I have no experience working with hi-rez audio files. But re your question about recordable media, I have extensive experience burning standard definition video files to dvd-r's on various media, the bit rates for those files being a little less than the bit rate of 24/192 audio, but in the same general ballpark.
Based on that experience I have settled on using Taiyo Yuden (now part of JVC) 16x dvd-r's, burned at 8x speed. I almost never have any coasters. And with many of those dvd's having been played on other people's players, compatibility with players other than the drive used for burning appears to be excellent.
Al, thanks for the info. I've never heard of Taiyo Yuden. Several years ago I bought MAM-A/Mitsui CD-R's from mediasupply.com. I see that they carry the Taiyo Yuden DVD-R's. http://www.mediasupply.com/taiyoyuden.html
Of the 16X choices, which would you pick?
What software and DVD drive are you using? I was considering an Iomega http://go.iomega.com/en-us/products/multimedia-drive/dvd-cdrw/dvd-writer/?partner=4760
external USB drive. Any thoughts?
I ran across some open source writing software called Lplex http://sourceforge.net/projects/audioplex/
that should work.
I've used the silver thermal lacquer type
, obtained from Meritline.com. I have no need for inkjet printability, Lightscribe, etc., as I use Avery adhesive labels
. There have been reports of problems with other makes of adhesive labels, but I haven't seen any reports of problems with these, and I've used them hundreds of times with no problems.
I use Nero 7 for burning, which I purchased a few years ago and which is not the latest version. I was careful to install ONLY the Nero Burning ROM application, and not any other part of the suite of programs it is part of, much of which is poorly working bloatware, based on user comments I read at the time.
A nice feature of Nero Burning ROM is that if multiple burners are present, it can burn multiple disks at the same time. I have two burners installed in each of my computers, and I have found that it can burn two disks in parallel in EXACTLY the same amount of time as one disk requires.
The only very minor downside I've encountered with it is that you can only have it do a verify cycle on a disk immediately following the burn process. You can't insert a previously burned disk and command it to do a verify cycle.
Currently I mainly use Asus internal drives for burning, purchased a couple of years ago, with older Sony drives on one of my machines that I don't use too often. They are all inexpensive models. I used to have a much more expensive Plextor, until it failed, which had much better compatibility with a wide range of media. The Memorex's I was using then gave excellent results with it, but when I stated using Memorex's with the Sony burners that replaced the Plextor, I consistently had about a 30% coaster rate! Eventually when I settled on Taiyo Yuden's, coasters became a thing of the past with all of the burners.
I'm not familiar with the Iomega external burner or with the Lplex software. When I buy any computer-related hardware, I always see if NewEgg.com carries it, and if so what the user comments are that have been posted about it (keeping in mind that people who have encountered problems are more likely to post than those who have not). And if it is an item they carry, I buy it from them as well -- they are an excellent seller in all respects.
I am with Al, exp wise. Im merely ripping to my HD any HD music files. For me, theres little sense in burning them back to disc
aside from a compilation which I do generating just the playlist.
Ive found however that the DVD/CD Drive is quite key, if not the sole keystone. Getting as good there as you can, according to your machines MB will pay great dividends.
Fill up the RAM too.
Ive been using mostly Sony DVD combo drives for years now and their quality has been first rate. Ive always wanted to try a Plextor too. I use now a Sony 800A, and an LG HLD 22 yadayada. Both do a fine job with the Sony being the one with greater contrast and more vivid imaging
The LG works faster though
. Going and coming.
Software-wise for DVD SD Ive been using 1 Click Copy pro with outstanding results. Ripping from store bought DVDs and burning to Sony DVD+ or DVD-. Same thing for Verbatim & TDK. Ive not noticed any problems or improvements simply choosing by speed
8x or 16x.
Mostly the software determines ripping and burning sppeds within reason and using 1CCP, it ranges from 2.8x to 6x
. depending on which way Im going, and with which drive Im using.
Speed is of absolutely no concern to me. It is of great concern to the blank discs not becoming Mini Frisbees, mobiles, dream catchers or plastic pigeons, though.
In linear terms, front to back, itll take about 20 minutes to R&B a SD DVD even if its a DL DVD, and thats at an avg of 4x. 8x reduces the time by just a few minutes. Above and at 8x or so is where Ive had failures.
Lower speeds promote more successes
and whats another 4-5mins. anyways?
Ive been doing this for close to a decade and last night played one of my first dupes for old times sake
it was like it was when I first archived it. Played just fine.
So much for the notes long ago on the dye in burned discs lasting only 3-5 yrs.
Youll scratch em or lose em or your friends wont bring em back, long before the dye falls apart.
