volume/room to 'catch up' to my mains, but was quickly overpowering even set at about 2. Then the DD series emerged. Again, I got into the 18's, and was shocked at the presence at low to mid level volumes and the spectrum they can cover. I know Velo told me they increased the output by 2DB, which normally isn't a big deal, but in subs it is a HUGE deal, and mid level volume is where I noticed it most. No, wait, maybe that was because I was finally able to dial in the room with the built in spectrum analyzer?
No wait, maybe it was the increased servo speed of the DD versus the HGS? No wait maybe the spectrum? No wait, maybe..........anyway, you get my view.

The change between the HGS and DD was a huge step. Now, 15 versus 18s? I doubt VERY much at normal / moderate listening levels anyone is to notice differences between the 15's and 18's. Anyone unless trained professionals with perfect rooms and ears. As you probably know, the room will change the sound more than anything else, so probably no reason to get hung up on the sound differences between these two at normal levels. My bet is they will act / sound the same.

The big differences kick in as the volume levels increase and you start to walk away from the mid-low bass of the 15s and start getting into the quick, deep push of an 18. There is nothing, imo, like a correctly powered 18" sub driver, actually 2, in a system for 2 channel. Just incredible. I have someone that has a full scale ORGAN (like 100ft tall, 200ft wide) that bought 2 DD-18s for reproduction of sound in the hall! And home theater, well, suffice it to say, if it is good for 2 channel, it is great for theater. I don't think there is a better sub for 2 channel or theater, low to high levels of output as the DD-18s. I definitely feel bass is directional, despite what many others say, and in stereo, dialed / spectrumed (is this a word?) in there is no better.

Alot of folks in the 18" game look into Bag End. They never had enough power for my liking, which led to weak/anemic tonal control of the driver. I am not a huge fan of ported subs, as the Aerial SW-12s are. The had to be to achieve volume but the mass air push on my legs during huge passages was quite annoying despite their nice presence at normal levels. Servo's of the DD series are so much more advanced than those of the HGS series (alot of hum, buzz, etc.) and seem to get bass right.

Now, again, this is all my experiences, my opinions, and you know what they all say about opinions? Like asshol_s, everybody has one. But, that being said, I am not a dealer, I don't 'represent' any lines, have no affiliates, and have had the ability to try / demo many subs (powered and not - passive like Snell 18's, JBL 18's, and some older Kinergetics) and have landed 100% into the DD line. If space (physically) isn't an issue, go 18's, you will not be disappointed!

For what is it worth, I am running 2 pair of JBL K2S9800SEs, matching center, Levinson 33's, Meridian 861/800 for theater, and the Conrad Johnson Premier 8A's and the CJ ART in 2 channel. Oh yeah, a trio of DD-18s, stereo pair in front, single in back (for theater - as if really needed).

Dan
Dialing in a pair of subs is quite tough, and I have not been able to figure it out quite yet. In some respects, using a single, dialed in correctly can be much more accurate than two, not so dialed in!

I run a pair of DD-18s and they seem to be pretty close to dialed. Not being a professional, I am sure there is alot of room (sorry for the pun) for correction. I will be trying to locate a JBL Synthesis professional to EQ my room with the SDEC, which should help a bit.

The DD-12 are incredible. I know several folks that run electrostats that use the DD-12. Slouch? Well, I suppose that depends on who/what you compare it to. The DD-15 and DD-18, for output levels and impact, sure. To a midfi levels of Paradigm, Sunfire (sorry guys, it doesn't compare, imo) and just about every B&W sub (I do like the older ASW-800) The DD-12 rips for 2 channel and HT.

Now, onto Aerial. I have owned / lived with Aerial SW-12 subs at least three times. Each time I used a pair as I have not felt a single can give me what the Velodyne subs can, so I ran them in pairs. The SW-12 is one of the best 3-4 subs I have had experience with. (Velo, Aerial, Rel, ATC, Earthquake (nice sleeeper here), Talon, and the others like Sunfire, Paradigm, Energy, HSU, M&K, etc)

My issue with the SW-12s are that in large passages (be it an organ or explosion) the excursion of the 11.7" driver is so much that the ports BLOW ME. On hot summer nights, it is a nice feeling, but the port shaffing noise and air does bother me. Now, at any other time, I love, love, love the Aerial. If they made an SW-15 or SW-18 I would be in as THE SUB!

One gets alot with the DD series subs. Ability to dial them in, they are incredibly quick, output levels unmatched, and their shape is much more appealing (though, in my case, 18's in any cabinet are imposing) than the older HGS series.

I am having Sound Anchors make the first Aerial SW-12 like stand for a DD-18 so they will have the platform in about 2-3 weeks. I will set the DD-18s on the stand and place a very heavy piece of custom black granite on the tops. This is the single largest improvement I have heard with subs. Placing something very heavy on top. Not sure why, but it has made a nice addition, appearance improved as well and when my cats use the top as a catapult, it doesn't ruin the finish (sm!).

Dan
Truthseeker -

Funny comment:

"My gosh, I had to buy TWO gas masks for all the BS I smell in this thread. Talk of stereo bass, need for numerous 18" subs, small Velodynes as toys. The word NEWBIE is written all over this thread"

Kinda feel that is pointed directly at me since I am the one commenting on using a pair of DD-18s. You picked Velodyne why? You picked a DD-12 and then a DD-15, why?
You picked your main speakers, why? You picked you preamp, why? You picked you cables, why? You picked your transport, why? You picked your power conditioning, why?
I will give you the simple answer: Because you prefered it over another. This is no different than why I personally run a pair of DD-18s.

So many folks say bass is non-directional. Right. While this may be true below a certain point, 20hZ or whatever it is, a sub going from 60hZ (or whatever one has it crossed to) to 20hZ or less is directional and I personally can hear poiint out where it is coming from. Now, if I had a 30,000 sq ft auditorium, there is a much great chance of not being able to do so. Unfortunately, such a thing here in CA is about +$20M, albeit not much more than a home!

When properly set up and calibrated a pair will always sound better than a single.

Dan