Hi Mapman,
The Zu Essence is widely accepted as the anomaly in the Zu lineup. In the same price range the Superfly or the Omen Defs are much more dynamic, lively, and each supply a large dose of the Zu House sound......... |
I'll throw my $.02 out there as I have heard both the Superfly and the Omen Def. The Superfly driver is a little different from that in the Omen line and though the general house sound makes them quite similar, they are a little different. The Superfly excels with dynamics, has a very rich midrange, and is less sensitive to placement than my Omen Defs. The Omen Defs have very good bass when paired with the right amp, and are fantastic with jazz, rock, electronica, and of course vocals and acoustic guitar. The Defs are very dynamic, and very transparent. The imaging and soundstage are great, though it took me a long time tweaking with the placement to get them dialed in.
The Superfly I found to be 5% more engaging especially with jazz and vocals. Each amp, and each upstream component that I change brings
an immediate and palpable change to my system. |
I agree with sebrof....enjoy guys:). Are any of you with the Lores in the Bay Area. I would love to compare them to my Omen Defs. They sound very similar based on your descriptions. |
Aberyclark: "I'm curious if the ZU's are $500 better sounding (which is personal taste of course) than the Lore's. "
There are a few additional things to consider:
1. Zu includes free shipping both ways with a 60 day return policy.
2. Resell value.
3. If I were looking at the $1500 price range, I would get a B stock pair of Superfly's (Zu just sold one this week for $1800). The Superfly HO Driver is better, it also comes with Mundorf caps, and has better internal (silver) wire.
On the other hand, I have not heard the Lores, but would love to and I hope to soon. If I were single I would just order a pair but my LR is full! The price to performance of the Lore is very high right now and I bet you would be very happy with either:) |
Cwazz: I would call Eric and speak with him, but it would be worth a try if you want to stay SS, to try a First Watt F3 or F5 or a clone of them. They have great tone, great bass, and are just fun to listen to, but If you really want to go to the kick a** level, then try the Pass XA 30.5. Huge soundstage, great bass, great tone, and a perfect match for high efficient speakers. They pair very well with my Zu Omens and I can't imagine they would be too different for you.
Would you mind shooting me a photo of the Bubinga finish? I was considering a pair to compare to my Zu's and that is the finish I was
considering. What was the added cost for that finish?
As for the pre, you might want to get a tubed pre to bring in a little warmth and also you can roll in different tubes to suit your taste. Having been in a bright system for way too long myself, that really helped me. |
Hahahaha.....I agree Devil Boy.....can't wait to hear more:) |
What amps have you guys who love the Lores found to be your favorite? I have a pair of Lores that I found locally on the way to me in a few days. Would love to hear your thoughts.
Cheers,
Morgan |
Sorry.....still no time between football and a full weekend of activities. I am breaking them in more, and will get back to you guys soon. |
Yes I have the Omen Defs and I found a local pair of Lores for a good price, so why not compare the two? Currently I am using a Decware mini tori and a Coincident Frankenstein with the Omen Defs. They both are fantastic, though the Frankenstein is the best amp I have owned, as well it should for the $$$:). Now I have taken my system to its peak (and it does sound great, but I am frustrated living in an apartment as I cannot really enjoy the fruits of my labor at the volumes I like). To get here, I spent much more $$$ than I should have spent and I need to downsize so that I can afford a downpayment soon. Then I will have a house, and can build another great system:). So, now my focus is on the best system I can
build for $3000. Wish me luck!
So far I am thinking the Lores, with the mini torii will be great and fit perfectly in my budget along with my Tranquility SE DAC and my Mac Mini.....I'll let you all know how they compare. |
Gpowered,
I have definitely found the Omen Defs to be very very sensitive to placement. And I have tried quite a few amps, and my favorites as far as bang for buck goes is the Melody I2A3, the mini Torii, followed by several others includimg the Art Audio PX-25 (I miss her:)) and the Frankenstein.
The Lores are coming in tomorrow night, and I will need to break them in as I think they only have 20 hours on them. What is the typical Lore break in time?
Good luck on your new pair. I am excited for my first pair to be here soon:)
Cheers,
Morgan |
Well I just hooked the Lores up and am breaking them in. They definitely need a good break in as they just have around 20 hours........
