"My 12 watt P/P KingKo KA-101 delivered very quickly, 9 days after it was ordered. Just picked it up from the post office. Initial impressions tonight." Looking forward to your findings. I have a number of amps including a Yaqin (Chinese) tube amp that is also based on the EL-84, 12w x 12w, 3 inputs, headphone jack and excellent build quality. It sells for around $500. It's not tube rectified, however, so may not be apples to apples but close. A positive finding with the KingKo may be enough for me to pull the trigger on the Tekton Double Impacts. PS: Genelex and Mullard (both reissues) EL-84s are available at a reasonable cost and could be a worthwhile tube roll.
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Thanks Bill. Exactly what I was looking for. Interesting it sounded better with your preamp in the chain. Not sure what to draw from that since there are so many variables but good to know you were getting good sound with a well engineered EL-84 based 12w amp. |
"It just occurred to me that our discussions on this thread are heavily weighted towards amplifier pairings with the Double Impacts, and to a lesser degree the preamplifier; and specifically optimal outcomes with respect to both component types.
There has been some discussion of source components, but in terms of a weighted average very low coverage of the front end.
I find this very interesting and am curious as to why this may be the case. Thoughts?"
I've noticed that too and was actually drawn to this thread because up until recently it did NOT go off talking about other equipment. If you are discussing the sound quality of the DIs there are too many variables to account for except for the DI/amp interface and the room interface. Knowing that the DIs play well with flea watters, SET tube, P/P tube, solid state, Class D...and what size of room they are being used in is very important to me since I'm making a buying decision. I think we all know a good preamp, turntable, cartridge, DAC, music server, cables (let's not go there, haha) etc can make a big difference on the overall musicality of a system but not sure how that helps me determine the sound quality of the DIs. For instance, inserting a quality preamp into the chain will help all speakers not just the DIs......my 2 cents. |
Just to add to the discussion of where audio technology is going and what some consider to be SOTA. There is a great thread over on AudioCircle regarding the JBL M2 and 7 Series speakers. JBL has done a lot of work interfacing these well-made speakers with digital room correction and digital power. Its a fascinating read if anyone is interested. Here is the link: http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=149780.0 |
"DI thread post total--1390
Biking Mileage--1335
I'm not sure if I'm winning or losing."
Ha,ha. Looks like a win/win to me! |
Well, thats some spirited, but relevant, debate regarding amps! I congratulate everyone for maintaining their cool!! Can’t wait for porscheracer’s report once he has had a chance to fully integrate the DIs into his system..... |
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James - truly impressive line-up of speakers and amps you own/owned. I'm with Charles - you would really take the DIs over the ML ESL15A is that what you are saying? If so, that's a very impressive endorsement. I realize your comments may be coming from "sound memory" but I'm particularly interested in how the DIs would generally compare to the Totem Acoustics and Marten Heritage. I currently have Von Schweikert VR-7 HSE and I just can't pull the trigger on the DIs because I can't believe they would out perform my VR-7. Any input you may have would be much appreciated. Thanks! |
Thanks for the feedback James. Much appreciated. |
porscheracer - "Anyway, I am pretty sure the hum is gain related. My preamp has 14dB of gain in tube mode and the amp has 27dB. That's a lot of gain for speakers as efficient as the Double Impact. If I put the preamp into passive or JFET mode with 0dB gain, the hum gets quieter but it is still there. If I unplug the RCA cables from the amp, it's gets a tiny bit quieter. This mirrors what the preamp and amp designer said would happen with high efficiency speakers.The First Watt F7 has 14dB of gain so I would be cutting 13dB. About the same as going into passive or JFET mode on the preamp." Not sure if you got your excessive gain/hum problem resolved but if not try out the Rothwell attenuators. They are plug and play a come in -10db, -15db and -20db. I've used them in various systems over the years with great results. Here is a link: http://www.rothwellaudioproducts.co.uk/html/attenuators.html |
porscheracer - "Do the Rothwell attenuators alter the sound signal. I suspect they must. Any experienced there?"
