B rodgers - think of all the possibilities of low watt tube amp and SET amps you could run now. Forgot the Maggies (subjective), which require big power. Looks like you just took a serious short but in the right direction. I've never owned Maggies, but heard the MMG's and 3.6's. I have owned my share of Logans, a pair Quads, and Carver Amazing Speakers. They are fun but big, power hungry, and may not have the amazing focus of a single driver. Of course it's all about tradeoffs, but the high efficiency thing is an entire different world that begs for exploration. Happy listening! Jeff |
Hi. I have my Lore's on order as well in beautiful white and he said they should ship next week. I have been speaking to a guy that has them and his impressions are favorable with about 120 hours on them. He is driving them with a SE84 Decware amp that puts out max 2 watts per side, with good results. Email me if you want to see his impressions. I wouldn't be too concerned with what the reviews say. I have used many loudspeakers over the past 2+ years, most of which have had excellent reviews, yet most of them left something to be desired. The high efficiency thing is really a benefit. I have owned:
MA 5i
Paradigm Studio 60 v4
Dynaudio Focus 220 II, Confidence C1, Audience 70 and 42
Von Schweikert VR4 Jr II
Quad ESL 989
PSB Synchrony One
PSB Gold Stratus I
Rega RS7
Silverline SR12
Martin Logan Ascent
Looking forward to hearing a single driver speaker and getting into SET and low powered amps! Remember, the reg Lore used an Eminence driver and is much like the well regarded Hammer kit - many people swore by it back when Eminence sold it with the modified driver. I will post a review at some point!! Looking to driver mine with a set of Quicksilver Mini Mites |
I am not sure exactly, but I have a local friend that has it. I will find out the details and post back. What I do know is the guy that ordered the mods for Hammer has passed on so Eminence is no longer making it to that past spec. Word is that is doesn't sound quite as good as it did before. We are hoping that Eric's Lore will be a step in the right direction. We will know shortly! |
Telescope - if you are looing for big dynamics then perhaps the Def is the way to go with 2 drivers. But I am willing to bet the Lore is going to be a more refined speaker. Hope you are getting a nice deal though because twice the money is quite much for just one additonal driver. The driver's are worth $100 each tops. Just a thought. |
B rodgers - thanks for your great review!! BTW did you ever get the grills or did you just let that go?? What was he wanting to charge for that option? |
Sounds good. The speaker is not designed to run w/ a grill anyway, although having a 4-5 mth old and a 2.5 year old, it sure would be nice when not in use. Can you send a pic of your finish? Thx |
I agree with Zman... the Lores, like any efficient design, will reveal flaws upstream. On the other hand, it will reward you with postive changes. I would strongly suggest an upgrade(or fix) on the amp when finances permit.
But in regard to the back wall, that shouldn't be an issue really since these are front ported. There is another guy I know that is doing that and I have tried it. Overall, the presentation is basically the same, however, the soundstage is a little more horizontal opposed to realizing the depth capabilities that this speaker can attain. But I suppose that would be true with just about any speaker that is parked up against the back wall. |
One of my new Lores arrived today. The other will be here in the morning. I ordered them in satin white and they look stunning. Very "clean" look to them. Quality is way up there for the price. I am driving mine with a Decware SE84 for now. Possibly worth noting, I had Eric wire mine up with Van Den Hul C12, 12awg internal wire. Not that it will make that much of a sonic difference but Eric is great about accomadating so I figured why not wire it up with something to my liking. He used a OFC 18awg copper standard which I am sure is fine. I will report on the sound as soon as I get some hours but I am exepting great things.