1 Click DVD Copy now has Blue Ray & HD abilities
. As well as mastering software. Dual layer support too. If DL discs are used theres no compression ever. Theres no compression with single layer discs IF the content in total remains under a DVDs 4.7GB capacity.
Their support is not bad either. Naturally youd have to have installed the appropriate drive (s) first.
and a decryptor like DVD43 or ANYDVD .in order to rip the vast majority of SD or BR discs. Some wont rip in any event.
1CCP is slam dunk simple too. Leave em on the pc and watch em from there or archive em
Ive got another thread asking this Q if youd care to check it out too
though I didnt ask about the mastering aspects. Computer Audiophile has more info and Audiocircle also has info on DVDAexplorer.
Let us know if or when you come up with a combo which allows you to make DVDA compiled discs.
Thanks Al and Jim.
My current PC will burn CDs, but not DVDs and I don't want to install another piece of hardware in the current box. I've used Iomega products in the past and have been happy enough with them. I believe the Nero suite comes with the drive. The Avery labels looks like a good solution.
The open source software appeals to me so that I can look under the hood if I want or need. Lplex appears to do just what I want, but we'll see...
Jim, just for clarification... I'm interested in DVD-video containing only audio, not DVD-A, so that the disc will play on any DVD compatible player. DVD-video will support 96kHz/24-bit audio which covers the files from HDTracks.com. I expect to use HDMI on my Blu-ray player to get the hi-rez stream out of the player.
I'll order the gear and supplies this weekend and take the plunge.
Thanks again guys,
One clarification. As might be expected, it looks like the Iomega drive comes with "Nero 8 Essentials," which I assume is a somewhat watered-down, simplified version of the Nero Burning ROM
program whose predecessor I use (and which now appears to be available separately from the many other items that were included in the more expensive "Suite" that I had to purchase in order to get the Burning ROM program).
Not sure exactly what the differences between Essentials and Burning ROM are, or how important they will be to you, but at worst you'll have to spend another $50 to get the full-blown program.
I get it. Im doing the same trying to extract audio from DVDs more so than DVDAs. DVDAs are far easier.
I get it that digital versatile discs can support 24/96 audio. Itll surprise you just how many movies, concerts and such on DVD arent done in 24/96 though. Many I own are only 16/48. Could be just my copies/versions too. though each concert DVD I own was a retail purchase.
Ive a scant few DVDAs laying around here presently, Last Waltz, Dark Side of the Moon and maybe a couple more. Concert videos list is longer yet so far theyve all been less than 24/96. My intention is to expressly add more DVDAs soon.
Xillisoft is about the easiest piece of SW to operate but it has a little learning curve to it as do all these sorts of ripping wares. With it you have to seek thru each title set to find the audio cuts. But it lets you preview each one and rip/convert into several formats, though of them only WAVE PCM appeals to me. For yourself, with the intent to burn em back to disc you might choose the AC3 native format so as not to have to process them further. Of course thats going to depend on the mastering ware and its support for ??? formats.
The web is littered with ripping freeware that will rip DVD audio off a DVD into MP3s, but Ill passs on those apps.
I suppose this all can be done using a USB ROM drive too for that matter, though Ive not tried it myself. Keep the speeds down, use error correction if possible, and make sure the ripping apps dont down sample the word or bit rates when ripping.
Then I guess it is just up to you to read the jacket of the disc to see what encoding the audio was mastered into so you wind up with higher res audio than 16/44-48k.
Ive been unsuccessful in using DVDA explorer to rip audio from sD DVDs so far. Even ones on my hard drive just wont show up in the app. So maybe its only good for DVDA, as its title intimates
I plan on taking 96kHz/24-bit FLAC files from HDTracks (I bought the Getz/Gilberto album download Friday night) and writing them to DVD-Rs. I'm not interested in ripping from any physical media.
If this works out OK, I'll buy a few select hi-rez albums. HDTracks has a few Verve albums I would buy again. I'm sure more will come available in the future. I really wish that Chad Kassem would release his Nat King Cole selections in hi-rez on Blu-ray. I'm not interested in owning SACD.
I was surprised at how large the audio files are and how long it takes to download an album (AT&T DSL Lite) -- new ground for me. I played the album via MediaMonkey through my old Cambridge Soundworks PC/TV speaker and it sounded quite nice. My plan is to create an ISO disc image, which you can play directly for testing, and then write that to DVD-R.
yep. The HD files are larger. Some sites however zip them, some just have faster servers.