No negative impact on the sound that I could detect. Rothwell's website is quite good explaining how they work. I bought mine awhile ago but I think they are around $50 so not a huge expense either.
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If you are looking at the Electrons you may want to check out the Impact Monitors, especially if you already have a subwoofer to use them with. You would save about $1k in upgraded form. Just a suggestion. (I currently have a pair of Impact Monitors) |
@evolvist - "I mean, if I had been told one month, I wouldn’t have batted an eye. Since I had been offered up two weeks, well, guess what? I expect two weeks." It’s been two weeks. Did you cancel your order? If so, please let us know. (Not kidding). |
Its a reflection of our society today. Complaining publicly at two weeks because you were told it would be a two week delivery. Refusing to even try to fix indented cones with a vacuum (I’ve used this trick - its easy) and insisting new cones be sent. I guess that's how most people react now a days. |
@porscheracer - "I have talked with Karma at Tekton and you can consider my situation taken care of." - Great news!
@evolvist - "Thank you, Eric. I believe I will stick with the mini-Ulfs" - +1 |
@evolvist - Well said! Kudos! |
@schw06 - "really opened my eyes to just how much the room influences what’s coming from your speakers and expect that because of that room interaction, there will likely be great variation in what people prefer to feed the DI’s." That’s exactly right schw06. I’d also add speaker/chair positioning and height make a significant difference in the sound you get. This is a great thread but I’d like to see more system pictures posted so we could get a better feel for the context of comments being made. |
Everything about this hobby is subjective when it comes to sound quality. But you have to be very careful about generalizations regardings amps and especially specific tubes. |
What is this groups general take on Herb Reichert’s (Stereophile) review of the Linear Tube Audio ZOTL40 Mk.II? He didn’t pull any punches which is refreshing, frankly. Overall, he thought it was a nice sounding amp but overpriced and a little lean even with the LTA preamp in front of it. He preferred a PrimaLuna amp/preamp combo. Urban HiFi didn’t argue much in the Manufacturer Comments but you could tell was a little taken back. I haven’t heard the ZOTL40 MK.II so I can’t really comment but I was surprised when I read the review last night. |
Thanks Charles. Helps a lot. Especially when you describe the MZ2-S as having a lighter, leaner, less tonal fullness/richness or color saturation/vividness than your Coincident equipment. I've heard Coincident used in a number of systems and was always impressed with its realistic presentation. Doesn't mean LTA is bad or wrong just probably not what I would prefer. |
"The LTA kit is very responsive to tube rolling and they can be 'warmed/richened' up with alternate tube choices" Right, when I was turning to the Manufacturer Comments I was thinking Urban HiFi would say Herb Reichert should have rolled in different sounding tubes or they will send him different tubes. I actually give them credit for not doing that. I understand, and agree (especially a preamp section), can sound much different with "better" tubes. |
LP - Once you get to a certain level of performance you begin to realize literally everything in your system can make a difference in perceived sound quality. However, fundamental design improvements (such as the Tekton tweeter array) is what propels this hobby forward IMO. I could tweek all day long and never get a normal set of speakers to sound like these. |
@mazikrav - "Only a bottom feeder’s personal journey. It might be interesting to hear how others have reached the rarified air of electronics worthy of Tekton Design." Actually, aside from the comments about the Dynaco 70, I think this thread shows you can use just about any amp with the Double Impacts and get respectful sound. For instance, I tried a cheap Chinese SET with my Impact Monitors and was very pleased with what I heard. |
Statements such as SET are the best for emotion and solid state are best for bass slam/dynamics are WAY too general and are simply not correct. Sorry. I've owned or heard so many amps I know that's not true. The best amps I've owned were Shindo Sinhonia which are 40 watt push-pull amps. The key is to match them with the correct speakers and get the room/set-up right. |
