Glaucon, I had the amps in stands so no experience with sand. I would try and call Dale Pitcher.
Review: Intuitive Design/Pitcher Sound Labs Summit PSL 624 Speaker
Category: Speakers
Intuitive Design Summit model number PSL 624 (PSL=Pitcher Sound Labs)
Part I: Introduction
The Intuitive Design Summit Loudspeakers are almost certainly the last loudspeaker I will ever buy. They have completely blown away even my most ridiculously unrealistic expectations. This review will humbly attempt to do justice to these utterly magnificent, stunningly transcendent masterpieces of sonic transduction. I am a consumer with no affiliation to any audio retailer or manufacturer. My only goals are to inform the audiophile community about these and to pique its curiosity, possibly to the point where some people may actually to give these an audition—something they so richly deserve.
The review has seven parts:
1. Introduction;
2. Synopsis (just read this if you want to get the main points without
suffering through the whole tome);
3. The fleshed out, fully detailed narrative (extremely long and thorough, beware);
4. Photos;
5. Personal anecdotes and observations of others;
6. My poem: “Pitcher Perfect—The Fabulous Summits” (I had to do it!);
7. Disclaimer statement. (This is really stupid but is intended to preempt shill
accusations.)
Part II: Synopsis
The Intuitive Design Summits are a two-way, dynamic loudspeaker with a custom, proprietary, chambered, 1” soft dome tweeter; a 7” carbon pulp midbass driver; a first order crossover; capacitors manufactured on site by Intuitive Design; a granite cabinet; and the granite Path Stand System. Mine have Stillpoints and inverted risers under both of the speakers and both of the Path Stands, which in turn are placed on 18 x 12 x 3 inch, 75 pound granite surface plates.
Dimensions and weights, etc. (Rounded off):
Speakers: 19 ½ x 13 ½ x 11 inches, gross shipping weight=84 lbs (each) with boxes
Path Stands: 18 x 13 x 11 ¼ inches, gross shipping weight=92 lbs (each) with boxes,
but without the sand poured in
Overall, in our room (see photo with 4 foot “yard”stick): height is 43 ½ inches
Distance from back wall is between 26 and 28 inches to the BACK of each speaker
Room dimensions: 20 ft 10 in x 15 ½ ft x 9 ft (ceiling height)
Speakers are parallel to the longer wall.
These speakers are the best I’ve heard, with a unique and profoundly powerful
combination of high end smoothness and detail. The imaging is utterly three dimensional, stable and holographic, practically beyond belief. Off axis dispersion is outstanding, and yet the precision of the imaging seems to be completely unaffected by this. The entire sonic spectrum down to around the 40 hertz rolloff is presented with stark, vivid realism that is uncanny and seamless.
It must be noted that the superlative sonic attributes come to their fullest fruition only
when the Dodson 217 Mark II D DAC is in the signal path. The superb bass response is contingent on outstanding amplification, such as that provided by the Odyssey Extreme Monoblocks, which are rated at greater than 200 wpc, and are probably closer to 300, with outstanding current delivery, as assured by the presence of 360,000 microfarads of capacitance.
Part III: Fully Detailed Narrative
PLEASE UNDERSTAND THAT ALL COMPARISONS WITH OTHER BRANDS OF SPEAKERS ARE SUBJECTIVE, AND STRICTLY MY OWN OPINION BASED ON LIMITED LISTENING. ANY BRANDS I NAME BELOW WERE FAVORABLY IMPRESSIVE IN SOME WAY, AND ANY “DOGS” HAVE BEEN OMITTED. YOUR OPINION MAY VARY OR BE DIAMETRICALLY OPPOSED TO MINE, AND I DO NOT CONSIDER MINE TO BE THE REFERENCE, EXCEPT FOR ME.
I am 43 years old and have arrived at audiophile nirvana. The audiophile journey began in my teens, listening to speakers like the original AR 90 (never even got to hear the legendary AR 9’s). I vaguely remember a General Electric system, then a Panasonic system, 10 wpc solid state receiver with an 8 track and large, 2 way speakers with a passive radiator and soft, boomy bass, which I thought was great at the time. The first real system I had was during my 20’s, and included a Parasound receiver with preamp outputs, the legendary B&K ST140 amplifier, and what must have been the original (or near original) version of the Paradigm 9SE loudspeakers. Years passed and my audiophile interest was again piqued by loudspeaker listings on Audiogon. I ended up with Paradigm Studio 100 V3 speakers augmented by a Rel Storm 3 sub-bass unit and driven by Odyssey Extreme monoblocks, with a Rotel RC 995 preamp, and Dakiom Feedback Stabilizers. I was actually fairly satisfied, but not utterly transfixed in paroxysmal ecstasy like I am now.