I chose the Lore over the Omen because of the horirble Zu measurements out there that scared me (no offense to Zu owner and I have not heard them for the record), and I was partial to Eric's design because he addressed phase and cabinet dampening at the this price point. |
My honest initial thoughts after 15+ hours are very favorable. This a very balanced speaker with a deep soundstage. Imaging is among the best I have heard - very tightly focused. Excellent dynamics and adequate bass. The system responded better to Type 2 Litz copper IC's opposed to silver, but it may be a better design with the copper IC 's. I am getting a very refined presentation that I hadn't experienced anywhere near this price before. One thing apparent is at 98db efficient, I can hear everything else in the system as well. Finally, we have a transducer that lives up to the hype at a real world price. This one just may get me off the merry-go-around. More to come... |
Eric addressed some of the things that from what I heard from the majority that have Zu, you may have to step up to SuperFly to get. He addressed phase issues and better cabinet dampening. He told me he didn't leave any stones unturned, and now that I have them and am listening... I agree it is fact. These are excellent. You shouldn't need a sub with any of these for music. In fact, you may lose the accuracy and beautiful tone of the excellent Eminence driver in either design. Of course for HT I could understand you needing some rumble... |
You will need a sub for movies regardless. Main speakers can't do the lfe effect like a sub can. Likewise, a sub is near impossible to blend into a stereo if you desire all of advantages that a high efficiency single driver transducer has to offer. The extra driver (added dynamics, bass) could be at the expense of the "magic" that a simple single full range design has to offer. Take a look at all of the best high efficiency speakers out there and I am not sure I can think of any with multiple drivers. Not saying the dual driver is bad, because some prefer the dynamics but it may not be as articulate in the upper bass, midrange, and I can't imagine it disappearing and imaging like a single driver can. But power and dynamics it will do. i don't think bigger is better here, and if it is lfe you desire again a sub is necessary unless it is a powered sub speaker like a Def Tech or something. Best of luck and no matter what, have fun! |
About 35 hours in now and the Lores are getting better and better. After experimenting with placement, I have found they sound much better pulled out from the back wall. They are about 3.5 to 4ft from the back wall now and I am getting a tremendously deep, 3D soundstage. This is what I like! The drummer is clearly in the back of the stage, while the bass guitar is 3D off the right a bit, and vocals just in front of the stage but slightly recessed, as it should be, depending on the recording. To my ear, most conventional speakers make everything sound similar. These are front ported so they can sit close to the back wall and still have decent sound, but I think one would lose the holographic magic that a single full range driver can accomplish. Bass and tone are excellent, BUT!!!... I had to get placement just right for that to happen. At first, I couldn't understand why they just didn't sound musical. It was because placement was off. It seems to play all music well so far. Not a whole lot to complain about, with the exception that they are fussy about placement. I would ensure you can set up away from the back wall so for some of you that may lead to some WAF negotiations, lol. |
I am around 80-90 hours now, and I am now running my Lores with Quicksilver Mini Mites. The Decware SE84c was also a great combo but the Quicksilvers suit me better for the music I listen to and the size of the room. What a heavenly combination this is, guys! Wow! A deeeeeeeeep, holographic soundstage and amazing musicality and dynamics. Tone is thick, tight, and musical. This is the perfect match. I am also running a Cary CDP-1 cdp with a Dcca powercord. Cables are all Q-cable pure copper type 2 litz.
I could not imagine someone opting to spend more $. This is best system I've owned, better than $12K + systems I've owned. I honestly do not detect any weaknesses with this setup. It is that good! I have been kicking this hobby around since '99 and it has never been so enjoyable. The Lores get better and better... in every positive change I have made on my front end, the Lores have responded with better clarity, extension, realism, dynamics, you name it!
I have to admit, with respect, thank the good Lord I stayed this course and did not order the competition. The Lores are fantastic!! I will report back when everything is broken in. The Mini Mites only have 25 hours on them so this is system is not even at its potential. |
Great review, Zman. I have about 70 hours on mine now and they are really opening up now. Very dynamic and resolution is unbelievable. I am still driving mine with the Deware SE84c SET, but my Quicksilver Mini Mites will be here Wed. for a face off. The system is very revealing, thus any changes I make in the chain (speaker cable, IC's, powercords), all seems to make a substantial difference in tone and overall sound. Moreso than any other speaker I've owned and that includes some that are 5-10x the price. That says allot! For any of you considering a well known conventional brand up to $10K, I would seriously look at the Lore!! This is coming from someone that has been down those roads and this purchase has me missing none of the loudspeakers I've ever owned before.
