Amp — Leave on or turn off
I always turned my Benchmark AHB2 amp off after use every night. After all, why is there an on off switch on the front panel if not to do that? Last night I accidentally left it on. This morning, when I played my first record, I couldn’t believe my ears. The same record I played last night sounded infinitely better. I tried a second record and that, too, was much better.
I know there’s a debate on the question of leaving an amp on all the time.
I now know where I stand!
The power-up condition triggers failures due to inrush current. In standard failure theory, the starting condition is always the toughest (it's the same for mechanical systems). Electrolytics are typically rated for 85C, which is actually quite low. They try to get nicer 105C rated ones for the supply. Unfortunately many amp designers don't think about thermal management enough. |
@jl35 I've repaired over 50 amplifiers. Leaving them on 24/7 definitely shortens their lifespan due the wet-electrolytic power supply capacitors failing. Pass knows this, but the failure is gradual (takes about 2000 hours) and he figures you won't be comparing your amp to a new one to notice the difference anyway. |
@soix You can look up ripple capacitor ratings yourself. Also, McCormack doesn't care if your caps are shot or not lol. He's in the business of selling amps. The degradation is gradual so you probably won't realize it until they bulge and blow a fuse. But I've repaired around 50 amplifiers at this point so I have seen it all. |
I'm using class D amps and they usually stay on 24/7, so does the Pass B1 preamp. I only turn them off if I leave for more than 24H. And when I do, it sure takes a little while to fully "bloom" again. Believe it or not, the only device I turn off at night is the DAC, because it draws more current than the rest (crazy, huh) and has this fluorescent display that you can't switch off and is, as all fluorescent displays, prone to aging. |
Unfortunately climate change is here to stay and the weather will absolutely get weirder for decades to come. Maybe our grandchildren will figure something out (shoot millions of tiny umbrellas into space?) but when the gulf stream stops, the ocean fish disappear, the permafrost lets out all its stored carbon, and forest fire smoke gives us all lung issues, we may take it all seriously, although that's unlikely. So leave your car running as hey...it works better all warmed up. Leave your amps on if you think it's important...turn the AC down low enough to use the fireplace in summer...go crazy...who cares? |
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+1 @charliee Few of his posts make any sense, and he’s nothing if not consistent which is why I no longer read any of his inane threads. My amp runs at 80 Watts at idle, which doesn’t kill the environment. All my lawn care equipment runs on batteries and all my vehicles are ULEV so pretty sure my environmental footprint is smaller than most even with leaving my amp on. |
@bigtwin So, in your 20 years in the insurance biz did you ever see a claim based on audio equipment being left on? How about a refrigerator? That’s always on, so how many claims did you see from a fridge causing a problem? The likelihood of an amp causing an issue from being left on is so small it’s downright laughable, and those yelling fire on this are just feckless alarmists IMHO. I take your point about insurance companies being stingy about paying claims — I had that happen once and am still pissed about it.
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Why all the controversy? Check with the manufacturer. Plinius told me to to leave it on all the time for maximum life since cycling on and off causes more wear and tear than just leaving it on and since it is a Class AB SS amp it draws very little current when not playing. My amp is 18 years old and counting (and I bought it very slightly used from a high end dealer who told me I don't "have to" leave it on, which suggests it is better to leave it on). I will say that even though it is always on, it seems to sound a little better after playing for a while. In fact, they moved the power switch to the back on the model that replaced mine (which is almost the exact same amp internally) to strongly suggest leaving it on. My phono stage and all those made by Sutherland have no power switch. so with that is isn't even a point of discussion. Same with Rega tables - they either turn or not. So everything is always on! If I was burning out expensive tubes I would probably turn them off and suffer through the warm up period. Interestingly enough, I was told the same thing from an Apple technical guy about my MacBook Air which I view through a 24" monitor. I use it as a server with a wireless keyboard and mouse. He said leave it on and plugged in with the lid shut. I think the less start up cycles with pretty much anything electronic, the better, when it is feasible. |
I also like to power down all my components at the end of the day, just before bedtime. Well, not exactly. All my components are plugged into a power conditioner, so when I turn them off, they are actually still on, but in stand-by mode, which prevents cold-starts, which allows things to sound much better when you do your initial power-up. Coming out of stand-by mode allows for it to take less time for things to warm up and to sound their best. I like doing it this way. It works for me. However, I suppose that nothing beats just leaving everything on all the time so as to keep things nicely warmed up and ready to go for the absolute best sound 24/7. |
