Hi Charles,
I don't think many people would get me thinking about swapping out the BT from the Franks but your comments on the Takatsuki's have.
Quick question. Could you go back to the BT and be happy?
1450 is a lot more then the BT's. Right now I'm happy.
Regards, |
Hi Antigrunge,
What improvements do you hear with the dsmpers and which ones do you use? I know Herbie Audio Labs makes some. |
While i have only compared the TJMesh against Takatsuki on my Wavac Ec300b, the difference is night and day. What makes the Takatsukis such a treat is the completeness of harmonic overtones combined with stunning impulse and decay. While my EATs have the slam, they don't have the Takatsuki's harmonics nor the decay. The TJs are fun on rock but ultimately too loose to be in contention. Can I also suggest that any comparisons are done with proper tube dampers, since the ringing characteristics differ with again the TJs being most affected |
Charles, don't toot the horn quite yet, as the RPs have not stepped in the ring.
This match may be like Ali vs Frazier all over again! |
Phaelon,
Thanks for your kind comments.The funny thing is this,I was so content with the BT tubes in my system.That 6 Moons review with those heart felt comments by the Polish Sonic Society members really stuck with me. A few of them use the old stock WE 300b in their personal amplifiers yet were so moved by the Takatsuki`s performance. Now I understand completely. |
Hi Charles, I think itÂ’s great when someone, who has a system as outstanding as yours, and really loves it, stays open minded and finds a way to take it to an even higher level - much higher level - it sounds like. As for myself, thereÂ’s no ego involved here, I like having options and would find it exciting if you confirmed what Maxmad said.
Thanks for taking the challenge, making the effort and sharing. |
Hi Phaelon,
1200 USD could very well be enough. The RP could be the equal of the Takatsuki for all I know. This stuff is so subjective and it depends on what amp,system and of course who`s pair of ears are involved. Phaelon with your NAF amps things could certainly differ. All I can state at this stage is the Coincident Frankenstein-Takatsuki combination is ridiculously superb.
Fla,
I should have the RP tubes in about a week. |
Congratulations Charles1dad!
You took a chance - it paid off.
Will they warranty the tubes this side of the pond? If so, what would that entail? Shipping back to Japan?
When do you expect the RPs to arrive? |
Chartles1dad, I was counting on you save me some money, not to tell me that $1200 wasnÂ’t enough :-) |
Hey Jeff,
Thanks for your comments and for joining me last night to listen.It was so much fun and those tubes are absolutely emotionally involving,it was as if there were no speaker in the room just the musicians and singers. This Takatsuki is unreal.It would be fantastic to hear a KT88 version in your VAC monoblocks!
Regards, |
Maxmad,
The BT tubes impressed me more than they did you it seems. They may just mate better with my Coincident amp as compared to your Cary perhaps. According to the Takatsuki web site the monthly production ot their 300b is 30 pair per month. At their price they probably don`t expect to sell a lot of them. |
I was at Charles1Dad and all I have to say is that both of our jaws were left on the carpet. I think the Takatsuki improves his overall sound 80% or more. I am not kidding. This tube has dynamics that startle, transparency that welcomes you in to the event, and detail and smoothness on the treble without irritation. It is like you are listening to the piece of music you play for the first time. His older tubes were way darker and not as alive sounding as these. I need to convince Takatsuki to make KT-88's for me. Maybe second thought I should be quiet because I would need 16 of them in my amps, on second thought I would buy them. Charles will have to be served his meals in his man cave and he is lucky he has a bathroom close by. I don't think he is going anywhere soon. |
Charles1dad,
Just wait until you get RP's, but to be honest, USD1200 is way to much for them. They sure were better than BT in my Cary, but no way they can be compared to the real thing.
I agree about AVVT Mesh's, very difficult to find, but also very risky to buy, even for say USD500 a pair, you can't be sure they will not die on you next month, cos you never know how much and how heavy they were working in somebody else amp.
The same reason for me do not buy any NOS Svetlana's, certainly not from Russia or from not trusty source, cos many are just B stock and really bad at the end. I found a real Svetlana's that were made in the years of US ownership and these are the only one to try/get, but even then, their history is unknown, so, putting USD350 for a pair is very risky and I just didnÂ’t get them.