@grannyring - "Great big amp world out there and I have certainly heard SS and hybrid amps with as much or more emotion, air, tone, color etc... as a DHT or PP tube amp. These comparisons should not be in general, but specifically as every amp sounds different. Not all Class D amps sound the same or are even cut from the same sonic cloth. Not all DHT amps sound the same, nor are they all blessed with the magical qualities we all love in music. Just too simple and general based on my experience with amplifiers. Again, great big amp world out there folks." +1 to that. |
@charles1dad - "By the way I believe that your former Shindo Sinhonia would sound absolutely beautiful with your Double Impact monitors (but not declaring universally the best)" Ha,ha. No doubt. But the amps would have cost 5X as much as the speakers. Just shows the crazy value of Eric's current speakers! |
@lak - " Ruggedly built weighing in at 50 pounds, this 35dB gain powerhouse will drive most speakers of 90dB + efficiency to very comfortable sound pressure levels." Yep, I think your last statement pretty much answered your question. |
@jadedavid - Congrats on the purchase and +1 for taking your time with proper placement and break-in! |
@david_ten - I've gotten to know Vinnie Rossi over the years. He built a battery based integrated for me a few years ago that was excellent. I've heard his new LIO a number of times and can't help but think it would be a great match with the Double Impacts. Also, the oldie but goodie Decware offerings are a solid choice for high efficiency speakers. Scott |
@lak - Allnic equipment is some of the best available in my opinion. Your Allnic integrated, as you indicate, should drive the Double Impact with no problem. I've always been impressed with Montana speakers but have never heard the EPX. For me, the real breakthrough with these new Tekton speakers is the tweeter array. It presents the upper midrange and treble in a completely natural way. This is obviously just conjecture on my part, but the only area you may feel is not a clear step forward is in the bass. The bass produced by every Montana speaker I've heard has been truly excellent. I'm not saying the Double Impact's bass won't be very good just that might be an area it will, at least, be a "wash" between the speakers. You may want to wait for the Mini-Ulfs to come out or even spring for the full Ulfberthts - simply based on what I remember hearing from Montana speakers generally. |
@jcarcopo - Very cool and thanks! Any reason you went with bi-wires on your DIs?
@david_ten - I just upload my pictures to Audiogon. It seems to work well. Yeah, even just listing your system components would be helpful. We've got so many people contributing to this thread it's hard to keep everyone's systems straight. |
@teajay , @david_ten , @grannyring , @kdude66 , @mikirob , @jcarcopo, @grey9hound : Thank you for your valuable posts! Can you please post pictures of your systems in Audiogon’s Virtual System pages? ..... "A picture is worth a thousand words"
@charles1dad , @mac48025: Thanks for posting pictures of your systems. I can almost "hear" what your systems sound like by looking at your gear, your room and how you have it set-up. |
@charles1dad - no my current system doesn’t surpass the Shindo system I had built. My current preamp and turntable are very good but are not in the same league, frankly. Shindo presents a very real tone and soundstage that I haven’t heard with other equipment. My favorite Shindo preamp I owned cost more than my entire current system. Crazy! I would rather listen to, support and get to know excellent local musicians with my money than buy a $15k preamp again! Anyway, today, I love finding value in stereo equipment and that’s why I like the new Tekton speakers so much! |
@jcarcopo - ha,ha now I understand the double runs of Big Silver Oval! +1 on the Art Audio amp. Thanks again for posting the pictures it just makes it easier to understand someone's perspective when you actually see their set-up. |
@charles1dad - "So I admit the contradiction in preferring the inclusion of a high quality tube preamplifier. Despite adding active circuitry to the pathway, they just give more than they remove in my listening experiences. " +1. Totally agree. "I know what you mean by supporting local musicians. Each time I attend a performance I'd like to believe that the money spent contributes to their continued survival. I have such enormous admiration for their talent and mastery of their respective instruments. Also to be truthful it evokes the "man wish I could play like that" response every time 😊. At the core of it all I'm just a music loving guy. " Exactly!
