I wish there were other choices like other Thiel's but I guess thats what makes them distinctively an SE. Of all the speakers ever made, this speaker comes to the forefront as an incredible bargin for the level of musical enjoyment it puts out. Wonder what this would sound like with a no limit approach to upgrades.
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Just a heads up to members about shipping. Shipping has always been a challenge on expensive audio gear. As of late it has gotten far worse. My business ships a good amount of stuff and two expensive splitters for MB GTR were simply lost with no trace of there whereabouts. I've encountered our material coming in damaged also. For this reason I am only dealing with local buyers for CS 2.7 I've decided to sell. This isn't me using the forum to post a for sale item. Instead I'm simply saying for a speaker that cannot be replaced I refuse to ship it and other members may also consider doing the same. |
I get the seller does not want to ship as I said the same thing last week in this thread about a rare pair of 2.7 in white I did not want to ship. I'm in manufacturing and the condition of freight. if the freight arrives without being lost, is be too be desired. We have 43.7% of our shipped material in claims. We were at 4.76%. With trucking bogged down which effects shipping the game has changed for sure.
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jayant, I appreciate that. at this point I really don't have a system but gear laying around. Life has been very busy with multiple businesses and different houses in multiple states so setting up a system took a back seat. Staying on point with this thread I currently have Thiel CS 7.2 in cherry, CS 6 in Zebrawood, CS 2.4SE original in Bloodwood, CS 2.7 in piano white, and bringing up the rear CS 2.4 in maple with upgrade kit to convert if I choose. Pass XA 200.5, Pass X 600.5, and Krell FPB 450 Mcx round out the amps. To show how far behind on the source, I have disc spinning Wadia and Esoteric. |
jafant I'll check the CS 2.4SE for numbers. I'm assuming your curiosity is the early numbers were made here in US and later runs were sourced elsewhere? The white CS 2.7 in piano white are by far my favorite in terms of aesthetics. They are beautiful. So much so I bought brand new drivers and grill screens for my CS6 from Rob as I'm planning on breaking the speaker down and sand cabinets. Once sanded, including the baffles, I'll have the cabinets painted a Lamborghini Reventon Grey and baffles done in matte black. I'm in professional motorsports so getting automotive paint and highly skilled professionals to do the work is pick of the litter. Send me your email and Ill send photos of the piano white CS2.7 if you'd like. |
beetlemania, I have SN# 005/006 so third pair ever built. |
beetlemania, I doubled check and was wrong about the reviewer. It was Tom Lyle from Enjoy the Music in a April/May 2009 article. I thought they had the sn# mentioned in the article but I did not see it. I do have his name and adderss @ enjoy the music on the box so I have the pair in the review which are the earliest ones I know that someone has. Obviously there is a 001/002 and 003/004 that were made but never heard from anyone claiming to have possession of them. When the opportunity presents itself I'll remove the passive radiator to confirm what the xover is. |
tomthiel, If this has been discussed in the is thread then please excuse as it would take me days to go over all the responses. Do you know if what other cabinet materials Thiel tried and ultimately went with MDF. I'm in manufacturing and have tried many different materials in speaker cabinets and MDF was my least favorite. I fully understand MDF is stable and less prone to shift/move hence why many speaker companies use MDF. If there are any CAD drawings for the CS2.4SE, CS2.7, CS6, and CS 7.2 I would be open to making a set of cabinets with Delignit/panzerholtz. Extremely stable material. |
tomthiel, I appreciate the info and no surprise here that the other materials you mentioned yielded a better cabinet. I met a gentleman years ago who sourced material for Gibson. He was in his late 80's when I met him and I purchased AA/AAA Stika Spruce in widths up to 10" and thicknesses of 1.5". Grain is 25-30 per inch so this is stuff you would see on the front of their guitars and I have it in lumber sizes. I've entertained the idea of a cabinet with the spruce as it is a very stable wood and high strength to weight ratio with Delignit bracing. Sanded and multiple coats of clear coat the wood is very beautiful in its natural state with no pigments added. My thought was/is the cabinets in Thiel speakers was the weakest link and if this was ever pursued what would the end result be? |
Let me rephrase my previous statement. I don't think the Thiel cabinets are poorly engineered. My issue is MDF. Granted spruce fibered MDF is a cut above the other grades. Spruce bracing would seem more appropriate with Delignit framing/structure. I deal with delignit on a daily basis so very familiar with what it is capable of. I appreciate your input. |