The Lore's strengths are:
Very balanced and seamless design
Superb mid range - vocals sound great!
Good lower end - but more in class of qaulity, rather than quantity although it isn't deficient
Very musical
Great tonal shading - now this one that is a must for me! As with most speakers, this is easier accomplished with a good tube front end
Value - truly off the charts!
The Lore's weaknesses are:
I will have to get back to you on this one... I honestly can't think of anything that I am "missing," other than perhaps to see what these do with more power
|
Cpapace - Eric did tell me that he had one scheduled, and I believe it was with Stereophile. But you do understand how this industry works, right? If not, heres something for you to consider:
Reviews are fun to read and have their value in some cases when the flavor or intent of the designer is revealed somewhat accurately, but most reviews are "paid for" and there are other industry strongholds in place to consider. One usually has to spend money on advertising his/her product in a magazine before the mag will even think of reviewing them. So then, if someone is pumping advertising revenue into your account, are you going to trash them and give them a bad review on anything? Take a look at most reviews today and you will see my point. The reviewer will focus on the positives and the general theme is that the product is fair to excellent value but is not going to take down the giants.
They have to protect the big guys - it keeps the industry strong and in good order. Your best bet is to listen to end users like us. Forget the reviews. They all should be subjected to toilet reading... IMO. |
Sukihock - wise choice, I admit I have not heard the latter, but I know a couple experienced (note: experienced; not home theater dorm kids) audiophiles who have and one of them didn't care much for it, while the other liked it but not enough to keep him from upgrading to the SuperFly. For those that know me, I go through speakers like hot cakes. I've owned over 15 speakers in the past 3 years. Just ask my wife... I have driven her nuts, lol. Guess what, the Lores are a KEEPER!! Get some good tubes for the front end and get ready for a treat! |
Hi Sukihocck - a major advantage of the Lore is its ability to run full range from the Eminence driver. The tweeter never calls attention to itself. I cannot distinquish the mids from the treble like most conventional speakers - it is truly seamless in that regard. Yes, the Audax tweeter only handles 3Khz and up so this is basically a x-overless design.
As far as the temperature/tone... that will depend entirely on your front end. The Lore is extremely transparent. But I am surely tube biased. You can read my previous comments to have an idea of what it sounds like with single ended and Quicksilver amps. Driven with a good front end and source, there are really no flaws to mention. The Quicksilver combination is perfec IMO. |
I am not having any trouble accessing the new Tekton website. Man those Katz 3's look nice!! A true 94db speaker that is supposed to compete with some of the more expensive offerings at B&W. Interesting... |
Sebrof - good to hear you are happy with the Omens. I have heard mixed comments about them. I can understand you going that route since you own a pair of Tektons already. But as far as looks, I disagree on that! The Lore is a much better looking speaker IMO and easier to set up with port in the front. The Omens would surely have to be lifted. Eric is also more flexible in terms of customizing the product. He is all about voice of the customer. I handpicked and sourced my internal wiring. For another buyer, he is designing one with rear ports.