@soix I worked in the insurance industry for over 20 years and can confirm that companies are always looking for ways to deny claims. People generally misunderstand an insurance contract. The majority of people view a policy as explaining all the protection they have. The reality is slightly different. An insurance policy is a legal contract that lays out the limits of liability the company has taken on. When viewed in that context, you start to understand that insurance companies are not looking for ways to help you out. They are looking for ways to limit their exposure at time of claim. To your point, is there a real chance an amp could lead to a claim? It's extremely remote. Is there a chance you could win the Power Ball Lottery? Even more remote but people still win it all the time. Should you be rude to another member because he/she expresses an opinion that you do not agree with? I think not. In fact, I think that is the worst attribute of Audiogon. The number of members who have lost sight of the fact they are only expressing their own opinions. And those opinions are generally no more or less valid than the next. IMHO. Cheers. |
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@soix re: your cavalier wording - fear mongering is a phrase best used when there’s a specific divisive purpose; I’m not in the biz of selling turn-‘em-off amps or insurance policies. I’ve no interest in pot-stirring. Perhaps I could’ve worded my first reply more explicitly: (1) know what your specific amp manufacturers recommend, and (2) take rec’ that as second-tier in importance to what your insurance policy stipulates. And (3?) do not trust you invariably know what’s best for both (1 and 2) factors for the next person while typing online. 😅 Forgoing knowledge of either (1) or (2) and leaving an amp on unattended amounts to abandonment of common sense that firefighters and claim adjusters will prefer you to practice, but maybe also know some folks disregard. Now @soix as to your conjecture above, it may be to your behest to realize one Audiogon poster lost his entire music room when a lightening strike took out the roof of the house a few weeks back, posted about it. Improbable vs. impossible is a relevant discrepancy on the topic of unattended high power amps being on. And for the past decade I’ve lived in a city where public transit is [in most cases] far more convenient than driving a private vehicle. My point being it is best to avoid straw man arguments if you’re unfamiliar with the underpinnings you choose. |
@soix +1 Mike |
@benanders Exactly how many people do you know who’ve had a fire hazard from audio equipment? It’s probably at about the same percentage as getting hit by lightning. Using your logic, you should probably never drive a car because you could get into an accident. Gimme a break with your fear mongering. |
@rvpiano I think it’s fine to bring up again. Good on ya. @bigtwin I think score-keeping will eventually fall into the hands of AI modules better suited for thread-summing than those currently employed by Google etc. For now, yeah, it’s still best just skimmed maybe. 😅 These threads can be useful for anyone hoping to check whether an individual poster has a tendency to conflate personal anecdote with meaningful evidence. Plenty of that on each thread like this. In this particular thread’s case there is a clear answer (best had from the manufacturer): Benchmark can be turned off unless one prefers to be marginally wasteful of energy. The class D amps that power my subs are no different and also have a 15 min auto-standby feature (was required by law for them to be sold in EU as opposed to in US). I specifically got away from tubes in most of my devices because of the antagonistic relationship of needing to warm up but also having a finite, heat-related lifespan for increasingly expensive tubes. Only one post mentioned insurance. Check your home/renter/RVauto insurance policy and if an amp-caused burn-down could be considered void due to a manufacturer’s recommendation to leave an amp powered on, then never mind said amp designer and always turn off your amp when not in use. If unclear on this, always turn off your amp when not in use (or at least when you’re not home/awake). It’s amazing to me the haphazard recommendations that will flow out of some folks as though nothing in life is bigger than a hobby of recorded music playback. Don’t unwittingly make a fire hazard or an insurance claim hazard. Once you know folks who’ve gone through this, you develop caution by virtue of proximity. It’s probably worth heeding more than a pile of anecdotes about how a handful of folks perceive unmeasurable differences in sound based on temperatures they can’t be bothered to record and report. 😉 |
The light bulb analogy is often used but it is not applicable IMO. All equipment I have owned has soft start circuitry to prevent damage on start up. Becoming an urban myth? I will only speak for my own equipment. The manufacturer specifically recommends turning their equipment off when not in use. Who am I to argue with them? I turn my SS equipment on +/- 2 hours prior to listening. I have never noticed the sound to be lacking, or improving noticeably as the evening goes on. Everyone should do what suits them. This is a discussion that will never be settled as there is no right or wrong. Anyone keeping score? 😆 |
Pass Labs told me recently, that there would be no issues with leaving high power Class A mono blocks turned fully on 24/7...would not shorten life or lead to repairs...I tend to turn mine on Thursday afternoon, off Sunday night, though maybe not in summer...agree there is no right answer, but a combination of manufacturer recommendation and your own ears and values... |