tomthiel, I'm not a speaker builder so regarding Delignit as bracing I do not have that data. I'm a US manufacturer in the motorsports industry and we are the authorized dealer for Delignit for motorsports in the US. When a Formula! or Indy car hit over 200 mph the delignit holds up for the skids and bracing in these cars so I would have to think it would perform well with a moving speaker cabinet with nowhere near the velocity of a Formula 1 or Indy car. I'm game to experiment as I have the CNC flat panel routers to cut the Delignit into what ever shape it needs to be. |
Wanted to throw this out there to members interested. I am willing to do a group buy for outriggers for various models. I can do CS2.3, CS2.4, CS 2.4SE, CS 6, CS 7.2 as I have these measurements to create a CAD file. They will be similar to design of original with slight improvements. Material will be 60 series aluminum unless other material is preferred. These will be made in the USA. |
More than ever, with the climate in the US, we need solidarity not division. I want to do good within this community and the communities I can influence. I have those Thiel models in my possession that I listed, so if info is provided for other models I am willing to proceed as I in no way want to exclude anyone in this community if there is a genuine interest. I'll have to go a cost analysis to determine the minimus run number to achieve a certain price point. I can say with confidence it will be cheaper than the $600 they were selling g for per unit. |
I assure you I get it. A good majority of Audio products/components are made overseas and yet the price remains in the realm of product made here in the USA where workers deserve to receive a respectable wage, healthcare, retirement, etc.... to take care of their families. Our purchasing decisions have consequences. Case in point when Wal-Mart touted American made. They beat down manufacturers to lowest price for high volume then dropped them on their head only for these companies to close their doors permanently. Look where the majority of products are made now? How is that working for us? |
jafant, I think you are missing the intent of offering a group offer. This offer was to make outriggers that mirrored what JT did on the CS2.4SE. Outriggers would be larger and thicker for larger models while maintaining proportions the outriggers have with the CS2.4SE. The Sound Anchors stands you referred to do not screw into the bottom of your Thiel's like the outriggers do. They are more of a universal stand than an outrigger which is designed specifically for a Thiel speaker. I take a purist approach so if I was ever fortunate enough to own a 1963 Ferrari 250 GTO I would keep to the lines the designer intended and not bolt on aftermarket aero or the like. I wanted to provide members/users with Thiel speakers an option to couple their speaker and stabilize them as if JT designed it. Funny I thought there would be value in that. These were not being made in my garage. We have a 36,000 sq. ft. manufacturing facility. We are primarily a professional motorsports company that produce parts for Formula 1, Indy, NASCAR, track cars, and street series. We also do aero space and defense projects. We do some audio but turn most away as the majority do not have an on staff engineer we can converse with concerning their CAD/modeling files. My offer was never intended to take away from Rob and the service he provides. It wasn't meant to be an ad in the forums to drum up business. It was merely an offer to assist members who wanted to maintain the integrity of their Thiel speakers and provide stability and a sonic gain as JT intended on the original design of the outrigger. |
Thiel is no longer made and they were outsourcing overseas toward the end before doors were closed. Yes, there are US made products in audio industry but that percentage is dropping and yet the prices continue rise. We have had audio companies call us kicking tires and get a price only to see them go over seas and then sell their wares here as if it was made here in the good ole USA. |
esprits4s, Noted. Right now I have one of a few different models. I would like to get 2-3 of a model as it will distribute the cost of CAD/Modeling, Programming, and initial set up time amongst a few parts cutting the cost down per unit. Thiel never made outriggers for CS3.6, CS5, CS 5i, CS6, CS 7, and CS7.2 so I assumed members with these models would have wanted a set of outriggers. I'm keeping a list and those who have reached out and will move forward when the quantity for each model allows me to proceed and keep cost down. Thx |
jhouse55, Go on line and search Thiel outriggers. There is a review from Tom Lyle from Enjoy the Music that shows copious photos of the outrigger for the 2.4SE. There was never outriggers designed for the models I mentioned and the ones you mentioned hence my willingness to offer these to the Thiel community. Rob at Coherent does not have outriggers for the models Thiel never designed them to go with as they came about towards the end of JT life. They will be very similar in design to the one Thiel made but the screw taps, length/width, and thickness for outrigger will vary slightly for each model. I'm not making one CAD file. I have to make a CAD file for each model then program, then initial set up of tooling before one part is even made. To keep cost down to end user I cannot make one as all the cost associated with making one, stated above, is absorbed into one unit. I'm keeping a list and when I get 2-3 orders of the same Thiel model from members I'll provide a price. Doing only one, I will not put all that effort into when I know the cost will be too high per unit. |