I mentioned 100 hours only, because it will be more than enough, think even less than that, to say that these are fully settled. Normally, and I think that's the case with Takatsuki as well, they burn them for like 24 - 48 hours nonstop, before they pass the manufacturing test. I know that AVVT did the same, not sure if this counts for all of their production years, but say after 1999 is. Do you believe any Chinese made tubes going to be tested like that? I doubt, especially when they make 500 tubes in hour, while an real handmade manufacture make like 500 in month, so, no comment.
I think if you ask the Takatsuki seller about their testing procedure they may tell you more, would be interesting to know, if that's not much trouble for you of course.
Keep informing us please.
THX |
Maxmad,
If this tube continues to improve over a 100 hour burn-in, oh my goodness! The one major concern I had prior to buying was the cost of these tubes. I`m very value aware and know all to well the diminishing slope aspect of high end audio. There`re many examples where more money does`nt equal better performance.You have to spend wisely.
IMO the Takatsuki is most fairly price given its supreme sound and if someone wants what is likely one of the very best 300b available. The RP is 1200.00 USD,old stock WE 300b are well over 2000 USD and going ever higher in price(what`s their true condition and history of use/hours?). Try finding an AVVT 300b mesh plate and how much will it cost? I would still strongly suggest the BT tubes in their price range, they will out perform many other 300b choices.
If you want to hear the best of your amplifier and are willing or able to spend 1200-1450 USD it will come dowm to the Sophia RP or the Takatsuki(current production tubes with a warranty).
Best Regards, |
Charles1dad, man, now you are talking!
I am like you, but already have 3 pairs and have something on order, not tubes this time, so, these must wait for a while.
Thanks for your impressions, its clear to me and if you use them for another 100 hours, they settle fully by then for sure. |
I`ll just come out and say it now,after 2 1/2 hours of listening tonight with my friend Jwm(audiogon member). The Takatsuki 300b is 'OUTSTANDING! plain and simple truth. I`ve been so pleased with the Shuguang BT for quite a while on a nearly daily basis and freely recommended it to others, it`s a very very good tube. The Takatsuki is in an entirely different class.It is superior to the BT in every parameter, bass is deeper,better controlled(but not over damped at all)there`s better articulation,tone and nuance. Stunning midrange true of tone,weight,saturation and believability. Instruments and voices are just vivid and alive.Upper frequencies are superb,airy,open and without hardness or phony 'hyper detail'.Resolution, transparency and dynamics are supreme.
Now to the important point, The music we heard tonight was utterly devine.If like me you cherish natural/organic reproduction of music you have found your ideal tube.
I realize I`m heaping much praise on a tube with less than 3 hours of use but this tube is honestly a standout. If it does`nt improve a hair from this point onward I would`nt care. 1,450.00 USD is a very steep price for one pair of tubes, well they`re worth every penny of it.This is the 300b tube for those who want ultra quality music reproduced in the most realistic and natural manner.
I still must compare it to the Sophia RP(once they`re returned frrom Sophia). The japanese craftsmen/engineers did a stupendous job with this project. They really love music or it would`nt have been possible to be this sucessful.
Best Regards, |
Great news Charles1dad!
Give them around 100, but I believe they will show you the potentials after several good hours. Come back soon with your impressions.
THX |
I just received my Takatsuki 300b tubes today(10 days earlier than expected!).I `ll listen tonight after work and will post very early impressions tomorrow.
The packaging and presentation is first rate and the testing measurements are in english(good) but the instruction booklet is japanese only. I`m no tube expert by any means but the appearance and 'feel' of these tubes are really high quality. I`m curious to see how they compare to my beloved Black Treasure tubes which I enjoy so much.I don`t know how many hours are required for burn-in, I guess I`ll soon find out.
Regards, |
Hi Maxmad,
The RP tubes brett sent me have uneven output(one is noticeably louder than the other). I`m going to return them to Sophia for inspection and work things out with brett.
The Takasuki tubes(ordered 1 week ago) should arrive in about 2 weeks. |
Charles1dad
Any luck for comming weekend?:-) |
Will keep it simple
Digital front - 47 labs Flatfish CD transport
Progression DAC
Custome 300B amp build by James Burgess
Tannoy Turnberry 10 dual concentric drivers
And everything in between:-) |
Maxmad, regarding the person with all the tubes to whom you refer... what is his amp and speaker pairing? TIA |
Maxmad,
Thanks for your comments and encouragement. I never would have believed I`d spend 1400 USD for a pair of 300b tubes.The Shuguang BT have been excellent for me the past 30 months (and shoud be for 600 USD at the time).But when I get a 'strong gut feeling' about a product it usally turns out well for me.Examples, going the SET route with the Frankenstein amplifier, then getting the DHT tube based Coincident linestage(to match). Buying the little known Yamamoto DAC and Ocellia Silver Reference cables.
