Just watch WC video again on that shootout. There wasn’t a single category that was close. Every single one was a landslide victory. That is a butt kicking. Most could hear it on the video but only one was in the room (WC). It wasn’t just A beats B - it was A destroyed B in every conceivable way - nothing close about it, according to WC. Watch the video again and refresh your memory.
And don’t say it is only because WC likes warm sound, because even in every category that you hold dear, Viber, WC methodically explained that the statement amp destroyed the Rouge - every category, including clarity and everything else.
Butt kicking, per WC. Sorry. Watch the video.
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And V please stop the nonsense that clarity even at the possible expense of emotional engagement is "better." For you and a minority of listeners, perhaps (and that’s fine - I won’t try to dissuade you from what you like). The problem comes when you try to project that view onto everyone, or belittle views that do not align with it.
I submit that most audiophiles want a sound quality that makes them forget everything and provides the best enjoyment of the music; that they can listen to for hours on end at the volume they prefer without fatigue or loss of engagement. You throw the word "euphonic" around as a pejorative, again and again.
I’ll say it again. Your descriptions of what WC likes (or should like) are themselves EUPHONIC to his actual reviews, in the truest sense of the word. Your attempted colorations, yes colorations, (see above for just one example: "WC seems to be in love with the specific euphonic flavor of the Lux 900") contaminate, yes contaminate, WC’s reviews in a bothersome and tedious way. Let his reviews speak for themselves, without characterizing them to meet your sense of what is "best." We are all smart enough to make our own judgments about what he says and how to interpret what he says as it pertains to our preferences.
To be clear, my suggestion is not personal - I’m sure you’re a fine chap, and you often post interesting observations. You were doing so well since the turning of the yearly calendar page.... Don’t stop posting; just please stop putting down or making snide comments like the above quoted re those whose views on sound don’t align with yours. |
I found Gryphon better. More muscular, authoritative. Much better able to command and control the Alexx woofers than D'Agostino, whose bass seemed sloppy and loose by comparison. Gryphon also had better definition across midrange and highs. Not a close comparison in my opinion |
WC, which integrated is that in the video? Lux's numbers are all so similar. I think you said 509 but 30w class A seems closer to the current 590 int than the current 509??? Just want to be sure I know what that is in the video. Thx! I have no familiarity with Lux and they all look very similar too. |
Got it. Well in that case a Wilson / Magico shootout would be must see television. Here’s hoping that it finds a way to become reality |
Cool thx.
I like when you give pronouncements like, "best for the money." That's helpful to those of us on budgets.
Seems in last video that WC gives very clear statement that in his opinion, the best amps at $10k and $20k pricepoints are both Luxman. He is emphatic in his conclusion.
I wonder if anyone will try to gaslight and convince us that WC did not say that or does not really think that, but instead prefers something else at those levels???? |
Which speaker is #1 and which is #2? Or is that intended to be part of the suspense? The Dynaudios were never shown, and DAWs remained in same spot for both clips, meaning dyns (assuming they were playing in one of two) had positioning very different than daws. Not saying that’s wrong just an observation.
My tongue in cheek conspiracy theory is both were daw with different power conditioners (Denali and AQ). 😂
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My guess is that "Speaker 1" was Dyn and "Speaker 2" was DAW. I thought clarity on 2 was maybe a bit better; I thought 1 sounded bigger but maybe a little sloppier? Can't really truly judge them though given my limited and poor playback options. Still fun though. |
Oh, forgot that one. Got a gold, silver and bronze ranking on your preferred SQ for those three (with caveats that you had them at different times with different equipment, but you are experienced and can probably extrapolate), and in particular which perhaps come closest to your preferred non-class-D amps? (if it’s not asking too much, some of us are class D fans and cool to see how you stack them up since many of us haven’t owned any of those three, let alone all three). I don't think this specific class D comparison question has ever been asked of you. Thanks! |
This is a side question, but which class D amps has WC reviewed over the course of this thread (outside of his initial, very first posting where he listed like 30 amps, some of which were class D, but I think most/all of which were surpassed in his opinion by the later stuff (ie, stuff since first post))?
