VPI Scout vs. Thorens 165

Why is a new (or used) VPI Scout a better analog source than a vintage Thorens 165 or 166? Or, is it?
there are two cultures of turntable owners....the thorens 165 and 166 are both classic tables and fall into the first camp. most thorens owners just enjoy music and use their tables for years. the vpi boyscout turntables turn over like flapjacks at fall camp and are in the second camp. no one ever stops upgrading until they eventually (lots of money later)bail to another brand. the vpi may be the more superior product, but when you get to 'satisfaction' and 'pride of ownership' issues, the thorens is the winner.
Jaybo, thanks for your response. You wrote:
the vpi may be the more superior product, but when you get to 'satisfaction' and 'pride of ownership' issues, the thorens is the winner.

Can you be more specific about why the VPI may be the more superior product?
i bought a scout when they first became available, and although it may have been a bit more detailed(maybe forward) in the midrange than my thorens 147 jubilee and my oracle paris, it just didn't have the 'weight'and overall balance on classical and rock that the others had. i had the same experience years ago with an hw19mklv........yes i tried various cartridges (primarily sure and grado), but i was never satisfied. there was just something missing. i hate constant upgrading, so i sold it. i have used the phono section in both a p300 accuphase and a c22 II mcintosh with all the above. i have also owned mapleknoll, sota,dual,ar,denon..... and spent a week with a rega 25 which was a disaster in my system.
As colonel Potter would say to Jaybo "Horsehockey!!!" The Scout is a fantastic table right out of the box. Don't take my word for it, read the reviews and informal posts and look at the sheer number of sales. [That is why there are more Scouts than Thorens on the used market--there are simply more out there] The ability to upgrade in a variety of ways and price points only furthers the attraction. I'm sure there are literally thousands of Scout owners (like myself) who will own their Scouts for years and use them with pride. Ultimately, "satisfaction" and "pride of ownership" are determined by VALUE and, to varying degrees STATUS. The VPI delivers an amazing value and I doubt seriously that there are many owners apologizing for having them spin their vinyl. Now if we are talking about NOSTALGIA as a factor determining "satisfaction" and "pride of ownership" that I can see. I have a 1973 BMW 2002tii that I restored that I am very "satisfied" with and brings me lots of "pride of ownership". It will get outrun by almost any modern sportscar of even the middling sort but I don't care because the performance matters less than the nostalgia factor. I think people cling to their old tables (and other things) because they like to reflect on and connect with their past, not because the thing is necessarily "better" than what is now available.
Pride doesn't mean squat - sound does, so I guess Jaybo is saying The Scout would be his choice. It's mine too - It's hard to beat the scout at it's very low price considering the performance. Why? If I knew that I'd start my own TT company.

I have mine stock and have not upgraded. There is no reason too. If I wanted to spend more, I would look at my options. For the money, the Scoutis hard to beat!
As a previous Thorens lover I vote for Linn LP12 or the VPI as they are more reliable and parts/ service are easily available. I have had Many Thorens TT die. All The lp 12s I have owned have never failed !
i would agree that the linn lp12 would be a great table. also the well-tempered classic. the oracle alexandria and delphi are nice too. i haven't had any problems with my thorens(knock on rosewood)
Re: Jaybo's observation about "weight" and balance parallels mine when I took the Scout out of the box and set it up on the top shelf of a Billy Baggs rack, which is 3/4" mdf with formica veneer. However, when the Scout is set up on a thick maple platform, it's sound is transformed for the better. The missing weight and balance is there in abundance when sited on a good support.
the scout is certainly a good table, but i swear, just the upgrading frenzy on these tables seems to be a full time hobby. check the various threads
Thanks everyone for your posts.
The scout table does sound great right out of the box, in my experience, and the upgrade path is definately there, which is a positive in my mind, not a negative, you can take it as far as you want (and your wallet allows).
I went from a Thorens 165 to a VPI HW19 MK III and I'd say the difference in sound was dramatic. The Thorens lacked the weight and solidity of sound that the VPI brings.

I was sure that my Thorens was "perfect" and that even after getting the VPI that I would hold on to the Thorens forever. But after a few months with the VPI I couldn't think of ever going back to the Thorens. So, after 8 months, I set the Thorens back up and lived with it for a full month. At the end of the month I sold the Thorens and have never missed it once.