Another important fact to mention, is one has to remember that Eric is a carpenter, as well as an electronics guy, so he is able to keep is overhead down by doing everything himself. That is a huge advantage to the end user. There is very little non value added activity costs to pass down to the customer. Lastly, he doesn't spend big $ on advertising, so that explains why he is able to address weaknesses in his $850 model Lore. The customer is essentially paying little, if anything for R&D and design teams paycheck. This is great news for us! Just think this is important information for some of yo out there that do not take this product seriously because of the lower price tag. This price will surely not last when people start to realize how good it is. |
Mark, much respect to you brother. After all, you were the guy that started this thread and got me looking in this direction anyway. Question: a couple months back that wrote that you initially liked the Omens, but there were a few issues to contend with. What were those issues and what did you end up doing? |
I am just going to come out and say it guys! I have crossed the 150 hour mark now. I have listened to my entire CD collection. The honeymoon phase is over. Look folks, it is official. Eric is giving these speakers away! Again, I am just a normal guy - no affiliation with Tekton Design - 3 kids and a limited budget. I have downsized from a $14K rig, to this $5K rig, and have not missed a beat. I will say it again - the Lores are the BEST speakers I have heard in any room I have had. From an overall standpoint, better than any speaker I've owned, and up there with the best. This includes a pair of Dynaudio Confidence C1's ($7,600 w/ stands), PSB Synchrony Ones ($5K), and Quad ESL 989's ($8,500). To see the full list, email me or refer back to an earlier post. Sure, Dynaudio's Esotar 2 tweeter can hardly be touched in terms of detail, and the accuracy and pinpoint focus of a C1 is hard to beat. Likewise, the mid range, tonal quality, musicality, and emotional involvement of the Quads is untouchable, but from a full package standpoint, which to me, includes: full range capability, detail, transparency, balance, phase response, musicality, detail, micro detail, mid range, bass, tone, dynamics, efficiency, and band for buck ... the Lore is the hands down winner!! I see this as the possible future direction in high end audio. Grab yourself 25 high qaulity tube watts, and the Lores will play over 100db, clean!!! No problem.
I am completely amazed by the bass and dynamics of the Lore. But even better it is the real deal - the complete package - a beauitful deep soundstage, breathtaking vocals/midrange, transparency, air and detail, and a tight, thick and rich low end with plenty of extension. Perhaps someone more critical or experienced than I would find a single fault with it. I did with all other speakers I owned; but not with the Lore, not yet anyway. Granted, it is not rational to expect the Lore to play down into the 20's. But on stuff one would it expect it to do, it delivers well beyond expectations. One thing is for sure - the $850 price is not going to be going for long, but even at a grand these are a bargain. |
Mlg - I can send some pics of my Lores in Satin white if you want. Email me. Very clean look. As far as internal cable, I went with Van Den Hul C12, 12 awg internal wire, but I am sure 4TC is fine. You may want to stay with what you like to use for sc's, that is if you can stick with something. Most of us jump around.
Just to answer a few posts back: the Lore does not have a "house sound." It sounds exactly like what you feed it with. It's quite amazing in that way. If you get them and they sound warm/bright, it is due to what is upstream.
I recommend tubes all the way with these. I am using Quicksilver Mini Mites - a great match!! |
Sounds like this thread is really picking a steam!! The Almarro amp sounds awesome! The QS mini mites are working out great too. A beautiful match for the Lores. The mid range is "electrostic-like," but the biggest surprise has been this new IC and speaker cable from Q Audio! It is a twisted Milloit braid with no fillers or plastics, etc. - designed to elliminate skin effect and proximity effect. I am telling you I have never heard highs and instruments like this before! Nothing is rolled off at all. Listening to Allison Kraus & Union Station live tonight about blew me out of my chair! Gorgous sound - haha I can't believe this is an $850 speaker. You guys that have a set on order are in for a treat. Give them 150 hours break in! I am still hearing differences in over 200 hours.
I hear Zman has has a great cable too! |
Use a good copper Litz wire. Type 2 copper Litz from Q Audio is the best cable I have heard, and really "woke up" the Lores. Made me realize I was listening "rolled off" prior to using it. I am still in disbelief how "real" everything sounds now. |
The Q cable I am using is similar to 4TC, in that it is a twisted configuration, but transcends it because it is a type 2 litz which means it is a "twist of a twist." Not only is it effective as shelf shielding, but it completely eliminates skin and proximity effect. It is evident by how nothing sounds rolled off. I testify to you that this is a world class cable. 4tc is not. This is a case where you really have to forget the reviews and magazine ads and try for yourself. If you research what works best with SET and low powered setups, it is frequently Litz or just look at what Tommy Horning puts in his amazing Horn Hybrid speakers silk cut Litz.