Leave it on. Caps in many amps take time to charge up fully and give best sound. I had a pair of Odessey monos with over 220 thousand uF. I found them difficult to listen to even after being on for an hour. I just left them on 24/7 after that and there was an obvious change for the better in sound quality. |
@aball What’s your evidence to support this? Steve McCormack advises to leave his amps on (again, not Class A SS amps) to the point when they do their amp upgrades they decouple the power switch so it’s just attached to a dummy light so the wife knows it’s on. If it’s plugged in, it’s on. My McCormack amp was powered on 24/7 for 20 years with no problems other than a fuse, which is pretty damn strong evidence. It defies logic/common sense that constantly cycling electronic components from cold to warm doesn’t put stress and wear on them. And what makes you smarter than Steve McCormack? |
I'm an electrical engineer who designs amplifiers, among many other circuits. Contrary to some other comments about power cycling, that's not the main issue with solid-state amps. The primary failure mode are the power supply electrolytics desiccating. When the amplifier is on, these capacitors must charge and discharge 432,000 times per hour. In high-bias amplifiers these capacitors have an exceedingly tough life and only last around 2000 hours. I've seen some Class A amps with them failed at 1200 hours. The best quality caps rarely last more than 5000 hours regardless. So I generally do not leave my amps on when I'm not listening to them. If I know I will be having a listening session on a Saturday morning, I will sometimes leave it on Friday night, but that's about it. |
A local dealer leaves their amps powered on 24/6. they shut down on sat nights. on monday AM opening the store the sound is noticeably off compsred to days after they were left on. the main rep says it takes two days for some of them to sound their best! My incidences tell me they sound best after 45 minutes or so I am not leaving my amps on 24 /7. I have a 40 year old pioneer receiver that still sounds great. i doubt it would be in the same condition being left on for 40 years. |
This is the language in the manual for my Creek amp: "It is appreciated by Hi-Fi enthusiasts that leaving equipment powered up continuously can Improve the performance. However, this small improvement in sound quality comes at the Expense of continuous power consumption from the mains, which will increase your electricity bill and also reduced working life of the product. The 100A draws approximately 20 Watts Of power when switched on and not producing a signal.
I just leave it on 24/7. |
I turn nearly all of my electronics off after listening. The only thing left on is the internet-modem/router. After powering up for listening, consistently the music sounds better after at least 1-hour of warmup. I'm not certain which components need that hour of warmup however some of my best listening happens in the evening and after the system's been running for hours before. Many of you I'd bet experience the same thing. My preamp has no easy to reach power switch and the mfg. says to leave it on unless you're not using the system for an extended period, however I shut it down. All of my amps are class-A so leaving them on 24/7 is not an option I choose. I've never left equipment on past my listening time unless it's purely by accident. And while I can't comment on improvements in sound over longer periods of time with equipment left on, I think it's whatever you feel/hear from doing it that should be your guide. |
By all means, keep your equipment on 24/7. Everything will sound better that way.. Remember that recording studios and broadcast stations keep everything they have on 24/7 so they'll aways be able to get the maximum performance from it whenever they need it. This includes the remote trucks too. And as pointed out, some equipment is designed for it, or requires it, such as class-a and tube equipment, and power conditioners and UPSes. If you power your equipment on and off it really won't be ready to give you the sound you appreciate sometimes for days after you turn it on, and you really don't spend that much money doing it. And I've found that my equipment lasts so much longer. I have 6 amps (Anthem, Denon, Sony), 5 Sonos Connects, a Parasound AM/FM tuner, a DAC, a Teac cd recorder, an Arcom cd player, a Revox RtoR, and a Carver preamp that are all on 24/7. Some of them are plugged into sine-wave UPSes, and my main stereo stack is on a Furman power conditioner. Everything is on 24/7. I also have a home data center with 4 servers, 2 switches, a router, 4 desktop boxes, and a wide-screen monitor, These are also on 24/7. All told I figured out this costs me around $50 per month. |
My Ayre V-5xe Amp on/off switch (front of amp) is really an on/stand-by switch. (The actual on/off switch is on the back of the unit.), which implies that the electronics have a low wattage draw that keeps them 'warmed' and ready when I 'turn on' the front switch. That being said - I agree that morning listening is markedly better than at other times. Line -noise? Low Humidity? Rest? Sum of all...? |
All ya need to do is leave your amp on for a day or two. Get yourself a good cheap thermometer and lay it near the hottest part of your amp (heat sinks).
Check the temp and remember. Let amps cool as a normal part of listening. Check cold temp and then redo checking temp until it gets to above temp. Now you can turn your amp off and know how long it will take to get to proper operational temperature. Win-win. You're welcome.
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