I remember Rowland 925's and Bel Canto Black, and he seemed to really like both at the time. But I'm struggling to remember any others. Anyone remember, or were those two the only class D? |
Got it. Ok WC, how about a platinum, gold, silver and bronze ranking of those 4 class D contenders??? (Last time I'll ask if you aren't into ranking them) |
Excellent video WC. I especially appreciated the dac direct myth. You were very clear about that one with all dacs south of six figures. That really should hopefully quiet some of the blabbering wisdom often spouted in these pages on the thread. |
63-69 avg dB; ears are 12.75’ from speakers, which are 9.25’ apart |
I only measured the db with iPhone free app so dunno how accurate- probably not very... seemed pretty loud so I expect I got a low reading |
Isosceles or equilateral? I say isosceles : ) |
Yep that Lux combo is damn good |
To me it sounds like the piano pedal is 10% partially pressed with the ARC as compared to the Luxman; just sounds a little heavy |
haha, I’m just saying now at least three people have preferred the (now-discontinued) $109k Alexx over the whatever-it-is-$175k? Magico M6.
If you look just at msrp, that is a surprising result, potentially. Of course many will prefer the Magico, I’m not implying otherwise |
Should we roll with it?
Wilson == Muscular
Magico == Feminine
???
Which will WC pick?
Haha, jk, I don't think that's fair to Magico myself. So cut it out with the labels, LOL! |
@sqitis,
I know because I was the one playing the piano! Luke, I am your father!
No, you’re right, in all seriousness. I’m actually probably an ARC fanboy as that’s what I have (lower end) but I thought the Lux just sounded better to me, granted on my imperfect (to say least) playback options and the 5 minutes I spent listening, haha.
But that’s what this is about - WC gotta keep churning and comparing - it’s what he was born to do. Full burnin be damned - show gotta go on.
I always figured my next system would be ARC and Wilson based on my trajectory (it’ll be awhile, sigh, a long while), but now I’ll for sure give Lux consideration as well. |
Have a good day, Dave. If you feel my posts are out of bounds, I'm sure you won't hesitate to report them. It's an audio forum. Lighten up. Viber can handle it. |
Interesting for sure. But haven’t you always had an unfavorable impression of Magico when you have heard them?
Correct me if that is not right but over the course of this thread if memory serves (which is hit or miss) I thought you were always lukewarm at best on them??
Anyway, can’t wait for Magnepan/ ML shootout.
Over course of whole thread this may be most evenly matched and anticipated head 2 head that could have most appeal to most people. IMO.
Well the ARC/Lux/Dag preamp shootout was pretty badass too. |
WC, pair of ARC ref 750 sel on Agon for $15.5k. You know you want ‘em! |
How badly do the Alexx beat the Focal Stella? Tell us how they compare |
It’s obvious that WC just needs to buy the Wilson Alexx V and keep the M6 so that he has both bases covered depending on how tough he is feeling that particular day : )
Both speakers easy enough to throw around the room so no problem there |
It’s probably fair to point out that WC never intends to keep an amp for more than a couple months. Some of us keep our equipment for 20 years, and therefore may be more concerned about longevity than if we knew we were going to sell our amps within a couple months. Not a criticism, but an important distinction. |
thezaks,
Right, I know, but my comment was more to the excessive heat aspect and suggestion to use fans, as well documented the effect that heat over time can have on caps, etc. No issue with leaving on all the time in standby. I wasn't very clear about that I guess. |
Does the Luxman integrated that you currently own run super warm? Guessing so since class A but easier to just ask.
Also, if you could take a stab at quantifying, how close in percentage basis does Lux integrated get to the Lux 900 amp/pre combo? 80%? 90%?
Lastly, I vote for a blind shootout video between the Lux integrated and the Lux combo. Don’t show or tell us what is playing.
