Why all speakers are imperfect


In this post you will learn why all speakers are wrong. There are many speakers out there but the truth is they all suffer from the same problems so manufacturers have to keep inventing new excuses to pretend that they have made advances in driver technology, cabinetry etc

Now as open baffle die hards know, the problem with box speakers is the box itself. 

The problem people dont understand is that the box is there only so that the product is easy to ship and easy to place in your room. It is a severe compromise when it comes to sound quality. 

So the real answer to perfect sound is not a box but a dividing wall. The drivers would be placed on one side of the wall and the wall would prevent interference of the sound from the two sides. The wall would be built so that one side is where you would sit and listen and the other side would be the outdoors. There would be no pesky back pressure and you would get glorious sound. 

Now this is clearly a superior and probably cheaper solution than buying a flagship magico. Think about how much a flagship magico might cost. For that money this could easily be done and it would be superior with no baffle step loss. 

Now as a speaker engineer, i can confirm that there is simply not a great deal of difference between drivers. I have compared dirt cheap with state of art. A set of illuminators would EASILY satisfy even the most fussy audiophiles. The rest is just a question of custom tuning the crossover which is not hard. 

So folks, the speaker industry is not what you think it is. My proposal would exceed the sound quality of the most expensive Magicos, Wilsons, YG, you name it. The cabinet is the real culprit not the drivers when it comes to the secret to perfect sound. 

Now if you want mediocre sound and enjoy being on the merry go round then you are free to buy b&w, atc, wilson, etc all the usual suspects. 

I believe that perfect sound is attainable NOW. The real problem is that audiophiles who have spent considerable money on speakers are too embarrassed to realize that they have wasted their money on an inferior solution. These people are so stubborn that they will continue on the same journey, buying and selling speakers every few years and never achieving perfect sound.  They will sneer at my proposal because they cannot imagine how such a simple solution could outdo the advanced 
state of the art technology used by the likes of Magico. 

I believe I am the only person within the audiophile community bar none that has the capability to understand what perfect sound is and why it is so difficult to achieve. 
I have heard some of the best the world has to offer and i can confirm that they have got it all wrong. 

Wake up and smell the coffee folks. Box speakers are wrong. 
kenjit
Gee, an infinite baffle loudspeaker. How revolutionary. You've done it, you genius you. If only someone had thought of it back in the 30's, 40's, or 50's.
@kenjit 

 "Now as a speaker engineer"

Haven't seen that grandiose statement from you before. 

Now this drivel below, yes this has been stated many times.

" I believe I am the only person within the audiophile community bar none that has the capability to understand what perfect sound is and why it is so difficult to achieve. "





Maybe I misunderstood but the back of the speaker driver is outdoors? Rain, snow, ice, bird crap? 
Gee, an infinite baffle loudspeaker. How revolutionary. You've done it, you genius you.
Well how come nobody else is doing it then if you think its so obvious?
It takes a genius to rediscover a solution to a problem that actually works. 
A box speaker is a poor approximation of the infinite baffle.No matter how strong you make a box, even if it was made of solid diamond, it would still be far inferior to a TRUE infinite baffle. 

Maybe I misunderstood but the back of the speaker driver is outdoors? Rain, snow, ice, bird crap?
could either do an anechoic chamber OR outdoors with protection from wind, rain etc . Not exactly rocket science to solve that problem 
BTW let's not forget what the self proclaimed speaker engineer -  kenjit -stated a few weeks back

" The best speakers should be made of concrete with a thickness of at least 1 metre all the way around i would have thought. Yet the best we can manage in even the most expensive speakers is a few inches at most. It seems that speaker companies are happy to have no upper limit on their prices but are happy to compromise on baffle thickness ."
@facten That is a very poor attempt to invalidate my ideas. 

Thick concrete is better than 2 inch mdf I would have thought. But the ultimate solution is the one Ive stated here. 
So how do you solve the problem of rain, snow, ice and bird crap without creating this back pressure? You can't  enclose it?
So how do you solve the problem of rain, snow, ice and bird crap without creating this back pressure? You can’t enclose it?
i just told you. An anechoic chamber would do. It depends on the outdoor climate. Not all places have severe wind and rain 24/7 do they?

You could use a semi enclosure with ceiling and side walls but no back wall or just a thin layer of fibreglass over a fence.
LO f-in L. Go ahead and make some. You will get RICH!!  You speaker engineering golden ear perfect sound hearing son of a gun. 
@kenjit 

" That is a very poor attempt to invalidate my ideas"

You made the statement that invalidated your "ideas" ; live with it
What keeps the squirrels and field mice from making nests in the speaker? Or raccoons from eating them? I don't  know about having speakers open to the elements and building an anechoic chamber might be more than the 200K indoor speaker. 
https://www.apamericas.com/en/
How many times are you going to create these inane threads that say the same thing? 
Kenjit, in one of your previous lessons you stated something to the effect that every speaker must be tuned to the ears of the owner/ listener. Does that not imply that there is no one "perfect sound"?
ALL professional (and many amateur) loudspeaker designers know all about the Infinite Baffle design (far more than this self-proclaimed stable genius), and have for many, many, many years. GR Research (and others) make excellent drivers optimized for IB use. Ignorance is bliss.
Well how come nobody else is doing it then if you think its so obvious?
Probably because it doesn't sound very good. Speakers mounted in a wall create a very flat sound stage with no image depth. Most audiophiles are looking for a nice three-dimensional sound stage. 