Just a thought, if I was to go with solid core, I would be much more apt to go w/ Zman's design over Speltz. Reason: he go's the extra mile with the Cryo treating and twisting it. Speltz is just a solid core wire nothing to it really. |
Congrats Boniccie - don't forget to give us a nice write up!! They take a good 200 hours to fully break in so be patient. You wll notice them playing more effortless and having the ability to move more air as time goes on.
To all of Lore guys - please post your reviews at audioreview.com I was the first to review the Lore there and I am sure Eric would appreciate it. This is surely "the find" at such a great price, and I wouldn't want to see the price increase due to lack of a following, etc.
God bless all of you!! |
Zman - review at audioreview pending... ? Would luv to hear you share. God bless! |
"03-22-11: Cwazz
Just for the record Eric reccomended Kimber 4tc to me , for the Lores ."
Cwazz (Threads | Answers | This Thread) |
Cwazz - what are you driving your Lores with, and what source? Also, Zman told me about this trick... tilt them back slightly and the bass will tighten and sound more natural. You may be used to a different type of speaker's bass???
Room, placement, and front end + cables can have everything to do with that. The Lore's bass is not muddy. Give it more time to loosen up also. |
Restless_times: just an FYI, Eric will do a satin finish at NO CHARGE on the following colors: black, white, grey, blue, and burgendy. So there you go! No real need to spend the extra money unless it is high importance to you. |
Hey guys! 2 months + in now... fully broken in... and COMPLETELY satisfied with my Lore / Quicksilver Mini Mite / Cary cdp-1 / Q cable setup. They just keep sounding better and better. I honestly believe after all of the systems I've had, this one is really special in terms of real high end value. I am off the A'gon train. Guess I'll set up a little home theater now, lol. God bless! |
Just a quick note to mention: after 250+ hours of run in with ALL equipment, I have noticed a great amount of focus and precision in the soundstage. It is as deep and 3 dimensional as any system I have had, and beyond. It is really quite remarkable for a $1K pair of speakers. People I am telling you - the sound from the Lores is so amazingly realistic, I pity the individual that decides to spend 5x this to get the same result. Live music recordings are BREATHTAKING!! Granted, I have made good choices in system matching and the synergy is all there, but if you are on the fence or stuck looking at competing offerings, do yourself a favor and choose the Lores - they are nothing short of amazing!
Again, I have owned:
Dynaudio Focus 220 II
Dynaudio Confidence C1
Dynaudio Audience 70 and 42
Paradigm Studio 60v4
PSB Synchrony One
PSB Stratus Gold I
Von Schweikert VR-4 Jr
Rega RS7
Quad ESL 989
Carver Amazing Speakers
Martin Logan Ascent
Dali Ikon 2
Silverline SR12
Kirksaeter Prisma 50 (home theater)
All of these had their strengths and weaknesses, and most of them cost much more than the Lore. The Lore is a completely different animal it plays extremely loud but at the same time is as delicate and focused as the best of them. No frequency sounds detached - that is perhaps the most profound truth to these. Its highs are crystal clear and beautiful, while the mid-range is second to only the Quads I owned - that is really saying something! The lows are tight and very articulate, but again do not expect a $1K single driver speaker to shake the earth the laws of physics will not allow it. But as other have said here the lows are of good qaulity.
The bigger speakers above (e.g. Carvers) had more bottom end then the Lore, but I enjoy the total package of the Lore much more than ALL of these
and I am sure that some of that has to do with all of the money I was able to save.
Again, to Christ be the glory and I am grateful that there are honest guys like Eric delivering the goods affordably. |
Genjamon - Thanks for the review!! Don't forget to write a review for audioreview.com when they get some miles on them.
