I too have a JVC TT101 and a JVC TT81. I really enjoy these tables, they are both mounted in identical original plinths.
At this moment my TT101 is out for recapping and contact cleaning at a local (Brooklyn, NY) pro audio repair shop - RepairNY.com
I might have waited too long to get it recapped as a warm up suddenly became necessary to achieve speed stability. Needless to say I am nervous about getting my baby back and running well.
I am using the TT81 at this time and it is fine, but it ain't the same - as Halcro has so beautifully written. My wife - who only comes in and listens from time to time commented that the sound wasn't as good at this time: and the only thing that changed was the the TT substitution.
Part 2 follows |
Speaking of my TT101 and TT81:
I use aurios and still points in combination (creating three feet - two in back and one in front) to support the plinth, I also have a squash ball under the sheet metal motor cover - that ball is absolutely required to damp this ringing metal bowl.
I am very interested in Halcro's finding that when he compared so many amazing tables, that I don't believe I will ever have a chance to listen to, the TT101 was a top runner. I feel rather lucky that I ended up with such a seriously good machine, that is if I get it back in one working piece.
Now that these machines with their sealed bearings are in their 30's I am thinking it may be time to clean the bearings and most likely change the oil. Does anyone have any information on getting into these sealed bearings? |
An update on the recapping of my TT-101. I just spoke with the tech and he says that he will only be changing out the caps in the power supply section, not all of the small ones on the regulation boards. His take is that the large ones should be changed from time to time but the tiny ones will not cause any problems.
Anybody have a point of view on that? |
Halcro,
I am using a thin sorbothane sheet against the platter, topped with a thick achromat and a brass center weight. How are you dressing the platter?
Also, I am considering an outer ring, but am worried about how the extra weight will effect the motor and speed control.
I am picking up the TT101 tomorrow, fingers crossed. |
As far as the sound difference between the TT81 and the TT101 I would have to say it is more of a feeling difference, I am more relaxed with the 101 - no gritting my teeth or other tensions. The feeling is that the music flows better and is more easily pulled into me. Words fail me. |
I have my TT101 back and running once again. The tech changed out 8 capacitors, and I saw that the old ones were quite leaky. I dodged a bullet on that one. Cost was $150 including labor, parts, and tax. I am going to have the TT81 done as well.
I will follow this entry immediately with the second part of this story. |
Halcro,
I'm glad to hear that someone else is crazy enough to buy a stethescope and go looking for trouble. I hadn't thought of it but you are right that the tech should have noticed that the transformer is humming.
The motor now is beautifully silent, and I tried with and without the ground wire attached to the phono pre-amp but no difference.
Today I am going to see if I can rubber mount the transformer. I might need to replace it. But if there is a way to power it via an umbilical cord that would be best. There is a good write up of this at the KAB turntable site and I sent an email to Kevin asking if he could do it.
Gary |
Another thing: I decided to check out the motor bearing on my own. There is a large screw at the bottom of the motor (visible by dropping the sheet metal cover on the bottom. It is sealed with some kind of hardened clay like material. I carefully scraped and vacuumed away the sealant and then I opened the screw... lo and behold I saw a small steel bearing and it was sitting in about 1/2 ounce of oil!! Dirty oil at that. The screw itself is a cup and at the bottom of the cup is a plastic thrust plate.
I cleaned out the old oil with a soft cloth and let it drip out - but nothing really did, and re-filled it with Mobil 1 motor oil. I didn't re-seal it as I will get back in there in a year or so and do it again and the screw/cup holds all the oil it needs.
I wanted to be sure the spindle/motor spun smoothly once I had it all back together. But, I heard a rubbing sound when I turned the spindle (platter off). Oh crap. I had torn apart turntables before so I thought - here we go again.
There are six screws around the motor on top - three hold the motor in place and three hold the black steel top plate of the motor in place. I took all six out (they were surprisingly tight) and lifted the plate off - no more rubbing sound. I spun and listened as I reassembled it and if I over tightened any of the screws the rubbing returned. Once back together, rub free, I put the platter back on, hooked it all up and voila! It spins free and long without any sounds. I don't know if the tech tightened things up or what happened but I am thankful that it was such a simple fix.