There is that @jaytor, but what this nitwit doesn't seem to know is that there ARE people making raw drivers, cross-overs, etc., for use in custom Infinite Baffle installations, including out very own Danny Richie of GR Research (the woofers used in the OB/Dipole Sub can also be used in IB applications).

But the people involved in the IB market don't just talk about it, they do it. There is a healthy underground DIY loudspeaker community, with designers sharing their ideas with other enthusiasts, and offering products for DIYers. What has this nitwit designed? Nothing. He thinks suddenly discovering a very well known old speaker design makes him special? What's he going to do next---rediscover the wheel?

Ignorance is bliss.

Maybe Property Brothers will feature a wall of speakers in their next episode. 
Yes, agreed.

Infinite baffle is more effective for subwoofers because there aren't that many imaging cues in the lowest two or three octaves. But I think IB (specifically wall mounted drivers) is a lot less effective for full range speakers because of the poor imaging qualities.

And I definitely prefer OB subwoofers over IB for music. IB subs will still pressurize the room which I don't think sounds as natural for reproducing the sound from musical instruments.
Oh boy, kenjit stomping his feet and acting out yet in another thread. Sounds like he is getting very frustrated that nobody is taking him seriously. I can see an outdoor infinite baffle speaker or an anechoic chamber in every home. Just think of the great WAF, great for entertaining and very practical too.

I wonder if all these insane statements & ideas will continue even after mom kicks him out of the basement ....
To see someone unknowingly display his ignorance is so.....embarrassing. Poor little feller, he should think about getting himself a girlfriend. Good luck with that ;-) .
" The wall would be built so that one side is where you would sit and listen and the other side would be the outdoors."

Not only is this ludicrous for homeowners, but what will all of the apartment dwellers do? 
It's hard enough keeping squirrels out of your attic much less the back of your speakers. Having the back of your speaker open to the outdoors is like putting a vacancy sign out for them. 
To see someone unknowingly display his ignorance is so.....embarrassing. Poor little feller, he should think about getting himself a girlfriend. Good luck with that ;-) .
No one would measure up to his standards. Even a glass slipper would be of no use.

All the best,
Nonoise


Well how come nobody else is doing it then if you think its so obvious?
It takes a genius to rediscover a solution to a problem that actually works.
A box speaker is a poor approximation of the infinite baffle.No matter how strong you make a box, even if it was made of solid diamond, it would still be far inferior to a TRUE infinite baffle.
They are done, for low frequencies. 

Problem for midbass, mids and highs...

Very poor imaging and soundstage. 

There's your project, genius, design an infinite baffle speaker that can image and create a soundstage. I am sure it should be easy for you.  
Why oh why do you guys indulge this idiot??!
Thick concrete is better than 2 inch mdf I would have thought. But the ultimate solution is the one Ive stated here.
Thick concrete would create a similar problem with imaging and soundstage. 

To make the cabinet have a large enough internal volume for the woofers, it would become too wide for mids and highs to image.

But concrete is a pretty bad idea for enclosures, even if is 2 feet think. 

Norm Varney with  A/V RoomService, Ltd explains why in this vid. And yea, Kenjit, he has proper engineering credentials.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6G4HF6wJG38
The infinite baffling of any GF would be a short lived event
Can we at least get pistonic drivers in this vented into the neighborhood design. ???
As soon as I see a new thread by Kenjy, I make myself the biggest tub of popcorn, and enjoy the comedy show - for days. 
Said one neighbored dog... “ gee I hope Kenjit wires those out of phase some day, I want to hear the leading edge of Cat Power ... eventually 
A proposed name for your new venture Kenjit: Concrete Bunker Audio - No Good idea can bust thru
Said one Concrete Bunker audiophile to another ( this will be a ten to minus nine event, but it could happen )

my system has never sounded better, I feed the neighborhood cats nano particles and when they mark turf on the cones the liquid midrange appears for a song or three..
Harvard On The Highway just tweeted out that “they want their Engineering Degree back.”
The firm of Dewey, Cheetem & Howe has been retained and has filed a Cease and Desist Order with a mandate for immediate removal of horse puckey from public forums.
Coverage at 6:00 pm on the BBC World News
Kenjit
Send a message to bo1972. You two have a lot in common. You might hit it off. Give him a message. His deal is tru-fi. Loves talking in the 'factual' arena. Please send him a message and you guys get together a try to figure out something magnificent. Please. I think that would make your day.  You can thank me later.
The Speakers are as close to perfect...... here.  

Then they go to dealers, then customers, and all hell breaks loose.

