Hi, Gang,
Sorry it's taken me such a long time to give you guys an update on my speaker adventures. I've been ridiculously busy at work and with family responsibilities...
I'm finding myself in what you might call a bit of a conundrum these days. On the one hand, with my new phono preamp up and running, I'm having a ball digging back into the miles and miles of vinyl that I can finally play again. It still amazes me how wonderful those black discs can sound.
On the other hand, speaker wise, I'm in a bit of a no man's land at this point...
Both the Ohms and the Totems can make amazing music, that's for sure. What I'm not sure about is what I'm hearing, and although I know that ultimately, I'm the one who has to enjoy and live with the system, I find myself wishing that one of you guys lived in my neighborhood so we could get together and tweak this thing!
Here's the thing: the Totems seem to have the edge over the Ohms when it comes to a sense of detail or transparency. I just find myself noticing details in the music, with some tracks, that are getting lost or muffled when I am listening to the Ohms. Now, the question is: is what I am hearing really "transparency," or is it more like an upper frequency tilt in the Totems? And are the Ohms, by nature, more "neutral?" I have read in some reviews that in the Totems are a bit "hot" out of the box, but that this "sizzle" settles down as they break in.
In this regard, I am also not sure whether I am hearing all of the midrange clarity that the Ohms are capable of delivering. I'm not sure exactly how many hours of playing time they have on them -- I haven't been clocking it -- but I'm guessing it's not much more than 25 hours or so. So, by any measure, the Ohms should still have some opening up to do, correct? By the way, I think I read one person post in Audio Review.com that Micro Walsh Talls sounded as if they were playing from under a pillow until they opened up, at which point, they revealed all kinds of additional detail.
The other thing I'm not sure about is whether I have either set of speakers optimally placed for imaging purposes. On some source material, the Totems present a very "etched" or precise sense of each voice or instrument in space. By contrast, at least as I have them placed currently, the placement of instruments with the Ohms can sound a bit more vague, for lack of a better term. As I've been switching the speakers in and out, I have used some pieces of tape on the floor to mark what has seemed to me to be the optimized position for each different set of speakers, otherwise, obviously, I'm not comparing apples with apples. But, again, I wish I had one of you with an experienced set of ears to help me with this task of speaker placement.
I would like to add, that, in general, the Ohms present a "fuller" or "meatier" sound, especially in the bass note regions.
Interested in your thoughts and advice... |
Petewhitley,
Good question... I'm wondering the same thing. |
Mapman,
Thanks for the good wishes.
And yes, I saw those Micro's, too. Rosewood finish, very pretty! |
Well, I made a decision yesterday and put the Totem Arro's up on eBay! Guess I'm an Ohm fanboy now, officially. ;-) |
"Corny and spectacular!"
I love that! :-) |
Sounds like you made a great choice, then. And I can attest that the black looks very sharp. Do let us all know how you like them! |
Deadlyvj,
It's not a thick metallic grille, but more of a thin wire mesh material with what looks like some sort of foam liner. And it's supposed to be acoustically transparent. |
Martykl,
Thanks! And thanks for your Ohm vs. Maggies analysis in that other thread. Very interesting and thoughtful. |
Sadly, I've had very little time to listen to music lately. :-(
But hopefully my schedule will be opening up soon and I'll have more reports from the field. :-) |
Parasound,
Have you received your Micro Walsh Talls yet? How are they working out? |
End of an era here, sort of. Boxed up and shipped the Micro Walsh Tall's back to Ohm today. It's me and the 100's from now on! |
That's all consistent with what I've heard. It was down to the Ohm's or the Totem Arro's when I bought my new speakers a couple of months ago. The Arro's are still breaking in, admittedly, and I wouldn't say I'm feeling "buyer's remorse," but I now kind of wish I'd tried the Ohm's first. |
Tvad,
Good point about buying used. Actually, that was my original intent, but to maximize WAF I needed the Arros in black and couldn't find anybody selling that color on A'gon. I am tempted to do what you say and bring the Ohm's in for the audition.
Stivervii,
How as your experience returning them to Ohm? Any hassles? And can you explain what you mean by "parlor tricks" and "not very revealing?" |
Jaybo,
What John Potis, the reviewer at 6moons.com, said that really intrigued me is his statement that, "I find [the Micro Walsh Talls] unequivocally enjoyable, without any major nits to pick that would qualify my enjoyment."