That has probably never been done and you’ve rarely (never that I can remember) had the components of same brand at same time to do blind shootout between brand’s top int and top separates. Of course it is expected that separates will win but the intrigue is in the delta.
That could really shed light on the int v separate debate as far as how much gap there is. Might be one of most interesting vids yet! Don’t let opportunity pass bc it could be forever before you concurrently own best int and best separates of another top brand
i picked AQ conditioner in last vid |
^That’s actually a really good suggestion! Agreed! |
Agreeing with Viber, would be great to have had another straight-up Gryphon/Boulder/Alexx video without the new cables by this point. Alexx 10 days in already and only one video since the intro video??? Is the sound not meeting your expectations? |
Makes sense on subs.
On Colloseum, just stating what my preference would likely be. Not trying to talk you or anyone else into changing mind as to what they prefer. |
+2 on adding MIT to the cable shootout or down the road if it would work |
Ricred you are right whole hobby is stupid expensive. Almost like there is incentive for manufacturers to price things ever higher on basis of that leading to yet higher demand, opposite of most industries |
Luxman integrated >> Pass Labs integrated |
ARC750SEL? That’d be fun.
I know you don’t like tubes but that would be a trip |
He’s been pumping Coda on every thread all over audiogon. Getting old.... |
Agree the argument is a little pointless but it only reared after V pulled the giant killer card again and tried to say benchmark amp almost as good as Boulder 2150 and Mephisto. I mean come on that is jibberish not even worthy of debate.
and for the record the only reason I mentioned it was bc of WC’s conclusions bc he was in room. YT is too fallible for all the known reasons to put much stock in any conclusions reached thru it so the 60/40 thing is probably not so telling
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Wrong
V insists direct is always better
that is the myth and wrong
pay attention |
I preferred Cardas to Wireworld. Thought the bass through Cardas sounded more substantial and also tighter.
Would have to listen some more to see if I prefer WW to ????
Again, that Luxman and Wilson combo is really nice. |
Doesn’t matter terribly much which of the two you keep. Comparable performance.
But under $15k, I think you can do better than either, which is why I’m glad you’ll maintain both systems. |
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In all seriousness, I think the differing views here play in different sonic universes.
WC plays in the hi-end. Viber plays in the low end. Nothing wrong with that. WC has acknowledged that at the low end it can work the way Viber insists it works everywhere. Viber has never played in the hi-end, but likes to apply theory to the hi-end.
But, and here’s the positive spin on all of this: Maybe the results to preamp vs. direct debate will be different in the modest system versus the hi-end system, right in your room? Perhaps get a modest dac (Vega G2.1, Directstream, Dave, Bartok) for the modest system and see??
So many possibilities with the maintenance of two separate systems.
PS - I love how on this thread a "modest" dac is $14k (Bartok) |
Yeah, didn't check that out. Well if speaker, Wilson AlexxV. But maybe it is analog. I had predicted two years ago that 2022 would be the year he tries vinyl. I wouldn't be surprised.
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thezaks,
I do not want your advice, so please refrain from trying to advise me.
Thanks, |
Every time I buy a speaker I nail it 100% the first time. Keep trying, WC, you'll get there one day. LOL! Patience, young jedi.
<it's a joke, folks> |
That’s great that the less expensive Luxman sounded better than the more expensive Dag and Ayre. Awesome result.
And also WC very clearly stated that although #1 had more clarity than the Lux #3, that clarity aspect was irrelevant because the Luxman was WC’s overwhelming winner on sound quality.
Sound quality wins, not clarity when it doesn’t sound as good.
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Nobody cares. You keep saying the same thing. But whatever, I don't give a ___. Keep playing the victim if it makes you happy. Hope you feel better
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But now looking at his dealer page now I think mbl maybe more likely what it is |
I agree. Very hard to discern a difference between those two preamps. |
Ie, on balance it sucks for real world listening. Not even usable.
I think that proves what WC said about the myth. Dac direct is not better in this setup and most others WC has had. Therefore it cannot always be better |