The comparison with the Omen Defs may not be so fair though....as the Defs feature the HO Driver, Mundorf cap upgrades, and upgraded cabling inside........which are all upgrades over the standard Defs.......and therefore retail at about 4x the Lores, but I like what I am hearing so far.....
Are there any special placement considerations? They seem pretty
simple to place...anyone with pointers? |
Fusion: Go for a Decware or a Manley. I had a mini Torii from Decware with the Lores and it was an amazing combination in my bedroom which is about the size of your room. Although for rock you may want want to check out one of the Decware amps with a few more watts.
If you have questions about the speakers, I would call the owner and ask him. Tell him your preferences and the size of your room and he can tell you what would be the best speaker for you. |
So I have been breaking the Lores in at low volumes for the last four days straight and now I am sitting down for a nice listen. First off, they have improved dramatically since Friday when they arrived. They are now much more open and dynamic and I am betting that in 100 more hours that they will be even more improved. Secondly, for the price, the Lores are fantastic speakers. I will need to spend a lot more time with them to give a more detailed review, but needless to say they are a no brainer for $1000 for anyone sitting on the fence. They are excellent with vocalists, acoustic, and the bass is not bad on rock and electronica though definitely less than with the Omen Defs.
My initial impressions before I A/B the two speakers is that they share a lot in common. The Omen Defs are a bit more efficient with a larger soundstage and deeper bass......but they both sound great to my ears. |
I ran my Omen Defs with a Pass XA 30.5 and it was amazing. I have had Emotiva though and I do not think the Emotiva will bring out the best in the Lores. I would recommend a Class A, warm amplifier. A DIY first Watt F3 for example would be a much better option than the Emotiva for around $500. |
Hi GPowered,
I think your point is worth emphasizing as most people on these boards simply read good or bad, but one big key is matching speaker with room! The Lores are amazing in a small room at nearfield, but I am sure the Pendragons, which are very similar to my Omen Defs, would be much better suited in a larger room. Not that the Lores are bad in a large room, but just not as large of a soundstage, less dynamics, and less bass than the larger speakers. Maybe one day I will get to compare the Pendragons to the Omen Defs. That would be a better comparison, and my guess is that I would prefer the tweeter in the Pendragons over the OD's. |
Hey guys,
Any Updates out there from Pendragon owners? I auditioned a pair locally last night and really enjoyed them. It is hard to compare them directly to my Omen Defs in a different room with a different set up, but overall they did sound great. Also what kind of amps are you guys running with your Pendragons?
Thanks,
Morgan |
Hi Guys.....I spoke with Eric today and yes there is an 8 Ohm Pendragon coming out soon in the next week or so. It obviously makes pairing with a SET amp a little more friendly. I also laid down my cash and will soon have a pair in my living room:). |
Yes, either speaker would pair well with the Nova. Zu paired with Peachtree for their Holiday sales in 2010 actually, and for the price and flexibility, it would get you started on a very nice system with either speaker. Though, neither of these commonly show up used. However you can find Zu specials on EBay and the Tektons are right at $1000 new. |
Singleguy: yes, both the Zu and the Lore excel in the human vocal range. That is where they are at their best at least in my set-up. |
Nice Socrates.....I have pair number two coming shortly....what are the strengths and weaknesses? Your favorite music on them? |
Nice Socrates.....I have pair number two coming shortly....what are the strengths and weaknesses? Your favorite music on them? |
Goraman: thanks for posting your thoughts and experience! I'm quite interested as I inquired with Eric about upgrading my Pendragons to better caps before shipment. However, I decided to delay my gratification a bit so to speak so that I can later appreciate the improvement:).
Would you mind sharing a few things: which caps did you like the best and what size are they? How do you change out the resistors in the crossover?
And which cables are you using btw?
Thanks for the 411.
GPowered: which cables are you using? |
I agree John,
No sibilance at all with the Lores or Pendragons in my system. They are the least fatiguing speakers I have ever owned or heard and I have a very sensitive ear due to Tinnitus.
It has taken me a while to understand the concept of synergy, which in my mind means that as I change one component, I.e. speakers I may have to change the associated cables, amp, Pre amp etc to maximize the end result, which for me is that golden magical moment. It has nothing to do with a measurement for me, but just trusting my own hearing and a lot, I mean a lot of trial and error.