So that's why I'm interested in trying them out. That and the soundstaging. |
When I first spoke to John at Ohm, he said they could go as little as 6" to 10" off the rear wall, but that would of course depend on the rest of the room. My room is only around 15' by 12'. |
Zkzpb8,
Helpful comments, thanks!
I've heard these speakers referred to several times as "non-fatiguing," and I wonder what that means. Do you feel that they have a "mellow" or "warm" coloration, or is it that they are well controlled and don't get harsh when played loud, or something else? |
Jaybo,
I understand the huge sweet spot and the huge soundstage, but what about imaging, i.e., placing instruments in space? It's hard to imagine this given that sound is bouncing all over the room. |
Zkzpb8,
Is this the remaster of the 1958 concert... the one made from two blended master tapes? I'm trying to locate the right one on Amazon. Thanks! |
Mapman,
You're right about the footprint. The Arro's are 5 inches wide and 7 inches deep. The Micro Tall's are 6 x 6 inches. |
Cool, Peter_s! I look forward to trading impressions here! |
My MWT's should be arriving Monday... they shipped from Ohm on Thursday. |
Peter_s,
When are you expecting yours? |
Mine are black. They are scheduled to arrive today, but my office is closed, so I won't get 'em till tomorrow.
I think they finish these things to order, and that black is popular enough to keep a few in stock.
I wonder, in this economy, how many speakers they're shipping a month, these days?... |
Well, guys,
I cannot believe I did this, but I actually ordered a pair of Micro Walsh Tall's today! :-D The description of these things by the people who have and love them is just too good to pass up.
The Arro's are still breaking in, and they're clearly very fine speakers, but I'm bugged by the fact that the sweet spot is so narrow in my listening room... it's just not relaxing to have such a narrow physical window for the best sound... it's actually a little stressful, which totally negates the point of having a good system. I just want to be able to relax and enjoy my music. Anyway, I'm still tweaking the position of the Arro's and trying to dial them in (yesterday I tilted them backward a few degrees to try to get the tweeter height aligned properly)...
I ought to have the Ohm's in a week or so... I'm getting them in black for the "WAF." ;-)
If the Ohm's float my boat, I'll just bite the bullet and put the Arro's up here on A'gon. I'm going to take a hit on resale value if that happens, but I'll chalk it up to a learning experience. And if I decide to stick with the Arros, I'll return the Ohm's.
Thanks to everybody for their help... I'll report back. |
Thanks for your support, guys. Sometimes Audiogon feels like some kind of 12-Step group for people with audio dependency. ;-) |
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By the way, how have you folks found the fit and finish on the Ohms to be. I've heard they're not the greatest in that department. |
Yeah... the fit and finish on the Totems is really tight as a drum... "furniture grade," as they say. I don't care that much so long as they're not flat out awful looking... just hoping they pass muster with my significant other. :-) |
Well, the speakers arrived today. I haven't had the chance to open them yet, but man, you wouldn't believe how badly UPS mangled one of the boxes. I called John at Ohm right away, and he said that the speakers are double boxed deliberately to handle what UPS dishes out. Yikes!
By the way, I had them shipped to my office so that somebody would be there to sign for them. Well, they arrived after closing time, and UPS LEFT THESE TWO HUGE BOXES SITTING OUTSIDE OUR BUILDING ON THE FRONT STEP! Yowie! |
|
Unboxed the smashed carton this morning and the speaker inside looks fine. I will write back when I've had the chance to actually hook them up and listen to them... should be around the weekend. |
Got to listen to them for about 20 minutes today before having to get into work. Sweet spot is huge, indeed. I'm sure they're not placed optimally, yet. Not enough time for tweaking. I must say that it's a pleasure having those nice flat plinths and not having to mess with getting floor spikes leveled!
Presentation is very different than the Totems...
Played a few cuts from Steely Dan's "2 Against Nature." They "filled the room," that's the best description I can give in shorthand. I need to listen more.
Bass is strong and copious and well defined. Not yet sure what distance from back wall is optimum in this regard...
Played a few minutes of the "Princess Monononoke" soundtrack. The opening drum crashes were HUGE. The orchestra sounded like an orchestra... not like "a stereo reproducing an orchestra." I think these things may smoke the Totems for orchestral music. :-)
I need more time with these things...
More to come...