So is it safe to say that these deliver just as much, if not more than the Soul SuperFly's at less than half of their price!?? That is quite a statement! Also, and as you know... you are no where near potential. They will take much more time to fully loosen up, and believe me when I tell you that a Kaizen will occur! Also, changes in front end would surely add/subtract tone from the presentation, but I can see what you are saying... and I TOTALLY agree, the Lore is by far the most convincingly "live" sounding speaker I have owned. So much that live recordings have been the point of focus for me these days!
In Christ, JL |
I used a Decware se84cs and it was decent, but no where near the level of the Quicksilver Mini Mites! Try and go for 15+ watts if you are looking for full potentional. Eric has suggested 20+ watts. I would think the Peachtree would be really nice, although not at the level of Quicksilvers but i realize you get allot in the Peachtree package. Congrats by the way!! |
Jarrett,
Your placement sounds great to start. You may want to experiement with toe in. I have mine in toed in a bit. Also, loosen the front spikes and get the speaker tilting back a bit - zman told me about this tweak for single driver speakers and it makes the bass sound even more natural. It is good that you have them off the back wall! If you sit a little but close to them, you should get an amazingly deep sound stage. Also, allow 150 hour for break in! Enjoy! |
04-08-11: Sebrof "No, he did not say that. He said he heard a couple of songs on the Superflys in a hotel room.
Easy, tiger."
I realize you own Omens and Tekton speakers. Please do not take any of what I am about to say as negative. I am sure there are many happy Zu owners out there that will read what I am about to say, and perceive as negative or become discontent with their purchase. This is not my intent! At the end of day all that matters is sound quality / design execution, and all of us know personally whether we made the right choice or not. Not one of us has made the right move every time I have surely been on both sides.
With that said, I am hoping to hear the Zu line for myself at some point so I can make my own judgment once and for all, but I have some inside information that tells me the Lore transcends every speaker in the Zu line up, all the way up to the Essence. I cannot state this as conclusive, but research and plain common sense, along knowing how good the Lores are first hand compared to what else I have owned, I believe I have strong indication.
The fact is, Eric helped Zu design some of its offerings - he gets my nod for aptitude when it comes to engineering and speaker building. Does Zu have this level of talent in design and engineering of a loudspeaker? I am not sure.
It sounds like you may have fallen into pricing deceptions by believing the Lore should compare only to $1K-$1,500 loudspeakers. I wouldnt get hung up pricing not in this case. Eric does not advertise, and he has less overhead, therefore he can sell a loudspeaker for allot less if he chooses to. He has disclosed that he is hoping to really get his business off the ground with this new Lore model, which reasonably explains why he packed so much into a lower priced offering.
You have seen the list of speakers I have owned, have you not? It is no fluke this speaker is really that good.
Contrary to Omen, the Lore:
cabinet is tuned for phase accuracy and damped properly. It weighs more as a result.
has no strange modification of an already well designed Eminence driver the whizzer is not cut out with a utility knife and modified with a phase plug for an undisclosed reason it may enhance some areas but what else is it doing??? Is this why Zu speakers measure so poorly?
doesnt have an inverted tweeter housing with no function other than looks (it is not a horn, so what is it)???
tweeter is better I have seen the tweeter that Zu uses in the Omen and it is inferior to the Audax Super Tweeter |
I should also add that the Lore cabinet is tuned for proper bass weighting, etc. As Eric put it to me months ago, long before I heard them... "everything in this loudspeaker has been addressed."
Good to hear from you Zman!!! |
04-08-11: Sebrof "The Lore and Omen are so close in design I can't imagine that one would be head and shoulders over the other."
They are close in design, yes... but the Lore uses a completely different tweeter - that alone will change the sound, and on top of that the whizzer is in tact and the cabinet is braced and damped to a higher standard, as well as tuned differently. All of that will add up to a different sound - how much different none of us know, yet...
