Shocked removed spikes, used blue tack, what other non spike footer

Getting back to sound reproduction if any are still interested:

As I’ve oft described, performance of cones is also a function of Hardness. Brass for example is a relatively soft metal, and carbon fiber is a relatively soft material, whereas tempered steel and NASA grade ceramics rank very high on the Mohs Hardness scale - and are audibly superior to softer materials like brass.

We disagree with this claim.

First, NASA does NOT grade, advertise, recommend nor receive any compensation for sponsorships of any material - whatsoever. NASA Grade Ceramics is a wishful analogy or marketing line of some kind that only exists in the mind of a person who once was employed there.

Does this work for anyone? - Saxophones, trumpets, tubas, bones and all musical instruments made or contain brass alloys in their manufacture should use NASA grade brasses.

The ‘harder the better’ distraction that is repeated all too often is one  “opinion” and has been disproven multiple times over. In some cases, hard materials reproduce the sonic effects associated with hard or edgy, brittle sonic and that is not a desirable result for most listeners.

Disclaimer: We’ve never heard or prototyped an audio cone made of diamond, gold, silver, platinum,glass, minerals or tin so cannot comment on those materials.

We have built using aluminums, all types of steels, titanium, various species of woods along with a few varieties of metal alloys used in the manufacture of modern day defensive armors (extremely hard/dense materials). The results in each case were not good for listening however to be fair, we applied known successful versions of our geometry to cut and test the prototypes so there is a slight possibility the shapes lessened the performance or did not match well with the materials damping factors.

Information for the DIY and Audio Designers:

All metal and ceramic alloys have different damping factors that affect the attack, sustain and decay characteristics of sound. These factors are a part of material science therefore it is very important to analyze, document, reference and learn how materials react to resonance formed from vibrations when designing anything related to audio reproduction.

Another Crucial Element Related to ‘any’ Vibration Device:

The overall function of cones (Not including $0.45 cent spikes), spheres, pucks or springs heavily relies on the mass and chemistry makeup of the two surface materials coming in contact with both the top and the base area of the device. These outlying surfaces, their chemistry makeup and mass greatly influence the functionality and sonic performance of any device.

Spring rates should be selected based on load.

Our primary issue with springs was weight limitations where you require a spring for this weight and another for that and every time you get heavier or lighter gear one has to match up the sonic result to or with a mass to spring ratio.

I can only speak for Star products where they are sensitive enough to function with an ounce of weight or up to one ton of mass so there is no concern over what type of equipment you place onto them. Not having to deal with equipment weight is a huge benefit when adapting a technology that serves multiple applications.

Since we are the company in audio with the most years of experience modeling, prototyping and manufacturing conical devices and are developing a newfound vibration technology, we remain extremely confident and have proven that our choice of brass and its chemical makeup delivers the function and sonic results essential for industry and product expansion.

We sampled, tested and listened to many materials including many brasses along with twenty-five different varieties of steels; applied multiple geometries to a host of prototypes that failed or had shortcomings related to limiting frequency response. The cost over time was extensive and most did not make the grade for our research and development projects, especially when it came down to the ‘all’ important musical and sonic relationships we require.

Moh’s has nothing to do with musical performance unless you include Larry and Curly in the band.  ⌣

Robert

Star Sound

Getting back to sound reproduction if any are still interested:

Geoffkait wrote,

As I’ve oft described, performance of cones is also a function of Hardness. Brass for example is a relatively soft metal, and carbon fiber is a relatively soft material, whereas tempered steel and NASA grade ceramics rank very high on the Mohs Hardness scale - and are audibly superior to softer materials like brass.

We disagree with this claim.

First, NASA does NOT grade, advertise, recommend nor receive any compensation for sponsorships of any material - whatsoever. NASA Grade Ceramics is a wishful analogy or marketing line of some kind that only exists in the mind of a person who once was employed there.

>>>>I never said NASA did any of those things. I use the term NASA grade ceramics to show that the particular ceramic material used in those DH (diamond hardness) Cones is the next HARDEST material next to diamond on the Mohs scale of Hardness.

Does this work for anyone? - Saxophones, trumpets, tubas, bones and all musical instruments made or contain brass alloys in their manufacture should use NASA grade brasses.

>>>>I never said ceramics should be used for musical instruments. Do you have attention deficit disorder?

The ‘harder the better’ distraction that is repeated all too often is one “opinion” and has been disproven multiple times over. In some cases, hard materials reproduce the sonic effects associated with hard or edgy, brittle sonic and that is not a desirable result for most listeners.

>>>>Again, you’re distorting my words. I said that hard materials should be used under components and under isolation stands for best results in evacuating residual energy from the system. Since you have no experience with the entire range of materials of various Hardness - as I do - you have no real basis for your opinion.

Disclaimer: We’ve never heard or prototyped an audio cone made of diamond, gold, silver, platinum,glass, minerals or tin so cannot comment on those materials.

>>>>Exactly! By contrast, I have had experience with those materials and many others.

Information for the DIY and Audio Designers:

All metal and ceramic alloys have different damping factors that affect the attack, sustain and decay characteristics of sound. These factors are a part of material science therefore it is very important to analyze, document, reference and learn how materials react to resonance formed from vibrations when designing anything related to audio reproduction.

>>>>Again, I only referring to Hardness related to cones.