Duane, a dealer who I’ve known for over 10 years, had been talking about a 3,000 dollar speaker that sounded like a 10,000 dollar speaker. (The Summits are about 3,500 dollars and the Path Stand System is about 1,500 dollars). I listened to them even though I was fairly satisfied with the Paradigms. I couldn’t believe the synergistic combination of smoothness, detail and bass reproduction combined with an excellent soundstage. Dynamic range was practically identical to that of the Paradigms and the mid bass was better. Given their price, I became upset and finally caved in and bought the Summits, plus upgraded the preamp, and added the Dodson.
As currently configured in my system, with Odyssey Monoblock Extreme amplifiers, an Odyssey Extreme Tempest Preamplifier, and the Dodson 217 Mark 2 D DAC with upgraded 218-like software, these are the finest loudspeakers I have ever heard, with the closest competitor being the old, three box version of the Audio Physic Caldera, fed by about 7000 dollars of front end electronics, including Spectral products. Those retailed for about 20,000. I listened to those several years ago and did so only once, but did use some of my own source material (Police, Synchronicity 2, Mobile Fidelity Sound Labs, gold disc). It’s a close call, the memory is less clear than before, the systems are different and there was never anything like an A/B, but the subjective impression of profound sonic excellence imparted by the Summits is even more powerful that imparted by the Calderas. Previously, there was nothing close to the Calderas, in my mind.
Other speakers I have listened to much more recently, which were great, but not as great as the Summits, (in my own, unscientific, subjective and possibly flawed opinion ONLY), include: 1. Totem Winds: Just a great loudspeaker, with great tonality and detail, great soundstage, but seemed inferior to the Summits with respect to soundstage height and, in retrospect, mid bass punch); 2. JM Lab (either Mini or Micro Utopias, whichever sell for around 5,000; these had the Be tweeter): Very detailed and fairly sweet high end, excellent midrange and soundstage, but quite lacking in the bass, seeming to roll off at a rather high frequency, and showing some softness and just a hint of boominess, not acceptable to me, even knowing they’d have been supplemented by the Rel; 3. One of the upper level Aerials, I think it was the 7B: Really a fine loudspeaker with true finesse and sweetness on the high end, and a very respectable soundstage. These seemed a little rolled off on the high end and possibly slightly lacking in sonic detail. Sonically they reminded me of some of Dale Pitcher’s earlier designs in the lower to middle echelons of the Essence lineup. Those were a very “nice” loudspeaker with no glaring weaknesses, but they never blew me away like his Summits do now.
Specifically:
1. The Summits have the most amazing combination of high end smoothness and detail I have ever heard in any loudspeaker, at any price, bar none, especially when the Dodson DAC is in the signal path (it is possible for me to listen A/B by switching inputs on the preamp between the player directly or through the Dodson). This confers an incredible, unique and stark realism that is practically indescribable. It is a consistent feature irrespective of program material, including rock music, classical music, jazz, bluegrass, folk music, and even other things like the Cybergenesis theme from the Terminator Soundtrack. Sumiko has a song used its by dealers in setting up systems called “Say a Prayer for the Cowgirl.” This is a well recorded track and sounded very good through the Paradigms. It sounded utterly real and qualitatively different—starkly so—through the Summits. The Paradigms made it sound like the woman was in the center of the soundfield, singing into a microphone. The Summits made it sound like her voice was being magically amplified with no microphone or any hint of electronic artifact whatsoever, i.e. she was THERE in the room, floating as if she were a singing ghost, with normal timbre, only louder than a typical unamplified human voice
2. The soundstage is truly 3-D, with uncanny depth, height, width, and stability, with the WIDEST SWEET SPOT I ever remember hearing, so much so that—get this—THE IMAGE IS PRESERVED, EVEN WHEN SEATED OUTSIDE OF THE LATERAL CONFINES OF THE SPEAKERS! Yes, that is really true. Last night we listened to Mozart’s Symphony No. 41, Jupiter, (Phillips Digital Classics, DDD), preformed by the “Orchestra of the 18th Century.” I was seated off center and outside of the plane of the edge of the right speaker. It was STILL like listening to the orchestra. I was amazed, able to perceive central imaging, off center imaging, and actually place the instrument sections of the orchestra both side to side and front to back. It was absolutely unreal. The soundfield hung in space as a stable, 3-D image, even from that position, seeming to become a holographic entity unto itself, rather than a well crafted psychoacoustic illusion based on auditory cues.
