Keep in mind that Kiwi's review was with the MBLs. I think that the Continuum is best matched with dynamic speakers (like Vienna Acoustic, Sonus Fabre, Wilson, Dali, etc.) that can use the power and control of this type amp. I don't know enough about the MBLs to say what amps make them work and what doesn't, but I've heard them sound very different in different setups. In my system, the Continuum 500 is very musical and emotionally involving when driven by either my Playback Designs MPS-5 or my TT. Rhythm and pace are astounding. This makes me suspect that the MBL is a bad match for the Continuum. With more "normal" speakers you're not going to have issues of emotion, musicality, rhythm or pace. Dave |
Tvad, you make a good point of speaker match, however Im not impossible to convince. I have found that most stand mounts are not easy to drive. Im choosing among a couple of stand mount loudspeakers, the list includes SF Guarneri Memento, MBL 121,Magico MiniII(although a bit pricey), SP Tech Timepiece mini, maybe there are others that Im not familiar with. Kiwi writes, "Continuum amp whilst delivering amazing vocal articulation did not capture the 'body' of the vocal. There was if you like a fantastic high resolution outline to vocals but no real density to them." I had a similar experience with my Spectron MIIISE. For the Continuum I think with all its power the hard to drive MBLs is one of the speakers you think it would be good for. |
Perrew, I'm worried that if you tried Spectron with MBLs and didn't find it involving then the Rowland will be only a little better. For most dynamic speakers I'd recommend the Continuum 500, but with MBLs I'm not so sure. I've never heard that combination, but Kiwi and now you report something missing with a couple of amps that I consider more alike than different. With the Guarneri Memento and Magicos (Rowland uses Magico in his own set up) I'd expect a very happy result. I don't know the SP Tech at all. If you can afford the cost and are willing to wait just a little, the new Vienna Acoustic The Music speakers have incredibly stunning midrange. Their proprietary 5" midrange driver covers frequencies from 100Hz to 20kHz with no crossover in that critical range. The absence of intermodulation distortion is stunning and the mids are stunning. In 2009 the line will include more choices, using that driver. So, I'm thinking that the MBLs need something in addition to power to sound their best. As you no doubt know, they're very room critical, way more so than any other speaker that you've mentioned. Dave |
Dave, clarification I heard the Spectron with Wilson Watt/Puppy 7s. Ive only heard the big MBL101e's with 9008. I dont find them as hard to place as every body mentions though. The Music seems like a really nice speaker, too big though. Im trying to find a pair of speakers with big sound and small footprint. Magico with Rowland, thats interesting. |
I'm interested in what amplification Kiwi thinks does sound best with the MBLs. Back in accordance with my point that there is no "best", from what I've read their sound in general leans more towards the detailed and analytic side of things, so I could understand the preference for a hybrid design in that case. Regarding the technical suitability of the Rowland/ICE, I think his review confirmed that the Rowland did take full control of the difficult to drive MBLS, which is what I would expect and even demand, he just had a few reservations about the resulting sound from his perspective. That is why technical fit of components is key, but that alone does not guarantee a match to tastes. I've never actually heard MBLS, but from what I have read (a lot), they share a difficult to drive, power hungry load with the Ohms and a similar design to some extent, but I suspect the sound from the specialized omni driver array used is much different otherwise. The Ohm Walsh driver is also a unique design but not totally unlike a conventional dynamic design. I think Class D could work very well in the case of the Ohms and produce a sound that one can "warm up to". Tube amplification is right out with either Ohm or MBL I believe do to the difficult load and power consumption. |
All, what we still do not know is what Kiwi meant by "ad a "listen" to the C500. How many hours of break in did the unit have when he performed critical listening? How many hours of active warmup did the unit have since the last power down? We do not know Kiwis expectations nor his sonic reference. Let us also consider that one audiophile's bleached sound is one other audiophile's accuracy. I have for example listened to Spectron only on SP speakers. . . and vocals where anything but sounding bleached to me, rather, I found them to sound grand and nuanced. But then, I am admittedly not fond of typical tube sound. Kiwi's 'bleached vocals" may be nothing more than a matter of differing expectations. G. |
Kiwi_1282001, It indicates you compared to MBL amplification but not what kind of hybrid amp you normally use with your planars? If the planars are anything like Magnepan, I could relate to how hybrid amplification could add a nice touch, again depending on taste. I would expect the same to be true with MBL speaks. Personally, I believe discussing the "best" integrated in the context of specific speaker designs and how they are different makes for a more valuable discussion. |
Sixmoons had trouble finding any significant faults with the Unico. And their description is pretty much what one would want to hear regarding a hybrid integrated design (versus tube or "tubeless", like the Rowland. Maybe not as muscular regarding power output as say the Rowland. Sounds pretty darn good, if not the best. Kiwi, do you know if it doubles output into 4 and 2 ohms? http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/unisonresearch/unico_2.html |
Perrew thanks for your comments! I compared the Diablo against Graff (many models), Consonance (single ended and forbidden city), Mcintosh MC-2102+C2200, aesthetix calypso + atlas, edge (the 10.000 model), nagra ( the pyramid monblocks) are quite a few I can remember! Trust me, you cant go wrong with the gryphon! It has all the advantages of good solid state amps plus a great timbre and lack of harshness in the upper frequencies! |