It is playing Oscar Peterson in Russia right now and Peterson's flying fingers sound ever so beautiful. |
Using a stethescope (is that sick or what?) I can hear a hum that sounds like the transformer to me: it only sounds when the power is on whether or not the platter is spinning. It makes me think about pulling the power supply out of the tt and moving it into a separate box. Has anyone done this? If there aren't many different feeds at perhaps different voltages then I would think it could be done without spending a fortune. Am I dreaming? |
Lewm, my thinking is that the vibrating transformer adds to the general hash of noise we live in and that the stylus needs to decode. So, even though I don't hear it specifically, it can't be making things better. Also, the EMF generated by the transformer may be effecting various electronics including the cartridge and again, none for the better.
Gary |
Lewm,
EMI it is. I can only hear the vibration using the stethoscope pressed against the plinth or top plate, not through the speakers. It is faint, not audible with naked ears (at least mine). It doesn't change with a reversal of the plug. What reduces it the most is damping the sheet metal cage on the underside of the table using a squash ball suitably squashed against the shelf.
The table was sold in Los Angeles, CA (it has an import stamp) and is actually part of a QL10. The QL-10 is three separate components: A TT-101 direct-drive turnable, a UA-7045 tonearm and a CL-P1 base board, combined and sold together. On the rear of the plinth is a metal plate showing 120V, 60hz, 23W. I am using a Technics EPA-100 that I had rebuilt by Jim Howard rather than the UA7045 at this time.
I am making inquiries on moving the AC power components into a separate box - I refer you to KAB Electro Acoustics, KAB PS-1200GX as an example of what I would like to do but can't see how I can, but I can have the transformer, etc. moved. And I will if it is reasonable. I am also going to order that TI shield. Thanks for that tip. |
Lewm, I am mostly playing my high compliance mm carts at this time and the UA7045 is not compatible. I think the 7045 is excellent and would recommend it and by extension the 12" 7082. Also Jim Howard did an excellent job on the EPA100 so it really sings, so I really enjoy it.
I am interested why you think the vibrating transformer is not effecting the oh so sensitive stylus? It seems to me that I need to quiet it anyway I can.
Gary |
Halcro, having opened up the bearing on the tt101 I would say that it was engineered for the load it supports. I would not say it is particularly stout or overly robust if you get my meaning. So, yes you are living dangerously with a very heavy mat.
Gary |
Wahwah, I recently found out that the Luxman PD-444 (made by Micro-Seiki) used a slotless/coreless motor. So MS apparently used both?
Lewm, I thought some more about it and tried a new test: I lowered the stylus directly on the Achromat platter mat, at zero rpm of course, then I raised the volume to twice my listening level and I couldn't hear the transformer humming in my speakers. So, 'if it ain't broke, don't fix it' seems to hold here. I am leaving well enough alone.
Gary |
Aren't cliche's just peachy. |
What is the theory of a heavy copper mat? I can see adding to the flywheel effect, but that isn't how most dd turntables including the 101 work. I can see it as a EMI shield, but the TI material is probably better as it was designed for that purpose and it weighs relatively little. There has tone better mats for draining record vibrations (I like the achromat) and sorbothane is probably better at damping a ringing platter. So, what is it? |
Banquo,
Very sorry to read your sad news. I would hope that someone responds with a great repairman that will rescue your machine without mortgaging your house.
I am retaining my TT-81 as a spare and every once in a while I think of letting it go, but your experience confirms that that would be a bad idea. By the way there is a QL-8 (TT-81) on ebay right now and after a quick step-out of the plinth you would have a great alternative to the TT-101.
Gary |
I have my TT101 in its original plinth up on Aurios (similar to roller blocks) which are attached via a blob of clay to tip-toes which sit on brass cups. I don't have room for a second tonearm in the back but if I did, I would go for that free standing armpod on isolation.
Halcro, My TT101 will do the stop and reverse trick but not with the mat and record and center weight. Then it just slows down to a crawl but still moving forward. It doesn't worry me as I can't see how anything is being hurt. Could be wrong of course.
Gary |
Banquo and other TT-101 owners. Don't know why, but when my TT-101 is recalcitrant about getting started after a day off, I turn on the power and spin the platter by hand backwards (just get it going fast and let it spin down). It then is ready to play on.
Glad to hear that you are getting to hear this beauty. I don't recall if you are using it nude or not but either way, enjoy. |
Just to add a bit of info to the reversal discussion. My platter (actually two layers: the bottom is a Merrell lead sheet, spray adhesive attached to a thick Acromat-by-Funk hard foam mat) plus the lightest TTWeights perimeter ring and the Michell delrin center press all add up to 3 pounds 1.5 ounces. This is just a bit more than three times the original mat which weighs in at 15.6 ounces.