DEPTH and HEIGHT: These consistently convey depth of soundstage, the likes of which I didn’t even know could possibly exist in a stereo system. The tympani seemed to come from the back of the room on the Jupiter piece. With Dueling Banjos, the two banjos are placed very precisely and three dimensionally in space, every single time, as follows:
The first banjo is about 2 feet in front of, three or four feet to the side of, and one to two feet below, the second banjo. Both banjos sound exactly like banjos in the room, and they stay virtually locked in their respective positions throughout the piece, even when they start playing really fast, together. The taller one on the left may move in about a foot or so but that’s it. The various notes from the first banjo seem to emanate from different positions along a short diagonal corresponding to long axis of that banjo itself.
WIDTH: These are the first speaker I’ve heard in over 10 to 15 YEARS that project an image convincingly outside the lateral edge of the speaker, as perceived from the sweet spot. I first perceived this when the speakers were on brass spikes on top of the stands, which were on spikes coupled to the floor. Dale suggested granite surface plates and Stillpoints with inverted risers. I was wary but did it anyway and the image outside the speakers actually became MORE convincing and stable (base also improved, necessitating a downward adjustment in the Rel’s crossover, and detail sharpened still further). This lateral projection occurs with the Carlos Santana Song, “Black Magic Woman”, during the interlude near the end, where two separate sets of bongos are playing simultaneously. One set is projected outside of the right speaker, seeming to emanate from above the Rel, and the other is projected about one foot inside of the left speaker. Both also are projected about one or two feet BEHIND the speakers as well, and these images remain stable throughout the song. Other instruments are placed appropriately and stably in positions elsewhere on the soundstage.
3. BASS: The bass from these speakers is far better than any monitor I’ve ever heard, and in fact is more like that of a floorstander. The low end rolloff is stated to be around 40 hertz, and the bass with these is actually even better than what I heard from the Paradigm Studio 100 V 3 speakers that I owned for about a year. The crossover is set at 27 hertz, not 28 like I had thought in an earlier post to a thread. The midbass punch is just as excellent as that of the Paradigms, and just a tad richer without being soft or fuzzy. I had had concerns about a two way system going so low, but the midrange doesn’t suffer at all. Dale Pitcher had mentioned some potential “Doppler issues”, potentially introducing distortion when the 7” carbon pulp driver has greater excursion at higher volumes. I have simply NOT been able to hear this, ever. I think that they are actually “Doppler NON-issues.”
Part IV. Photos—See below.
Part V. Personal anecdotes and observations of others, including non-audiophiles.
1. Alien abduction-like, lost time:
I was listening to these and it was getting later, around 9:04 on a school night. I wanted to listen to only one more song, for about 5 minutes. I listened for about 5 minutes, and glanced casually at the clock, startled to see that is was about 9:53. Then I remembered having listened to not just one but several songs, losing track of time. No aliens. It was kind of weird, though.
2. Closing my eyes, images of musicians playing instruments, moving and singing spontaneously appear in my mind’s eye, unprompted by me.
3. Our 10-year-old daughter’s friend was listening and asked why the loudspeakers suddenly sounded so “good”, after we got the Summits. Our 12 year old son said that it was weird that such a small speaker could sound so great, even compared with a larger floorstander. My mother in law is NOT an audiophile and NEVER had asked me to play the stereo (married 17+ years), but did just that when she heard “Dueling Banjos”. My 75 year old mother said that following the setup of these speakers, it was the first time she’d ever been able to detect a sonic difference out of all the other upgrades and tweaks. She thought that bass and separation were better.
A close family friend of ours, Rose, had this to say:
“The Intuitive Design Summit listening experience provides sensory delight in every sense of the word. The sound is ingested, swallowed whole, distributed to the senses, and the eyes watch while the sound dances overhead, just in front of the minds eye, just barely out of physical reach. There is a definitive head and heart connection, which delights the soul and the even the “average” listener will delight in the effect.
“The sound penetrates the senses, notes dance in the field of vision, while the auditory nerves carry the sound deep inside the chest/heart where the feeling is indescribable. I have never in my life ever heard or felt the notes in such a strong sense. The experience has been one of the most intense feelings I have ever allowed to wash over me and over take me.