I did an extensive comparison of the Gryphon Diablo and the Gamut DI150. The Gryphon is an excellent amp, but there was no question in my mind that the Gamut was clearly superior, and I bought it. The Gryphon seemed to have slightly more bass weight and was slightly richer, but also a little more congested, cloudy, or confused, especially when many instruments came together. The Gryphon also had slight hardness to some higher frequency female voices and some of the bass notes. The Gamut was immediately much more open and spacious with lots of air between the instruments, and a much more 3D soundstage. Great depth and width! The voices and instruments themselves sounded cleaner and more accoustic to me, as if someone cleaned the window you are looking through, but also a slightly leaner sound throughout. To me the Gamut had less bass, but the bass was more musical and cleaner. Since owning and running it in fully, I have found the slightly lean sound is gone, with the right choice of cables. |
Just keep the Integrated amp you have now and do this free tweak to it. On the amp outputs just reverse the way you hook up the speaker cables to your Integrated amp on the other end of your speaker cables, your speaker hook ups you (do not) reverse the cables....I did this in my tape loop on my Integrated amp too. Did you all know that some recordings were recorded this way? |
Markphd, Well, there can be a 'best' for a given moment in time, if not by acclimation, by performance. Though, to get this group to agree on that, or even on what day it is would be impossible. Anyone heard the DarTzeel? It's $20.5K including a phono section. I hear that they're somehwat 'fat' in the midbass--some say musical--potato, potaaatooo.(Where's Dan Quail when you need him?) Anyone heard it? |
Stiltskin's right, a thread that goes by this title should at least draw some attention to the ASR Emitter II Exclusive Akku. The extreme focus on one product and its careful evolution for two and a half decades makes the Emitter a monument of particular allure in Audioland. Although a four box system weighing in at 300 lbs may somewhat defy some people's concept of "integrated" |
Hifisoundguy all i can say is i have a RITA-880 driving a pair of 82db Acoustat 1+1s and doing a great job this is no regular 45 watts per channel amplifier it replaced a Bow Wazoo XL 75 watts per channel very good amplifier BUT for my tastes i prefer the RITA-880 and it,s believe it or not MORE powerful than the Bow Wazoo XL AND ALL THIS WITH ONLY 170 hours on the unit i was told it will reach it,s full potential after 300 hours even if the sound stays the way it is now i would be very pleased. |
Last year I bought a Gryphon Diablo integrated amplifier after spending more than six months evaluating options including the Jeff Rowland Continuum C-500, the GamuT DI-150; the AMR AM-77; the Unison Research Unico 200 and the Plinius Hiato (to name some). I wrote about my experience in detail Here Almost a year on there has not been a single moment of buyers remorse other than when I tried to pair the Gryphon with an ESL speaker which did not work out. No problem. I also own valve amplification which was better for that specific task. Currently the Gryphon is driving dynamic speakers from Eben Acoustics (Raidho) and the pairing is simply wonderful. There must be something in the water in Denmark. The Danes seem to create some awesome audio products. |
Kiwi, thanks for the update. I read your reviews pretty thoroughly while on my quest to purchase one of the best (if not *the* best) integrated amp. For some reason, I thought you were partial to the Gamut over the Gryphon. Anyway, I ended up buying the Gryphon Diablo too. On my short list was the Gamut, the Pass Labs INT-150, and the Dartzeel integrated. The Diablo's sound is absolutely superb, but I also really appreciate the power on-hand, as well as the fact that it has an on-board phono stage. The Dartzeel was the only other integrated on my short list that had a phono stage. For me, the phono stage was a pretty crucial element to my selection process. Anyway, I run my Diablo with Quad ESL 57s and also with JBL L300 Summits. Within the next year or two, I would like to buy some of the higher-end Rockports to match it up with. |
Hi Rottenclam, I am interested to read that you've paired the Gryphon with Quad ESL speakers. I've recently been trying out different ESL's (most lately Kingsound, Martin Logan and Sanders Audio) and i've generally found the Gryphon / ESL combo's too stark for my taste. Wow, higher end Rockports are really something. Do try others in a similar price category though [Avalon, Eben, Hansen to name some]. |
*yawn* Vernneal, is there a model or any actual experiences you want to share about "Mcintosh"? No offense, but I'm not sure how much that comment actually added to the conversation. Anyway... Kiwi, I will admit that the Diablo is slightly more dry on my Quad ESLs 57s than my favorite tube amps that I've put on them in the past. But I do think that the Diablo scores a lot better in certain other areas. The original 57s are pretty different from all other ESLs (in my experience), so maybe that is why I think they sound good with the Diablo, whereas maybe some other ESLs would not sound so good. |
Primare I21 or I30. I have the most experience with the I21. Primare is by far one of the best audio designers out there. There simplicity approach proves nothing but the purest sound reproduction. Some say relaxed, but I think thats a cop out because its pretty sad how most of these companies review equipment any way. Give them an audition, also keep in mind Primare equipment is rarely available used and that say something. Can you find it used, yes but not nearly as readily available as other higher end contenders that many people claim to be the holy grail of audio. whole sale pricing and as a gift from my wife Theres a lot of BS in the HiFi world quoting an owner of a leading audio dist and manufacturer, told me that in his living room when auditioning an prototype turntable long story . Also customer service from The Sound Organisation is very good and same as for Sumiko for when they where they dists. |
I just bought the Ayon Spirit II and i'm very impressed with it. Out of curiosity I added the Pangea AC-9 and the amp went from very good to incredible sounding. The bass I'm getting from this integrated rivals some of my previous solid state amplifiers, and I had a few. This amplifier has one of the most fateful reproductions of tone or timbre that you'll ever hear. |