These choices were 'profoundly right' for me, I hope this string continues with the Takatsuki tubes. Time will tell.
Regards, |
Charles1dad, like I wrote, I do expect you to like RP's more than BT's
Takatsuki, on the other hand, I expect to be the top of the line, combining the refinement, preciseness, balance, richness/warmth, deepest bass and musicality, which makes the product the best out there. I heard from someone who owns many top of the line tubes, NOS and present production, and his opinion is that Takatsuki are the best and only AVVT Mesh dont loose their reference first place. Also he found EML 300XLS to be closer to Takatsuki than any of his collection or those he tried, but not the same of course. They seems to share deep&powerfull bass with huge stage, but than Takatsuki's ( and now I post his writings, cos I cant do that ) tonality is very rich, but not overly warm - that, IMO, obscures tonality and detail. It IS warm - organic is perhaps a better word. Supremely musical.
So, I dont doubt you made the right choice to buy them after all, congtrats by the way:-)
THX |
Maxmad,
I think you`re correct about the Airtight connection(good IMO). I won`t be able to evaluate or listen for the next few days(other obligations). I will post initial RP impressions and of course Takasuki once I receive them, I`ll be patient until then.I hope you`re right about the "audio orgasms".
Regards, |
Charles1dad
Air Tight is a part of this production, cos they were waiting to long for WE restart the production and now it seems that it will never happened, so, they did it. There is a very small amount of review of this tube, but I do believe you will be having an audio orgasmus for sure, so, let us know about RP first pls, one step at the time.
THX |
Yesterday I placed an order with Amtrans for a pair of the Takatsuki-TA 300b tubes. I should have them in 3 weeks, in the mean time I`ll get familiar with Isochronism`s(Brett) esteemed Sophia Royal Princess.I admit a certain bias with 'high end' japanese products(my Yamamoto DAC is just fantastic, music yes, hifi no). By all reliable accounts the engineering and construction of this tube is to the highest degree and is a no nonsense attempt to build the very best 300b tube they possibly could. I`ll bite on this one.
Regards, |
Maxmad, I won`t be able to listen until this weekend,then I`ll post impressions. |
Charles1dad, what are your first impressions?
THX |
Maxmad,
I just received Isochronism`s(Brett) new tubes (via Sophia) RP tubes last night, I 'may' get The Takatsuki tubes from Gsm if he decides to sell them. Will keep this thread updated, if all works out in the coming days. |
|
Gsm, I would much like to see your tubes go to Charles, either as purchase or loan for the comparison between the three. |
While awaiting the main event results some might be interested in my
findings with the "lesser" Psvanes and AVVT 32b. Right out of the box the
Psvane 300b-t sounds a little more detailed than the BT's while retaining
very similar warmth and magical midrange. Overall I think it is a better tube
and only 15 hours on them. The AVVT's were shockingly lively, detailed
and very neutral. Not quite the lusciousness of the Psvanes. Probably will
be my go to for classic rock or shorter listening sessions. Can't wait for
these tubes to reach 200-300 hours. BTW, I will probably list the BT's with
700-800 hours on them. Also for those with the Coincident linestage, I
have 2 pairs of 101D's that I no longer need
George |
GSM Thanks for the effort in trying. I am sure your tubes are sold but if not email [email protected]. I will own both Takasuki one of these days along with my RPs. I own the Border Patrol S10 EXD with fixed bias so tube biasing is not a problem. In the mean time I will await for more drama to unfold. gwalt |
Thank you Charles. I have to remind myself to stop and take a breath after running in the door, before I sit down and try to think. |
Isochronism,
Abill is referring to Gsm`s Takasuki 300b which are`nt compatibile with his Ancient Audio amp. He`s not referring to your RP tubes sent to me. |
Abill, The remaining good tube was checked by Sophia and tested as new. I purchased a matched second tube and they both were then sent back to Charles to resume his planned comparison.
They are actually an additional pair that I have.