“I do not consider myself an audiophile. Instead, I would consider myself a dilettante.”
Part VI. The Poem, “Pitcher Perfect: Ode to the Summits”
i know there are those who will think this a shill
but please understand that these loudspeakers thrill
so before you post pot shots, loud and shrill
please take a quick listen, if you will
your soul will shine, sparkle and glisten
if only you’ll give these fine speakers a listen
for then you should find my words to be true
but ‘til you listen, you won’t have a clue
the time’s getting late as I look at the clock
but I just had to tell you---these loudspeakers ROCK!
Part VII. The “Disclaimer”
Disclaimer/conflict of interest statement: NOTHING at all, I am just an ecstatic customer who’s been waiting anxiously to post this UNSOLICITED review. It was and is totally and completely my idea, which occurred to me AFTER purchasing and setting up these speakers. It is absolutely, positively NOT a shill. I swear to God.
(As a courtesy that had absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with this review, which I had already planned to write, Dale Pitcher was kind enough to send to me four small sheets of ERS cloth in an attempt to solve an RF problem, which I had contacted HIM about. They did not work in that application and are not in use. It should be obvious to even the most hardened cynic (and/or dullest moron) that this act of courtesy does not constitute compensation or a quid pro quo. It seems absurd even to mention it, but having navigated through some of the threads on this site, I’ve chosen to include this distracting and ridiculously trivial “disclosure” as the default course of action.)
Associated gear
Dedicated circuit with two pairs of Porter Ports 20 amp outlets in a 4-plex configuration.
Groneberg Reference Power Cords for Osyssey Stratos Extreme monoblocks, plugged directly into the Porter Ports (because that's what Klaus told me to do :) )
Groneberg Reference Powercord for Odyssey Tempest Extreme Preamp.
Some higher end Transparent Reference cord for the Dodson 217 Mark II D DAC.
Previous generation 10 amp Powervar
Onkyo Integra DPC 8.5 universal player.
Groneberg Digital Reference interconnect from cd player to DAC.
Audioquest (Python ???) interconnects from DAC to Preamp.
All other interconnects are Audioparts mas Signature, cryo treated interconnects.
Speaker cables are Audioparts Mas Signature Hybrid Reference bi-wires, with spades, stacked at the speakers' binding posts.
Cable to the Rel Storm 3 is Signal Cable Speakon. Rel is plugged with a "regular" power cord directly into the wall.
A Parasound R/EQ 150 has been modified so that it can be in the signal path but emulate a hard wire connection when set on bypass, which it usually is.
The Onkyo universal player, the DAC, the preamplifier, and both monoblocks sit on Audiopoints by StarSound Technologies, and the points sit on the matching discs.
Stillpoints with inverse risers support both speakers and both stands, with the whole assembly sitting on huge granite surface plates (I got the 75 pound plates for about 130-something dollars, including shipping, on ebay).
First generation Dakiom Feedback Stabilizers are put on the back of the CD player, the DAC and inside of the Rel, spliced into its amp.
Second generation Dakiom Feedback Stabilizers are on the back of the preamp and the back of both amps.
All connections are treated with Quicksilver, from Extreme A/V.
Similar products
Paradigm Studio 100 v3, Paradigm S8's, Aerial floorstanders (I think 7B but am not sure), JM Labs Mini or Micro Utopia Be monitors; Totem Winds--all recently before buying the Summits, and I owned the Studio 100's for about a year.
Long ago I listened to Audio Physic Caldera Loudspeakers.
Intuitive Design Summit model number PSL 624 (PSL=Pitcher Sound Labs)
Part I: Introduction
The Intuitive Design Summit Loudspeakers are almost certainly the last loudspeaker I will ever buy. They have completely blown away even my most ridiculously unrealistic expectations. This review will humbly attempt to do justice to these utterly magnificent, stunningly transcendent masterpieces of sonic transduction. I am a consumer with no affiliation to any audio retailer or manufacturer. My only goals are to inform the audiophile community about these and to pique its curiosity, possibly to the point where some people may actually to give these an audition—something they so richly deserve.
The review has seven parts:
1. Introduction;
2. Synopsis (just read this if you want to get the main points without
suffering through the whole tome);
3. The fleshed out, fully detailed narrative (extremely long and thorough, beware);
4. Photos;
5. Personal anecdotes and observations of others;
6. My poem: “Pitcher Perfect—The Fabulous Summits” (I had to do it!);
7. Disclaimer statement. (This is really stupid but is intended to preempt shill
accusations.)