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Thanks Aric. The MZ2s needed more gain to properly drive the 2A3 so the 6SL7 was the better fit. Makes sense. |
@kdude66 - Congrats Kenny! Seems like a very nice amp.
Why was the 6sl7 a better driver tube than a 6sn7? Does it have something to do with using the 2A3-40?
I'm trying to picture "This amp was built in a standard Hammond case with a cage covering the tubes and the case was painted sapphire blue with a black case" So it's a black Hammond case painted sapphire blue? Can you post some pictures of your overall system? |
Hi all - I hate to always be the contrarian but we are talking like either you have "natural, organic" sound or you have "detailed" sound. Personally, I don't want one without the other and I don't think I have to. If you are not hearing all the "details" of the music then by definition it's not "natural or organic". This discussion on NOS DACs (especially the CF DAC) has really got me re-thinking my digital. But if we are saying "natural and organic" is rolled-off highs or a lack of transparency then we've opened the wrong playbook. |
@Hfaddict - Thanks for the feedback on your DIs and showing us your system. Excellent pictures!! Since you have a JL Audio sub available I would at least try it - stick it in the corner where that plant is? :-) I run a REL sub with my Impact Monitors and it doesn't take away from the magic of the Tekton tweeter array as far as I can tell. |
"The monitors delivered.....tremendous body and detail, and provide stiff opposition to many other monitors at the $2k price point. I could easily see a great music system being built around them." Totally agree with that assessment and would add if you have a decent subwoofer already the price/performance point is off the chart! |
@manati - "...my electronics consist of Constellation Centaur and Constellation Virgo II preamp, Esoteric K03X sacs DAC, All Nordost Valhalla cabling, etc."
Wow!! I know the DIs are crazy values based on their price v. performance but its truly remarkable the DIs are even remotely on the same level as your equipment! Congrats and thanks for sharing. |
Seems the drivers don’t play that big of role to the sound of the tweeter array as does the crossover and wiring of each tweeter. I’m guessing he can get very good sound out of many different drivers as long as they fall within certain frequency parameters. Personally, I would like to see a version of the DIs with powered woofers (Rythmik?) and even higher quality caps in the crossover such as Jupiters. |
@mac48025 - It’s not so much about bass output or SPLs but closely matching the woofer with the servo amp which leaves the main amp to only drive the mids and tweeter. Jim Salks Exotica 3 are a prime example of what I’m thinking about. Will be exciting to see what Eric comes up with to further refine and mate with his excellent tweeter array. |
@aricaudio - "A big part of the synergy of the sound produced simply relies on good synergy between components." Amen. +1
Aric, you are really starting to win me over. Specific tubes have a general sound but it's really about a synergy design/build and not the tube. |
@teajay - A 6A3 tube has the same filament characteristics as a 6B4G but is on a 4-pin UX-4 base like the 2A3. I had a DHT 6A3 amp years ago that was very nice but had a little too much hum. I suppose a DC version would have solved the hum problem. If Aric can build a DHT 6A3 or 6B4G with no hum I'll probably be calling him too! |
Aric - ditto Charles’ question and was what I was trying to get at previously regarding hum. AC or DC heating? Thanks, Scott
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Aric - Thanks. Really impressive to get no hum with AC heating on this type of tube.
Scott |
@premnath - that's some very nice amps you've owned. Very impressive the Berning 6b4g stands well ahead of those. You indicated they are built to order which explains why I haven't been able to find anything on his website. Can you confirm the specs for us? Someone mentioned earlier the Berning 6b4g is PP, output of 10 watts/channel and it costs $7K? Thanks. |
@grannyring - I really respect your posts. Thanks for your feedback on the DIs. |
@aniwolfe - why would you return the Electrons but for the WE 10ga cables? Can you explain that comment a little more? Thanks |