By the way, for you guys who already have the MWT's, what's a good starting point for messing with positioning? Separation of speakers equal to distance to listening position, or what? And how far off the back wall? And did yours come with any kind of instruction sheet? Mine didn't. |
Jaybo,thanks for that.
Mapman, I appreciate the advice.
I am nearing the end of a very, very busy time at work and look forward to getting to spend lots of time with the Ohm's during an upcoming stay-at-home vacation! I'll report back as I have impressions to share. |
By the way, they do look sharp in black, and the fit and finish is pretty good. :-) |
Zkzpb8,
Thanks! And does anybody know what the recommended break-in period on these puppies is? The review on Six Moons.com seem to imply that it was something like 40 hours... |
Everybody,
I had a little more time to listen to them yesterday. (Every time I post here, I become aware how pathetically busy my life is these days...)
I guess I'll cut to the chase and say that after about half an hour listening to a number of different cuts from various CDs, I nearly picked up the phone and called John Ohm to tell him how thrilled I was...
Okay, granted that the Totems were not nearly broken in, but I have to say that the bass response on the Micro-Walsh Talls absolutely puts the Totems to shame. The bass on the Walshes is not only far more powerful, but it also impresses me as being more fleshed out and more articulate than on the Totems. For example, the title cut on Donald Fagen's most recent solo CD, "Morph the Cat," opens with a very deep and very powerful solo line on the electric bass. On the Totems, the the bass is "there," but it sounds rather anemic and homogenized. On the Ohm's, not only is the base much "fatter," but you can also hear more than the notes themselves: you can hear the texture of the notes... you can hear the notes are coming from a stringed instrument which is being plucked. It's wonderful!
I've already mentioned, in a previous post, how impressive the opening Japanese drum crashes are on the Princess Mononoke film soundtrack are. I guess what makes them so impressive is not just, at lease perceptually, how deep the day seems to go, but that these little tower speakers are really capable of "moving some air."
The other thing I noticed |
Everybody,
I had a little more time to listen to them yesterday. (Every time I post here, I become aware how pathetically busy my life is these days...)
I guess I'll cut to the chase and say that after about half an hour listening to a number of different cuts from various CDs, I nearly picked up the phone and called John Ohm to tell him how thrilled I was...
Okay, granted that the Totems were not nearly broken in, but I have to say that the bass response on the Micro-Walsh Talls absolutely puts the Totems to shame. The bass on the Walshes is not only far more powerful, but it also impresses me as being more fleshed out and more articulate than on the Totems. For example, the title cut on Donald Fagen's most recent solo CD, "Morph the Cat," opens with a very deep and very powerful solo line on the electric bass. On the Totems, the the bass is "there," but it sounds rather anemic and homogenized. On the Ohm's, not only is the base much "fatter," but you can also hear more than the notes themselves: you can hear the texture of the notes... you can hear the notes are coming from a stringed instrument which is being plucked. It's wonderful!
I've already mentioned, in a previous post, how impressive the opening Japanese drum crashes are on the Princess Mononoke film soundtrack are. I guess what makes them so impressive is not just, at lease perceptually, how deep the day seems to go, but that these little tower speakers are really capable of "moving some air."
The other thing I noticed is how amazing the speakers are at imparting a sense of depth and presence when presenting well recorded live recordings.
For example, I was listening to a fairly new, James Taylor live CD called "One-Man Band." It was recorded in an old, historic theater somewhere in the Berkshires of Massachusetts.
It's really difficult to describe just how thrillingly these little speakers reproduce the sense that you are sitting in that theater, the performers arrayed in front of you on a stage. Yes, James Taylor's voice does sound miked, but far from being offensive, is actually pretty stunning, because it sounds the way a concert public address system would sound if you were sitting somewhere out in the audience. Furthermore, on one gorgeous performance, "My Traveling Star," Taylor is accompanied by a large choral group, singing harmonies. The sense, again, the members of the chorus standing mid-stage, with "air" and proper acoustic space surrounding them |
Everybody,
I had a little more time to listen to them yesterday. (Every time I post here, I become aware how pathetically busy my life is these days...)
I guess I'll cut to the chase and say that after about half an hour listening to a number of different cuts from various CDs, I nearly picked up the phone and called John Ohm to tell him how thrilled I was...