I too have never put much effort into my cables, but am now opening up to that possibility. I have nice quality cables now, but I have not A/B tested any in the past. However with highly sensitive speakers, and in a 100 year old Victorian building, I have found power conditioning to be of the utmost importance. I use an UberBuss and love it. I have also spent a lot of time, energy and money to match amp, Pre-amp, and DAC with my room and my speakers. There are so many variables in any system that the tweaks are limitless! From speaker positioning, to cables, etc. etc....
I am curious about the effects of Capacitor changes on the Tektons, and I even discussed options with Eric as he was building a pair for me, but I decided to wait due to the cost, and in the end I did not feel the need to change anything.
|
HI Rischa,
I used the Lores as have others on this thread with a SET and had phenomenal results. I am now pairing the Pendragons with a Decware Tori and I prefer this combo to a SET in my very large room as I like to listen to more dynamic music.
If you are pairing the Lores in a Small to medium sized room and not listening to complex music, then a SET will work beautifully.
I found the pairing of the Lores with the Mini Torii to be phenomenal in my bedroom. The combination was absolutely out of this world in a small room with any type of music.
As you can see there is no right or wrong answer. They are set friendly but it depends on your preferences and set up more so than the imitation of the speaker.
|
Finsup: Thanks for the awesome write up. You got the first pair of 8ohm Dragons and I the second and I am still smiling. Your review was spot on with my experience. I love the fact that they are so musical with good and not so good recordings. I have mine paired with a Decware Torii and I highly recommend that you try the pairing if you can get your hands on one. Keep up the good work on the blog and we will keep reading:). |
Whoops......late night wine typo! Thanks Socrates! |
Goraman: I have my Dragons in a larger space but I first heard them at a fellow Audiogoners condo where his room was about your size and they sounded great. They sound phenomenal in the near field just as the Lores do. I have to say that I am a bit biased though as I would love to hear/see your tweaks for the Dragons.
BTW: The the new 8 ohm Dragons in Black are pretty nice looking. The drivers are a blue grey and the look is much better than I thought it would be. |
Sionlim: Where do you live and what kind of music do you listen to? If you list that sometimes you can easily get an audition. I found the Pendragons from someone coming to my house to buy an amp!
The Pendragons perform exactly as Goramon suggested: Layers of extended bass that are very tight and defined. Absolutely no whooliness! They can be ported in the front if that is better for your room btw.
If you don't need a lot of bass, and your room is small, and you want to save $$$, the Lores are a no brainer. Having said that the Pendragons will easily work in your sized room no problem. |
HI Sionlim.....I am in San Francisco also.....shoot me an email m1organ at gmail. I would be happy to have you over sometime for a listen.....
As far as the bass comments, I was not trying to say the Lores have insufficient bass, but merely saying they have much much less than the Pendragons. Also I was saying this in regards to Sionlims comments about not needing a lot of bass. I have owned both the Lores and the Pendragons btw. In my bedroom, which is maybe 12x15, the Lores were ideal. In my living room of 20x40, the Lores were too small and the bass lacking except in the nearfield where they were superb!
The bass in the P-Dragons is actually almost too much as I live in a Victorian....thank goodness one neighbor is 90 and deaf and the other travels alot! |
Thanks Genjamon....to continue your discussion about placement to the Pendragons, I have found them to be very sensitive to small changes also and I have just spent much time moving them and yet I still that I need to keep working to get them just right. Their bass can easily overload a room and the soundstage and dynamics all change with each tweak.
I have not tried tipping them up or down as I do not know what size footers that I could use with them. I will have to give Eric a call tomorrow...... |
Hi Goraman....where are you located? I would love to hear the improvements that you made with your Lores. Wanna email me? |
Hi guys,
I am updating my 'Dragons with Mundorf Silver in Oil Caps and Mundorf Resistors this week. It will take a few weeks of break in and then I will update you all. I'm also going to build some bass traps that are much needed in my space. Does anyone else have any comments on their Dragons? |
G Powered what are the other upgrades that you are considering and what are you looking to improve? I'm upgrading my caps also and maybe looking at the wiring, etc. |
GPowered: I upgraded to the Mundorf Silver in Oil Caps for the 'Dragons this week and the improvement was not small nor subtle. It was a huge upgrade even before any cap breakin. I have a Mundorf Resistor to install also but I am going to have Eric make the new Crossover for me so I have not added that in yet. For anyone wanted a major upgrade, this is it and right now the caps are on sale at Parts Connection.