jhouse55, The models you have will be very comparable in size to the pair in that review. The CS 5, CS 5i, C6 CS7, CS7.2 are a different story. The smaller models .375" thickness will be fine or even .500". For the larger models .625" thickness would be desirable. As mentioned I'm keeping a tally of members emailing me and when I get to a quantity that I feel we can proceed then I will. |
tomthiel, The base can be whatever design one prefers. Ideally it should also add stability to the speaker. I have CS 7.2 and CS 6 which are fairly heavy so I did not them to be tipsy. I used the threaded inserts at the bottom of the speakers and ran a threaded brass bolt with a spacer to couple the speaker to base. Apply some footers and your set. This material is sonically superior to aluminum. One who benefit from an aluminum outrigger. With the Panzerholz the audible difference is very obvious. |
jafant, I'm not an Audio manufacturer. I'm in Professional Motorsports so I do not have a line of audio products. With that said I'm afforded the ability to design and process various parts/projects for audio quite easily as its a hobby of mine. I've made aluminum outriggers and I've made Panzerholz/tankwood speaker bases and the latter was sonically superior. I'm familiar with the CS 2.4, CS 2.4SE, and CS 2.7 as I have all three in addition to CS6 and CS 7.2. |
jazzman7, The review you referenced with the CS2.4SE I own that very pair used for that review. There were to few reviews pertaining to Thiel speakers. Getting a very good condition pair and performing some of the upgrades mentioned by Tom would allow them to compete with modern spekers costing you five times or more your purchase price for the Thiels. |
jafant, I sold a pair of CS 2.7 but I have the exact same pair in a house in Florida. I've deided to invest in CS 7.2 as my listening room here in NC is 35'x60'x12' ceilings so the big Thiels will work better in that space. Tom, I woulkd be on board with going forward with xover upgrade. The drivers are in perfect shape as are the cabinets. I'm thinking of refinishing them in a high quality automotive paint and making them look more current. Currently I'm designing a Panzerholz base for it. You'd have tp spend a considerable amount of scratch to better these.
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It depends on the level of committment you are willing to invest. CS 2.4 are easier to set up and less finicky with electronics. Not that they dont benefit from demoing numerous amps and front end, just not as critical as CS6. Top to bottom it's a well balanced speaker and at its price point it's a steal. CS6 takes more effort to properly set up. Getting the correct balance with electronics can be laborious if you dont enjoy the journey of doing so. Once dialed in with the right electronics the CS 2.4 are outclassed. The CS6 produce a bass punch much larger than their weight class. It will take a considerable investment compared to the CS 2.4 to glean the best out of them. Thats my .02 whatever weight that may have. |
halifax, A consideration worth noting is the volume of your listening room. If it's on the smaller side then by default you will rule out the CS6 as they need a little elbow room to hear their potential. Another consideration are amps. You mentioned bass. To drive the CS6 or even the CS 2.4 you will need amps that can push some current and Class A being at the top of that list. Another consideration is the upgrade path you can take on xovers with the CS2.4 which Tom Thiel has been very generous with his time to help members. You will no doubt extract more performance from this upgrade. I'm holding out for the upgrade xovers for the big Thiel's.
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Tom, Now that you have the CS7.2 I’m on board with xover upgrades, especially with an outboard if you find the time or desire to take on such an endeavor. Out of the entire Thiel line up this is my go to speaker. Yours in Birdseye maple must look beautiful. If you ever decide to make a platform or outriggers for them let me know as I will share the cost with you and get some CAD models to for you to review before it goes to production. Excuse me if you mentioned this but what amps are you using to drive those beasts? I use a Pass XA 200.5 or Pass Labs X600.5 with very good results.
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thoft, Thiel's are not know to be shy in the bass department. If you are limited to the larger room you will need up the Thiel line to the bigger brothers. With them you will need to invest in amps worthy of the load they will carry to drive those speakers and give you the bottom end you are looking for.
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thoft, Your amp will power the larger Thiel's but will run out of gas in a larger room especially if your wanting that bass slam. A used Krell FPB will deliver what your looking for.
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