As for your situation, I agree and I never meant any disrespect by what I said, and at this point none of us know the margin anyway. It is good to have diversity... but I am definitely not over the top on what I say. The Lore purchase finally got me off the speaker go around.., and that for me is reason to rejoice!! |
In regard to Cwazz comment about them being bright: understand that the Lore is not a rolled off sound. It took me a little while to get used to this aspect of them. I've had bright / hot sounding speakers before and the Lore is not that. Actually, it pains me to even hear someone say that, because I am EXTREMELY sensitive to bright sounding speakers and these would have been out the door quick if that were trhe case. I cant even listen to some Monitor Audio speaker for instance.
If you are experiencing some issues with brightness, I would strongly advise to check out the rest of your chain and look closely at your room. At 98db eff. and this full range driver, they are going to reveal EVERYTHING. If you are after a warmer sound, there are plenty of loudspeakers out there that roll things off. Also, no speaker will sound good a brittle room, although a warmer speaker might be easier on the ears.
Now, in regard to the light bass comment... understand that the Lore is not going to kick you in the chest at 30hz. It would unwise to believe that any $1,000 speaker could do that, unless it was seriously compromised in other (and likely all) other areas. |
RE: bright comment.
When I was breaking in my Lores, I was using entry level Nordost cable. The sound was very thick in the bottom end, and the presentation tilted to the side of warm. It was nice, but I felt like I may have been missing some resolution and fidelity. When I switched the Q Audio litz wire, I was no less then shocked by the result (for more info see my Q cable review at Audioreview.com). It was like someone turned on the lights in my system. It sounded a little bright at first, because I was hearing all of these high frequencies that were previously rolled off! It also sounded a little thinner than it was, but I soon realized that this was a more natural and accurate presentation then what I had been used to. When the recording is true to it, there is plenty of bass and all of that natural tone I desire. I am simply relying on the recordings to deliver that, and not the flavor of the system. For those of you after a certain type of flavor, a revealing loudspeaker such as this may not be the ticket.
Anyway, after it settled in, and I get used to it, I loved it! I simply wont use another cable with the Lores now. Granted, keep in mind I am using some serious amplifiers. The Quicksilver Mini Mites, though not expensive, are the best sanely priced amps I have heard and changes in cables can make dramatic differences (same is true with all good tube gear).
Now if I was to walk downstairs and hook this cable up in my HT system with a Denon receiver, Blu-ray player, and Kirksaeters, then it is not going to make such a dramatic difference.
I cannot stress how important a front end and cables are when one gets to this level of equipment. I am not sure how much experience some of you have, but the output you get is to the result of the sum of the inputs. These speakers were born for a good tube front end, period. If you are using solid state, you may not be getting the entire picture (with these speakers, IMHO of course). |
"04-11-11: Zmanastronomy
Genjamon, it sounds like you know what your doing.
It's all personal taste."
I second that!! But one thing that did strike me is ... no room treatement. Genj - Have you ever thought of installing some bass traps? I have about 8, 69 x 24 1" panels in my room, some of which a double up to make a "trap" if you will. I find that this keeps the bass in the room where it belongs, though I haven't measured to the level that you do. I tune everything by ear. But it sounds like Genjamon has done a fine job in integrating a subwoofer, and that is not an easy task! Also sounds like he knows live music allot better than I do ;o) |
Zu will likely not accept this challenge wishful thinking guys... |
Just got back from Axpona in ATL, and while I heard some really good systems... it was a '180' from what I experienced last year when I came home realizing my VSA Jr Mk II / Parasound combo was just not cutting it.
I am happy to report that my Lore/Quicksilver combo presents the music much more realistic and even better then many $30-40K systems I heard!! Those systems had more spl and deep bass, but there is no way they could match the level of realism of instruments, soundstage depth, and beautiful articulation that my system has.
I bought nothing!! I long for nothing!!! This is a huge win for me! |
Exactly sebrof!! And when I shared this w/ some people there, they just looked at me like I had 3 heads i.e., 'surely a $3K system can't stand up to this' ... lol.