I am using my other pair here, now. I am very happy with them, and was not looking to get rid of any. You already have a pair of RP's?
The amplifier that was tripped by the Takatsuki's was the Wavelength? |
Gsm, I may also be interested in your tubes. If Charles doesn't want them I have a Wavelength Signature 300b NCE and also a Frankenstein mkII. You can email me at [email protected]. Abill |
|
Isochronism,
The plot is indeed thickening. |
Charles.. "let's get ready to rumble"!!
My Wavelength Cardinal Signature XS's are auto bias, as well. |
The plot thickens! A third prize fighting contender in the mix, would be all the better.
Gentleman, place your bets! |
Gsm, Tough luck, Based on your brief listening session it still seems to match the raves of the 6 Moons review. This is a 'brand new' tube that I`ll imagine will only get better. My amp is auto bias and made to except the WE standard. I`m very interested in your tubes.Email [email protected] |
I am afraid that I am going to disappoint all of you.
The backstory: My amplifier contains a protective circuit. My first pair of Royal Princess 300b tripped the protective circuit after about 30-45 minutes. The folks at Sophia Electric asked me to bring in the Shuguang Black Treasures that I was using "successfully" as well as the Royal Princess 300b that tripped the protective circuit. The Shuguangs drew 41mA; the Royal Princess drew 68mA - these were then swapped for a pair of Royal Princess that drew 41mA and that have been working fine ever since.
Yesterday, I inserted the Takatsuki TA-300; and after 30-45 minutes, they also tripped the protective circuit - just like the first pair of Royal Princess. When I looked at the measurements that came with the tubes, their current was also listed as 68mA.
So. . . I only was able to listen for a short while before the amplified shut down. But with the caveats that I listened to a brand new pair and only for a short time, my impression was that the TA-300b were at least as good at the Royal Princess and probably better. . . smoother, more musical, more holographic. That is as good as I am going to be able to do. Sorry to disappoint, but I am even more disappointed.
Where do I go from here? First, I asked the Japanese company whether there were any TA-300b tubes that drew less current. The Western Electric standard was 60mA, and the listed standard for the TA-300b was 65mA. Knowing the Japanese mania for adhering to standards, I got the expected reply "Even In Western Electric'300B there are almost plus minus a few 10mA's tolerance. Takatsuki's Ip tolerance is strictly regulated than WE and also the deviation on matched pair must be very narrow, that means superior matched pair. You don't worry about the specification and quality on Takatsuki's 300B." In other words, no. A second possibility is to send the amplifier back to the designer to have him change the protective circuit; it seems that he miscalculated considering that the two sets of tubes that tripped the protective circuit were close to the WE 300b standard. Unfortunately, Jarek is in Krakow, Poland; and I am in Washington, DC.
The conclusion. . . Is anyone interested in an almost new (less than 1hr use) pair of Takatsuki TA-300b? Unless I hear something different from the distributor in Japan, the likely future is to list them on Audiogon. Sigh. |
Pdreher,
The builder of my Coincident amp(Israel Blume) loves their sound and use to offer the KR 300b as an upgrade. He stopped due to frequent tube failure and the unwillingness of the company to back the warranty and replace tubes.He now prefers the Shuguang BT series and the Psvane black 300b. |
Have been following this thread off and on for a while. Where do KR 300B's fall into the mix? Do past quality control & warranty issues put them out of consideration? I know of a fellow Audiogoner that swears by them for his VAC Renaissance 70/70. |
I believe Auntjenof2 getting AVVT 32BL's, correct me if I am wrong.
If yes, congrats, fantastic tubes and please take a sit before you open up the package, because they are hypnotising, so, be careful:-) |
Auntjenof2,
AVVT(mesh or solid plate?) that`s impressive, this is shaping up for some very worthy comparisions. I`ll probably have the RP early next week and will report how they perform vs the Black Treasures I own. At lease on paper, the RP and the Takatsuki is the Ali-Frazier heavyweight main event.
But upsets are known to happen. |
I am also interested in the RP and Takatsuki comparison. Thanks
To a gracious headfi seller I have a pair of AVVT's and Psvane
300b-t coming in the mail today. Can't wait to hear how they compare
To my BT's. |
Even I agree about burn in period of tubes, but wouldn't that be interesting to know the first impressions, the middle impressions and the final one?
If you ask me, yes, I want to know that kind of development, so, if possible, post some of it please.
THX |