Another Crucial Element Related to ‘any’ Vibration Device:

The overall function of cones (Not including $0.45 cent spikes), spheres, pucks or springs heavily relies on the mass and chemistry makeup of the two surface materials coming in contact with both the top and the base area of the device. These outlying surfaces, their chemistry makeup and mass greatly influence the functionality and sonic performance of any device.

Spring rates should be selected based on load.

Our primary issue with springs was weight limitations where you require a spring for this weight and another for that and every time you get heavier or lighter gear one has to match up the sonic result to or with a mass to spring ratio.

>>>>Once again you demonstrate your ignorance on the subject of vibration isolation in general and springs in particular. A spring with low spring rate cannot support a load over its weight range and that a spring that’s too stiff, high spring rate, cannot achieve a sufficiently low Fr. Sonic results of isolation are related to Fr of the isolating system. Obviously one spring can’t be used for all loads. Geez, Robert, have you considered spending some time in the library? Perhaps you can have your seismologist give you and your team a short non technical tutorial on vibration isolation.

Since we are the company in audio with the most years of experience modeling, prototyping and manufacturing conical devices and are developing a newfound vibration technology, we remain extremely confident and have proven that our choice of brass and its chemical makeup delivers the function and sonic results essential for industry and product expansion.

>>>>>marketing blather.

We sampled, tested and listened to many materials including many brasses along with twenty-five different varieties of steels; applied multiple geometries to a host of prototypes that failed or had shortcomings related to limiting frequency response. The cost over time was extensive and most did not make the grade for our research and development projects, especially when it came down to the ‘all’ important musical and sonic relationships we require.

>>>>The one thing you didn’t experiment with that would be pertinent to this discussion is vibration isolation.

Moh’s has nothing to do with musical performance unless you include Larry and Curly in the band. ⌣

>>>>Yuk, yuk. This illustrates once again you failed to comprehend what I actually said, that Energy dissipation effectiveness is related to the Hardness of the cones.

Announced by the LIGO collaboration in February 2016, the discovery of ripples in spacetime known as gravitational waves was momentous enough to merit the 2017 Nobel Prize in Physics. Now, another Nobel laureate says LIGO has unknowingly made another spectacular discovery: gravitational waves from merging black holes that have been amplified by the gravity of intervening galaxies.

Called gravitational lensing, this phenomenon is routinely used to study light from objects in the very distant cosmos. But the new assertion, if proved correct, would make it the first such sighting for gravitational waves. The controversial claim, which has been dismissed by members of the LIGO team, comes via physics Nobelist George Smoot of the Hong Kong University of Science and Technology, and his colleagues. “We are wagering our reputations on this,” he says.

LIGO (for the Laser Interferometer Gravitational-Wave Observatory), comprising two detectors in the U.S., and Virgo, a detector outside Pisa, Italy, have together so far announced observations of gravitational waves from the merging of 10 pairs of black holes as well as a pair of neutron stars.

Well how on earth can anyone learn anything more about sound reproduction with LIGO running wild?

Can I use it in our next studio design? Obviously music and sound has taken a by-line in this conversation where Geoff has yet again achieved lift off!

I said that hard materials should be used under components and under isolation stands for best results in evacuating residual energy from the system.

Anyone who calls anything the “BEST” is proof you are not an engineer or trendsetter so it's much easier to understand why you are so highly opinionated.

Since you have no experience with the entire range of materials of various Hardness - as I do - you have no real basis for your opinion.

Our founding fathers know a lot on that subject. We have a well written material science engineer and patent attorney, a couple mechanical engineers, an electrical engineer and a seismologist that you insisted we go out and get a few years back. That advice proved to be a winning moment for Star and we thank you. I truly believe their combined knowledge is well beyond your “expertise” on any subject and that is a substantial basis for 'our' opinion.

The one thing you didn’t experiment with that would be pertinent to this discussion is vibration isolation.

Obviously your statement lacks substance. While you were still in college or working at NASA, I earned my living in the Sound Industry and would like to share more experiences from applications and testing methods but there again, anything and everything that goes against your grain would be in dispute. When you get stumped or have no replies, the next move is attack the personality instead of answering or seeking answers to questions.

EXAMPLE: We believe that AC power immediately vibrates all parts involved in the product build because of the immediacy and release of man-made energy fueling all the parts. You never mentioned or considered that fact in your touts regarding seismic activities.

Question: Does seismic cause greater inefficiencies in comparison to the immediate resonance build up caused from AC power? Uh oh… I’m sensing the over used straw-man argument reply is being cut and pasted.

We experimented with isolation, springs, damping, cones, spheres, discs and various materials, etc., and spent years studying and listening to the old ways including my personal purchase of your favorite conical back in 1995 before Star was ever established. 

Do you think we blinked and there it was... a newfound vibration management technology?

Your favorite cones weigh in at a few ounces of material and in my opinion, prejudice as it is, we will stick with a fourteen pound high speed mechanical grounding plane as there is quite the difference in performance. Both products are sold at the same price point so we are comparing two different methodologies or are we?

I personally offered to ship our products free of charge for your audition as witnessed multiple times on this forum. We thought you would enjoy knowing there is something “new” going on in audio and you refused. We invited you to visit an Energy Room at our expense and experience a new dimension in listening and you refused so I’m figuring you are more about proving you're the best of the best than actually learning something new in sound.

The audible differences between isolation and resonance transfer is “not” like hearing and comparing the subtleties between two amplifiers or DAC’s. The differences are much more than that where one makes your stereo sound better and the other takes you to an entirely new listening experience. And Geoff, that’s not “marketing blather” because we are capable and happy to prove it!

Robert