Okay, granted that the Totems were not nearly broken in, but I have to say that the bass response on the Micro-Walsh Talls absolutely puts the Totems to shame. The bass on the Walshes is not only far more robust, but it also impresses me as being more fleshed out and more articulate than on the Totems. For example, the title cut on Donald Fagen's most recent solo CD, "Morph the Cat," opens with a very deep and very powerful solo line on the electric bass. On the Totems, the the bass is "there," but it sounds rather anemic and homogenized. On the Ohm's, not only is the bass much "fatter," but you can also hear more than the notes themselves: you can hear the texture of the notes... you can hear that the notes are coming from a stringed instrument which is being plucked. It's wonderful!
I've already mentioned, in a previous post, how impressive the opening Japanese drum crashes on the Princess Mononoke film soundtrack are. I guess what makes them so impressive is not just, at least perceptually, how deep the bass seems to go, but that these little tower speakers are really capable of "moving some air."
The other thing I noticed is how amazing the speakers are at imparting a sense of depth and presence when presenting well recorded live recordings.
For example, I was listening to a fairly new, James Taylor live CD called "One-Man Band." It was recorded in an old, historic theater somewhere in the Berkshires of Massachusetts.
It's really difficult to describe just how thrillingly these little speakers reproduce the sense that you are sitting in that theater, the performers arrayed in front of you on a stage. Yes, James Taylor's voice does sound miked, but far from being offensive, is actually pretty stunning, because it sounds the way a concert public address system would sound if you were sitting somewhere out in the audience. Furthermore, on one gorgeous performance, "My Traveling Star," Taylor is accompanied by a large choral group, singing harmonies. The sense, again, of the members of the chorus standing mid-stage, with "air" and proper acoustic space surrounding them, is... well, it's "thrilling..." I just can't think of a better way to describe it.
I know this sounds rather trite, but the speakers make me want to take out all my old digital and final sources and "rediscover" them.
So far, in any case, I am a very happy camper.
I will continue to log my impressions as I have more time to listen. |
Uh-oh, having some Web browser problems here. Sorry for the multiple versions of the post. |
Thanks, Mapman. I'm not a beer drinker, really, but this "virtual Bud's" for you, since you were the one who convinced me to try these puppies to begin with. |
Mapman,
Thanks. I was playing around with the speakers earlier today and tried moving them further apart (as close as I can get in my room to the equilateral triangle) and six inches or so closer to the rear wall.
KABOOM!
Suddenly, the soundstage locked in and got huge... the room is full of sound now, and the imaging is precise. Thrilling, just thrilling! :-D |
Mapman,
Re: your question about imaging. I'm not sure... I'm still getting used to the presentation and I'm still not certain that I have them placed optimally... I wish I had someone to help me with this!
My room is basically a 15 x 12 foot rectangle with an 8 foot ceiling. The floors are hardwood, but there are "puffy" shades on all the windows, and there a large day bed with soft linens and pillows in the listening position on the wall opposite the speakers.
The one oddity of the room is that there's a rectangular "appendage" to the left of the left speaker. The result is that the right speaker is three feet from the side wall to the right, but the left speaker is probably five feet from the left wall, which is in the little "side pocket" of the room.
Imaging, in terms of stage depth, is wonderful. Some recordings so far definitely "obliterate the back wall." I heard percussion instruments on Buena Vista Social Club today that sounded many feet back behind the rear wall. And on the second track, you definitely heard a group of "embodied" singers singing the harmonies of the chorus.
So I guess that imaging is quite solid... but I'm still not convinced that I've got the placement quite optimized. |
I am running the micros with a Unison Unico, which is an 80 watt solid state / tube hybrid integrated amp. it seems to drive them effortlessly. |
The more I play the Ohm's the more I'm impressed with the seamlessness of the sound... must be the large frequency range covered by that Walsh driver. And the midrange... wow! Female voices sound stunning.
I will also say with pleasure that there's not a hint of glare or harshness here... these speakers sound like music, not like "hi-fi."
I called John at Ohm today and thanked him, and told him how delighted I am with the MWT's. He asked me how I thought they compared with the Arro, and I described the increased bass authority and texture, the sense of air and space around the instruments, the depth of the soundstage (the back wall "disappearing") and so on.
He said that the MWT's take between 60 and 100 hours to fully break in, and that they'll keep sounding better. He said that bass extension and midrange sweetness will improve, while the highs should remain fairly well the same.