Needless to say, my platter doesn't reverse on stop, nor does it stop. But I see no deterioration from using a substantial bit of weight on top. I have used the combo for quite some time. |
... Always happy to learn and share. |
Lew, I suggest that if you have or have access to an iPhone that you check out the Tesla app to see where the EMI is. You might not have a problem.
Gary |
Lewm, In response to your questions on 4/16/14 about the quilted material and the EMI shield I refer you to the "Nude Turntable" thread and my responses on 8/27/12 and 9/16/13, and the surrounding entries. Hopefully these entries will cover the ground.
Gary |
I just did a power cord replacement on my TT101. Sorry that I didn't take pics, but here is what I did:
- I bought an IEC power cord extender - it has male and female IEC ends.
- cut off and discarded the male end - circumcision but less painful
- left about 12" of cord - sufficient for my purpose
- stripped and tinned all three wires
- removed the steel basket and took off the cord pass- thru
- freed the small circuit board where the power cord attaches
- tried to unsolder the two wires but was unable so I clipped them closely
- soldered the power and neutral wires of the new line in place - no order required as shown by the original plug having equal sized blades.
- used a close-by brass circuit bd stand-off to squeeze the ground wire tightly against the chassis.
- wrapped the cord like it was originally so that the male IEC socket sticks out the back when I put the basket back on.
Now I am using a good, shielded, grounded power cord for the TT.
Life is Good.
Gary |
I am using a Merrill lead mat glued to the bottom of an Achromat. Very satisfied. Once you add on the weight of the ring and the rather light delrin clamp, the platter gets heavy but no problems.
I am surprised no one responded to my fitting the iec socket. I believe it to be a very worthwhile improvement. |
As far as the benefits of the IEC socket, I have three:
1. Cleaner power to the turntable provided by a well designed and shielded pc.
2. A much better ground for the table and if you are plugging it into the same power conditioner as your phono-pre and other components you will have it on a single ground plane.
3. Less transmission of electro-magnetic noise into the air right near highly sensitive receivers such as your cartridge and phono-cable. This is due to both the better ground and the shielded cable.
I hear less noise - especially less 60 cycle hum. YMMV
Gary |
As far as the mat goes. I have two needs: I want to deaden the ringing of the platter sufficiently, and I want to absorb the vibrations of the record without deadening the sound. Bad vibes and good vibes. That is why I am using a sandwich of lead to dampen the platter and the Achromat which is made of a foamed vinyl that can absorb the excess vibrations but is hard and smooth.
I also use a very thin (1mm) disk of rubber that is about half the diameter of the record label,with a center hole for the spindle, over the achromat. Combined with the Merrill clamp it forces the whole playable area of the record against the mat. This prevents slipping and chatter and helps the mat to do its job.
Perhaps I would be better off with the lead mat mated to a leather mat. I wouldn't want the record touching the aluminum platter or not being evenly supported. So the combined mat would need to be thick enough.
Gary |
Henry, the goal would be twofold. One get a good ground for the Victor and two put a long pc on it so that you can get all that equipment far away from the cartridge and tonearm cable. Does that seem reasonable?
Gary |
Lewm: Where did you connect the third "ground" wire from your IEC plug to the chassis?
With your ultra transparent casing you should be able to see what I am referring to pretty easily. The main circuit boards are stacked using hexagonal brass rods that screw together and screw into the chassis. I unscrewed one right near the small circuit board where the pc connects, removed the small lock washer at the base of the rod where it screws into the chassis and put my tinned and flattened green wire into that space, and tightened it down.
Easily done.
Gary |
I use gunmetal micro-seiki arm boards cantilevered off of a 20lb steel weight to hold my tonearm. The bottom of the weight is double stick taped to a wall mounted platform. The turntable is on brass cones which are double stick taped to the can, including a critical cone in the center of the can. The cones sit on brass disks which are double stick taped to the same platform as the tonearm pod. Nothing moves independently from anything else.
The ms gunmetal arm boards are massive and allow me to rotate them in order to set the geometry. I use the Feickert protractor. Everything stays in the correct geometry until I deliberately move it.
I can't envision a use for a connection Btwn TT and armpod. But to each their own. |
On the subject of platter mats I just want to re-iterate that I am using a lead mat glued to an Achromat. I thought that Fleib or someone else was about to try the same thing and wonder how that worked for them? |
It's been a couple of months and nothing stands still so I wanted to note that I replaced the feet under my naked (to a point) TT-101 with Mapleshade Heavyfeet (I use 4, three supporting the edges of the tin-can bottom and one in the center of the can to damp it.