The vocals have more body, more three dimensionally, and are silky smoothe. Overall tone, timbre, and balance are much improved. It is about $500-600 to upgrade (and that's the sale price), but it is a major improvement and improves on an already great speaker.
My next step is to add much needed bass traps to my living room as I still get boominess from the speakers and I have several bass nodes, but I am now quite content with the speakers.
I am running them now with a two watt 45 amp from Don Allen (yes two watts) and the imaging, soundstage,clarity, and detail and pure musical enjoyment level are all amazingly high. I also have a Decware Tori mk III that is a fantastic match also but the bass from it overwhelms my room at the moment so I am mostly using the two watt 45 and it plays well up to 75 dB or so at my listening position. |
Hi GPowered: It is quite easy to change the caps, though the challenge is that the Mundorfs alone are each as large as the entire previous crossover,and therefore not so easy to install using the old crossover board. The changes I made were simply upgrades to the parts using the exact same specs. Basically, I hacked out the old caps and just soldered in the new ones in a temporary quick fix situation, meaning it wasn't pretty and I was glad it didn't short out!
Then upon hearing how nice everything was sounding, I asked Eric if he would kindly build me a new crossover using the new caps and resistors and of course he agreed to do so for a nominal fee. So now he has them and will send them back to me on a new board which then will require me to just re wire it. I'm far from a DIY guy, but it should not take more than a half hour to complete and well worth it.
As for the placement, yes the Dragons love space in my room. I have them about 5 feet from the rear wall and about 9-10 feet apart and I sit about 10-11 feet back. I found a huge improvement when I took out the measuring tape and laser and positioned them with perfect symmetry. The imaging and soundstage is really spectacular now with the amp that I am using.
Next step for me is a pair of bass traps and to take some measurements to even out the bass as my room is a bit fussy. |
You could mix caps for sure but who knows the outcome? You definitely do not want to change the cap values as that would change the crossover point. A better compromise IMO would be the regular Mundorf Supreme at a fraction of the cost and probably 85% of the improvement.
However, I would guess that any decent cap would be an upgrade as the ones that come stock are not that high of quality and chosen for a given price point.
A very important point to keep in mind with this upgrade is that a 10% improvement for $200-600 dollars for the Mundorfs or SIO is much greater than any amp or DAC or Pre-amp change would produce. |
I am in San Francisco and now have the Pendragons if you want to come by sometime let me know. You can PM me on Audiocircle if you want...... |
Hi Audioman,
I have the Mundorf Caps SIO in my Pendragons along with the Mundorf Supreme Resistors and I did find the break in process to be very long and not so pleasant at times as has another friend of mine with the same set up. And yes the improvement over the stock Caps and Resisitors was quite dramatic. However, now they are really singing. I am equally impressed with these speakers with a 2 watt Decware Zen and an 18 Watt AN 211. Hopefully I won't regret my decision to sell these in the hope of "upgrading"..........:) |
Hi Ecruz.
I'm not sure how/why the tweeter in the Lore is preferable to my ears....but it was. And it's been so long that it wouldn't be fair to really even write about the differences I heard as my memory is horrible! Simply put the Lore had a bit more sparkle on the top in and it wasn't "bright" in any way at all. |
You have to remove the lower woofer and the crossover is glued to the center brace. You have to pull it out and then you will have to cut the wires to pull it out. It would be very tight to work on it inside the cabinet.
If you mod the crossover, you will need to rebuild The entire crossover from scratch, oral east I did. The good news is that the parts are very inexpensive so it's not costly. |
I just forced mine out. It came out easily and the bracing was quite strong. |
I had both the Lores and the Pendragons also and wish that I still had the Lores in my bedroom! If my memory is correct, the drivers in the two are the same with the significant differences being in the tweeter and the speaker size. With the smaller size, The bass on the Lore is much easier to tame than that of the 'Dragon (my main room is not treated and has a few bass nodes). And, yes the soundstage is smaller with the Lores, but other than they are very similar speakers. As for the tweeter, I preferred the single tweeter in the Lore to the three in the 'Dragon. If I were to do it again, I do believe the Lores paired with dual servo subs would be superior to the Dragons at a similar price point. |