Audio Dealers should be more honest to customers.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/81tCu7WXcgsJs5zM6


I've heard at least a dozen different open baffle speakers.  They all sound different.  I did not know there were so many variants of "perfect."  Is one more perfect than another?  
Kenjit is the self promotion champ with his redundant useless threads that people can’t ignore. 
My advice: ignore. 
@djones51

What keeps the squirrels and field mice from making nests in the speaker? Or raccoons from eating them? I don't know about having speakers open to the elements and building an anechoic chamber might be more than the 200K indoor speaker.   

The drivers would not attract mice. Why would they choose a place like that when they could choose any other place? The noise would drive away most pests. The worst that could happen is driver damage but that could happen even indoors if say insects were to get into your cabinets through the port and then chewed their way into the voice coil. Its a small price to pay for perfect sound. 

You have no evidence that it would cost 200k. I think buying a pile of fibreglass and stacking it inside the room would be more effective than a single layer of thin polyester that is normally used. Fibreglass is pretty cheap. Its used for insulation. 

Since you are more concerned about the minor drawbacks and show no interest in the sonic benefits, you obviously do not require perfect sound. This project is for serious audiophiles and not people like you. 

@qjm101

Kenjit, in one of your previous lessons you stated something to the effect that every speaker must be tuned to the ears of the owner/ listener. Does that not imply that there is no one "perfect sound"?

You are correct that in my previous lesson I stated that speakers must be CUSTOM tuned by hand to the persons ears. You are wrong that there is no perfect sound. The major reason for imperfect sound is the cabinet that adds distortion that is unmeasurable. By removing the cabinet we remove that source of distortion and get closer to perfection.

My solution gives you the best of both worlds. You get the benefits of open baffle and closed box but none of the drawbacks. 

@jaytor 

Probably because it doesn't sound very good. Speakers mounted in a wall create a very flat sound stage with no image depth

All major recording studios use soffit mounting.If it was that bad, they would not do it. 

@simonmoon 

Thick concrete would create a similar problem with imaging and soundstage. To make the cabinet have a large enough internal volume for the woofers, it would become too wide for mids and highs to image.

Wide is best for imaging. look at the sonus faber stradivari for example.

@larryi 

I've heard at least a dozen different open baffle speakers. They all sound different. I did not know there were so many variants of "perfect." Is one more perfect than another?  
Open baffles are wrong. 

@tomic601 

Can we at least get pistonic drivers in this vented into the neighborhood design. ???
It's a myth. Theres no need for pistonic motion. Thats why you use two or three drivers to cover the whole range of frequencies. Custom tuning is far more important than that.

@facten 

Not only is this ludicrous for homeowners, but what will all of the apartment dwellers do?

The project is not a possibility for all audiophiles such as audiophiles who are poor, who live in small homes or who have no space, but if you are able to spend the kind of money on a Magico and want the best then this is it.

Also if people are still concerned about imaging, then there would be  optional flexible PVC pipes that could be supplied that would go between the back of the drivers and the wall to enable flexible room placement and a false plastic baffle of any shape and size you like to be fitted.
" All major recording studios use soffit mounting.If it was that bad, they would not do it."

Why do you continue to make things up and make assumptions?

https://duckduckgo.com/?q=recording+studio&iax=images&ia=images&iai=https%3A%2F%2Fi.ytimg.com%2Fvi%2FNxnkWVTUl98%2Fmaxresdefault.jpg
I believe  my response rose to the level of seriousness that the original post called for. Squirrels in your outdoor speaker could be a very serious problem not to mention if these speakers caused animals such as squirrels,  mice, cats, birds and others that occupy our habit to become deaf as the inventor you will be held liable in a class action lawsuit. 
Come on djones51, isn't obvious?

" Why would they choose a place like that when they could choose any other place?"

Like the animals think, rationalize and talk amongst themselves. They are instinctive, not thought rational. Now, kenjit chooses to annoy people.
I think Donald Trump must have gotten interested in speakers all of a sudden. 🤫
Actually  it would be exactly the kind of place squirrels would look for. Even if this idea worked and created the best sounding speakers ever created I doubt you  could convince HOA's and zoning boards to approve. I can imagine the farts older than me in mine yelling THOSE THINGS IN THE SIDE OF YOUR HOUSE ARE AN EYESORE!
@dill 

https://www.roblox.com/users/123949232/profile 

Hahahaha

Genius.

I looked through his creations, but found no speaker like the one the Kenidjit is talking about.

Must be a lie 


Hahaha

So who is this kenjit person and how does he carry that mammoth ego around?  He certainly loves to hear himself talk.
@dill 

Plenty of professional studios use soffits which disproves the point made by some that mounting speakers in walls is bad for imaging. 
You have found a picture of a studio that uses midfield monitors. So what? Why dont you google soffit mounted monitors to see that professional studios do in fact use speakers mounted in the walls? 

Our HOA wanted us the pressure wash the mailbox.... we moved
kenjit, look at all the photos of the studio link Einstein, there are many different ones shown. Wall mounted speakers are not soffit mounted.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soffit