I was using smaller brass points and sorbothane and brass cups. The new feet go right into the mdf shelf of my Solidsteel wall shelf. Much better vibration control, almost no noise from a tap test to the mdf shelf. Results in a nice increase in transparency of sound-image.
On a totally different track: the forthcoming Technics DD turntables with advanced motors may be just the ticket for a worried owner of golden-age technology like me. I am hoping that there will be a better SP 10 unit in store. Does anyone have the inside scoop? |
I would call your attention to the Yamaha GT2000L and the Pioneer Exclusive P3 on eBay right now. Both are in the USA. No connection to me. |
Halcro, get yourself either a single purpose turntable wall shelf (like the Solid Steel that I use) and spike the turntable to it, or a good stand and an isolation pad like an SRA or Symposium. I would put my naked TT-101 against any plinthed DD and be sure of a favorable outcome. |
My TT-101 is open to the air on all sides, yet it does get warm to the touch. I wouldn't recommend enclosing it - perhaps drill some holes in the plinth where they wouldn't be visible? |
Here are some photos - first without the ring, showing that the achromat is thick and allows for the ring: Without Record Here it is with the Jelco 750L (12")and a Zu/Soundsmith/Denon 103 playing a tune: From the topAnd here you can see it playing from the side: From the sideThe ring is only about a pound but in conjunction with the center press it is good for slightly warped records and it all sounds very fine. A 1/4" deeper ring could fit as well, the limiting factor is the speed selection buttons. Gary |
I propose (without any data to back me up) that the tonearm has a lot of influence on the shape of the Feickert App speed deviations. I believe that unipivots are more easily excited by the 3D eccentricities of the records and thus show a more ragged perhaps more exaggerated trace. This belief is easily attributed to my dislike of most if not all unipivots but at the very least I think it safe to state that the w&f measurements are influenced by the tonearm and are therefore even less comparable from one table to the next.
Non-sequitur: I was at VPI yesterday and Harry Weisfeld is experimenting with adding additional pivot points to his 3D arms. Good idea. |
I believe that Halcro posted three gimballed arms - the only unipivots that I noticed was the VPI on the Classic Direct. It showed a rather ragged trace.
I lean towards the idea that the regular speed changes on the Feickert traces are the results of record eccentricity; the fact that they occur once per rotation (16 - 17 per 30 second measured period) tells me that they reflect an out-of-round condition and are not due to speed correction feedback which would probably occur far more frequently. |
Continuing my last post, I believe that the out-of-round condition must be in the record not the table because records are imprecise and therefore very likely to have that problem and if both the table and the record were at fault the trace would show them either reinforcing or canceling each other depending on where the record was on the platter - so every time you measured the same record on the same platter but rotated the record relative to the platter you would get significantly different results. This is easily tested. |
pbnaudio,
As you are working on setting up a TT-101 I have a question: can you consider what it would require to pull the power board and transformer out of the tin can and mount them in a separate box? I would love to do this as it is a source of both vibrations and rf emissions.
Thanks. |
While I am posting to this thread I wonder if others in our situation are keeping an eye on the latest Technics coreless dd turntable. I hate that they chose the SL1200 model to follow and hope that they will consider the SP10 model for a new even higher end offering. I see this tt as a suitable replacement if my TT-101 pulls the plug. |
pbnaudio, Sorry for the delay in responding - I check this thread less often than I used to. Yes, adjusting the bearing cap does change the height and your instructions are probably right. I diddled with that for quite a while but then I changed the washers that the motor unit is mounted to the frame through. Here is a response I posted on the the nude turntable thread three years or so ago where I discuss that change. It made adjusting the motor height much easier if nothing else. https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/nude-turntable-project/post?postid=388553#388553 |
Lewm, I am tired of the mechanics of turntable life. I am somewhat of a perfectionist so I spent a good deal of time and money using devices to ensure that every aspect of stylus on vinyl was just so, to say nothing of all of the downstream aspects of analog reproduction. Adding an additional layer of ripping devices/software would be a step in the wrong direction for me.
I have perfected my digital rig to the point where I can safely say it is excellent and needs no fiddling. Although I am upgrading the devices as new technology and knowledge comes to the market. I now have 3200 albums (many are multiple discs, and many are high-def) stored and instantly accessible. You might have something similar. I really love listening to multiple versions of a particular cut or laying out an involved couple of hours of tunes without having to go through the unshelving and reshelving of multiple records. More time on music, less on mechanics. |