He also said that the biggest mistake people make with the Ohm's is pulling them too far off the back wall. He was really appreciative of my call. |
Aktchi,
Frankly, I was hoping I'd get a little more on eBay than on A'gon. I paid over $1400, with tax, for the pair, including both speaker grilles (which are an extra cost item for the Totem's) and little metal "saucers" for the spikes to sit in to protect hardwood floors. With Arro's going for what looks like an average of $800 here on A'gon, I'll take a bath on those speakers when I sell them, and they've got less than 10 hours of time on them. So yes, they're up on eBay, and I'm hoping that the fact that they include the speakers, grilles and free shipping to the continental US brings in a good price. :-) If that fails, I'll go with A'gon next. ;-) |
Aktchi, Tvad,
I thoroughly understand your point, and it's certainly something that I thought about. Did I really give the arrow a fair shake?
Here's the thing: the Haro was kind of stressing me out. If I sat in exactly the right spot and had my head, within a few inches, in exactly the right spot, then I could begin to hear what they are capable of doing. But you know, although I used to listen to music that way when I first got into high-end audio back in the mid-19 80s (move the left speaker a quarter of an inch one way, tell in the right speaker 10° the other way...) I don't listen to music that way anymore. I just want to enjoy it. That doesn't mean that I have totally lost touch with my geek side: next week, I'm going to begin to build Bobble head Seduction phono pre-amp kit! And granted, I am sure that they would continue to improve over time.
But after playing with the Haro (even in 10 hours of listing, you can do quite a bit of futzing around) and even after realizing that tilting the speakers back a few degrees improved their sound, I hit my "life's too short for this" threshold.
I am married and have a small child. Furthermore, my listening room is right below my wife's home office. And I have a full-time job. The result of all of this is that my listening time |
Aktchi, Tvad,
I thoroughly understand your point, and it's certainly something that I thought about. Did I really give the Arro's a fair shake?
Here's the thing: the Arro was kind of stressing me out. If I sat in exactly the right spot and had my head, within a few inches, in exactly the right spot, then I could begin to hear what they are capable of doing. But you know, although I used to listen to music that way when I first got into high-end audio back in the mid-1980s (move the left speaker a quarter of an inch one way, toe in the right speaker 10° the other way...) I don't listen to music that way anymore. I just want to enjoy it. That doesn't mean that I have totally lost touch with my geek side: next week, I'm going to begin to build Bottlehead Seduction phono pre-amp kit! And granted, I am sure that the Totems would continue to improve over time.
But after playing with the Arro (even in 10 hours of listening, you can do quite a bit of futzing around) and even after realizing that tilting the speakers back a few degrees improved their sound, I hit my "life's too short for this" threshold.
I am married and have a small child. Furthermore, my listening room is right below my wife's home office. And I have a full-time job. The result of all of this is that my listening time is limited and very precious, and the thought of how long it would actually take me to get to a hundred hours of usage on those speakers so that I could THEN begin to make a serious comparison with the Ohm's, is just overwhelming. In the limited time that I have to listen to music, I want to be relaxing and enjoying music, and not involved in a cognitive exercise of evaluating one speaker against another.
The thing is,the Ohm Micro Walsh Talls, with a little bit of work positioning the speakers optimally, sound much more pleasing to me "out-of-the-box" than did the Totems, and I have no reason to doubt the the MWT's will continue to improve with time. I find their presentation so seductive and pleasing that they make the want to sit down and listen to music for hours on end, without having to do a lot of futzing positioning and so forth.
So yes, I understand that I may have flushed a few hundred dollars down the toilet, but it's one of those "chalk it up to experience" things. Somebody else will get a good break on the Totem, and, good for them! |
Please ignore the first of the two duplicate posts, immediately above. Dragon NaturallySpeaking isn't playing well my web browser at the moment. :-( |
Well, if any of you guys want to give my Arro's a good home, let me know. :-P |
Yeah, well I probably was getting a little defensive there.
It'll be interesting to see if the Arro's sell or not. If they don't, maybe I will break them in some more and see again how they stack up against the Ohm's
I do have to say that I can't imagine the Arro's besting the Ohm's in the soundstage dept. I thew some Diana Krall on the CD player today and it was spooky how beautifully the Ohm's rendered a "holographic" sense of things. :-) The same pieces on the Arro's, if memory serves, sounded flat by comparison... |