From what I've downloaded so far I'm all in for HD file playback. I've found too that there is an assignment of quality with them exactly like there is from one CD to another... meaning some are nice and some are indeed better which I guess points directly at the orig masters being re-produced.
IOW... just 'cause it's 24/96 doesn't mean I'm going to be all over it and lapping it up eagerly.
Best of luck with your new enterprise, Bob.
The limitations of burning back files to disc are merely memories for me these days. The storage,organizing & cataloging alone gave me fits.... being a better 'getter outer' than a 'putter backer'.
Those head aches are now replaced by duplicate files.... albeit of dissimilar bit rates and file types... mostly.
Computer Audiophile just posted a uh, review/user guide for DVD Audio Extractor. It does DVDA - DVD - HDADVD.
Some notes are in the comments section regarding Writing of the ripped files.
I downloaded and installed a copy of DVD AE and ripped 16/48 copies of DVD concert videos with absolutely no issues. Last waltz; DKrall' Live in Paris; Sanatana's Sacred Fire Live in Mexico DVD.... and all converted to FLAC on the fly!
Just a quick update...
LPlex was unable to recognize the FLAC files from HDTracks.com. So that tool is now gone.
I've used this: http://cirlinca.com/
to create a DVD video (music only) ISO image file.
I've used this: http://www.magiciso.com/tutorials/miso-magicdisc-overview.htm
to create a virtual DVD drive from the ISO image file.
I've used this: http://www.videolan.org/vlc/
to play the DVD on the virtual DVD drive.
The JPEG cover art included with the album from HDTracks was the wrong size for the DVD authoring software. I'll look into resizing it.
According to VLC, the DVD title and chapter names are generic: Title 1, Chapter 1, Chapter 2, etc. I'll need to read the manual about this so they can be named appropriately.
Once these two issues are resolved, I'll use MagicDisc to burn the ISO image file to DVD-R and give it a spin on my Blu-ray player.
yeah Bob... every DVD ripping/burning software I've used shows each segment of a DVD or DVDA, as Title Sets and Chapters.
you've gotta rename 'em by hand if you want em renamed.... which is what I liked about the DVD Extractor software I just tried out recently.
if converted to a file type which retains Id INFO, ONCE DONE, YOU'RE SET!
the Oppo included test disc and music sampler disc might be Blue Rays and not a DVDA... as neither would work in any of my regular DVD ROM Drives. I can't see the text on their covers, but it's a fair assumption I think.
i'M STILL NOT GETTING WHY THE CONVERSION OF THE DISC TO ISO, AND THE USE OF A VIRTUAL DRIVE, THOUGH.
Re the ISO DVD image file and virtual drive is so that I can verify that the image is what I want BEFORE burning it to DVD-R.
I didn't wait to correct the sizing of the album cover art or naming the tracks to burn a disc. I used ImgBurn. It took a hair over 3 minutes to burn the DVD at 8X and then another 1.5 minutes to verify.
Using VCL to play the burned DVD I can look at the codec info and it says 96,000 sampling rate and 24-bit words. When played back via my Samsung Blu-ray player using HDMI to an Integra DTC-9.8, the DTC-9.8 shows an fs of 48 kHz. I went through all the menus on both the player and the pre/pro to see if I was asking for the audio to be down converted and it didn't look like it. I'll have to do some more research on the DTC-9.8.
I was hard pressed to hear any difference between the CD and the DVD of the same album using the same playback system. I'll try a friend's analog setup with an Oppo BR player tomorrow.
I'm thinking the Integra settings need be looked at and/or the disc player itself... that is of course IF the burn ware makes no alterations to the MOUNTED ISO FILE.
LPlex was unable to recognize the FLAC files from HDTracks.com. So that tool is now gone.
I am using lplex and had the same problem. The solution was to convert the flac files to wav first. I just use the flac tools from the flac site on sourceforge.
I highly recommend lplex. It is very easy to use, and supports gapless playback perfectly. I am able to play the discs on my Sony Blu-ray player hooked up to my DacMagic, and it sounds great.
After using lplex, all you need is some software to burn the DVD image to media of your choice.
i do alot of hi-res audio dvd burning. being an computer idiot made it quit the adventure at first but now i've got it pretty well figured out (for my needs). i posted a very detailed "how to" on PS Audio's discussion boards some time ago. someone else did it for mac's. links are below.
i download from hd tracks for the most part. always on the look out for new stuff and find the current selections very limited at best. hoping it catches on more soon. can't understand why it hasn't already?. when properly recorded and ripped...it sounds incredible. a huge leap forward in digital imho. have used several different dvd disc brands and can't tell any difference between them.
it's truly worth the effort. if i can do....anyone can!