Too bad it took me 15 systems to figure this out. But hey, wisdom comes at a cost sometimes... especially for those of us that choose to learn the hard way :o( |
Hahaha. Nice one guys. That would be dishonest, and as a follower of Christ, it would not be feasible nor righteous for me to go about deceiving people like that.
Let's see: I live in Bradenton, FL. Eric is from Utah. I am a Financial Analyst for Cox in Saint Pete. Eric is speaker builder in Utah. I am a Cost Accountant from FL - hardly affiliated.
Cwazz - please don't take this as disrespect, but since you are the only one so far on this thread that has griped about the Lores, and now this funny accusation, I feel compelled to point out that your posts have been inconsistent in nature and contradictory to what most of us are reporting. I am afraid this screams that it is likely you and your setup, and not the speaker. Did you know that up to 60% of the sound you hear is room especially when turned up!! I have 8, 69x24 sound panels setup strategically in my room, and believe me, it is night and day with and without! It seems like you either have a room issue or electronics issue or both. Also, it could be that you just dont prefer the way the Lores present the music? That would be ok also. The Lore is a very natural sound with a tremendously deep and layered soundstage if set up correct. They are not loudest, or the most bass, or the warmest, or most colored. Some people just prefer a more colored presentation. The Lores are very revealing of a lesser front end remember this is a 98db sens. speaker so it is naturally going to reveal what is upstream. Cwazz if your Lores are setup right, then a guitar pluck should sound that guitar is in the room! A big box brand speaker will likely not do that.
You say you mainly use a 100 watt ss amp, and also 35 watt tubes. Not all amps are created equal, and if your source is lacking, you are really going to hearing a lesser refined sound. You may have a bad match on the front end. You have also been told about damping factor and have been given many suggestions on this thread. Still, your comments are still negative.
If it is big bass over quality bass that you desire, then you bought the wrong speaker. If the highs sound bright to you, then look at your source, or an easy fix would be to damp the room a bit or try different cables. I am willing to bet, it is your placement in the room and electronics. Try setting up some bass traps in the corners and see if it improves. I had an 18 Epik Legend sub once in a different home and room, and bass was weak due to nulls and suck out at certain frequencies in the room.
Please stop misleading people with one or two sentence adverse comments do nothing but scream that you lack experience and quite frankly, that would be perfectly ok but then take some suggestions and lets move on.
The Joy of the Lord to all of you! |
I meant an Epik Phoenix sub!! That's what I had not a Legend lol. |
Sebrof... I am fine with diverse views - that's what makes the hobby so much fun. I enjoy seeing it through the eyes of others. The issue was the comment about me being Eric, and all of the other negative comments here and there that have no substance. Wondering if he even owns a pair of Lores... |
"04-15-11: Cwazz
I have a Counterpoint with a Hafler preamp . I have to admit I think the pre amp is on the bright side."
I didn't see this post from earlier, so my bad on that. It sounds like your expectations are a little different, perhaps because of spending the money on the finish? But after reading this, i think your electronics may be part of your problem. I am not sure about these electronics. You may want to try a more refined preamp like a Conrad Johnson, but i think you would really fare well with a pair of Quicksilver mini's also - i am using them and not lacking bass at all.
Or if you just want to do a preamp fo with the Vincent preamp. I heard Vincent electronics at Axpona this past weekend and they were one of the best rooms for the money.
Lastly, move the speakers around in your room and if bass is still not cutting it, then add the new inexpensive REL T5 sub to the system. That ought to do it. |
You can get the black, red, white and blue in satin as a standard no charge option. Same paint as in the gloss finish pictures but without the gloss coating. You can also pick any color you want and just send Eric the color palette, and he can mix it. I believe he charges and extra $50 to mix though. Not that bad.
You can email me if you want to see pics of the white satin. |
$250 extra for a gloss - he said it adds quite a but of labor. Again, same paint, just adds multiple coats of the gloss. |