Part II: Synopsis
The Intuitive Design Summits are a two-way, dynamic loudspeaker with a custom, proprietary, chambered, 1” soft dome tweeter; a 7” carbon pulp midbass driver; a first order crossover; capacitors manufactured on site by Intuitive Design; a granite cabinet; and the granite Path Stand System. Mine have Stillpoints and inverted risers under both of the speakers and both of the Path Stands, which in turn are placed on 18 x 12 x 3 inch, 75 pound granite surface plates.
Dimensions and weights, etc. (Rounded off):
Speakers: 19 ½ x 13 ½ x 11 inches, gross shipping weight=84 lbs (each) with boxes
Path Stands: 18 x 13 x 11 ¼ inches, gross shipping weight=92 lbs (each) with boxes,
but without the sand poured in
Overall, in our room (see photo with 4 foot “yard”stick): height is 43 ½ inches
Distance from back wall is between 26 and 28 inches to the BACK of each speaker
Room dimensions: 20 ft 10 in x 15 ½ ft x 9 ft (ceiling height)
Speakers are parallel to the longer wall.
These speakers are the best I’ve heard, with a unique and profoundly powerful
combination of high end smoothness and detail. The imaging is utterly three dimensional, stable and holographic, practically beyond belief. Off axis dispersion is outstanding, and yet the precision of the imaging seems to be completely unaffected by this. The entire sonic spectrum down to around the 40 hertz rolloff is presented with stark, vivid realism that is uncanny and seamless.
It must be noted that the superlative sonic attributes come to their fullest fruition only
when the Dodson 217 Mark II D DAC is in the signal path. The superb bass response is contingent on outstanding amplification, such as that provided by the Odyssey Extreme Monoblocks, which are rated at greater than 200 wpc, and are probably closer to 300, with outstanding current delivery, as assured by the presence of 360,000 microfarads of capacitance.
Part III: Fully Detailed Narrative
PLEASE UNDERSTAND THAT ALL COMPARISONS WITH OTHER BRANDS OF SPEAKERS ARE SUBJECTIVE, AND STRICTLY MY OWN OPINION BASED ON LIMITED LISTENING. ANY BRANDS I NAME BELOW WERE FAVORABLY IMPRESSIVE IN SOME WAY, AND ANY “DOGS” HAVE BEEN OMITTED. YOUR OPINION MAY VARY OR BE DIAMETRICALLY OPPOSED TO MINE, AND I DO NOT CONSIDER MINE TO BE THE REFERENCE, EXCEPT FOR ME.
I am 43 years old and have arrived at audiophile nirvana. The audiophile journey began in my teens, listening to speakers like the original AR 90 (never even got to hear the legendary AR 9’s). I vaguely remember a General Electric system, then a Panasonic system, 10 wpc solid state receiver with an 8 track and large, 2 way speakers with a passive radiator and soft, boomy bass, which I thought was great at the time. The first real system I had was during my 20’s, and included a Parasound receiver with preamp outputs, the legendary B&K ST140 amplifier, and what must have been the original (or near original) version of the Paradigm 9SE loudspeakers. Years passed and my audiophile interest was again piqued by loudspeaker listings on Audiogon. I ended up with Paradigm Studio 100 V3 speakers augmented by a Rel Storm 3 sub-bass unit and driven by Odyssey Extreme monoblocks, with a Rotel RC 995 preamp, and Dakiom Feedback Stabilizers. I was actually fairly satisfied, but not utterly transfixed in paroxysmal ecstasy like I am now.
Duane, a dealer who I’ve known for over 10 years, had been talking about a 3,000 dollar speaker that sounded like a 10,000 dollar speaker. (The Summits are about 3,500 dollars and the Path Stand System is about 1,500 dollars). I listened to them even though I was fairly satisfied with the Paradigms. I couldn’t believe the synergistic combination of smoothness, detail and bass reproduction combined with an excellent soundstage. Dynamic range was practically identical to that of the Paradigms and the mid bass was better. Given their price, I became upset and finally caved in and bought the Summits, plus upgraded the preamp, and added the Dodson.
As currently configured in my system, with Odyssey Monoblock Extreme amplifiers, an Odyssey Extreme Tempest Preamplifier, and the Dodson 217 Mark 2 D DAC with upgraded 218-like software, these are the finest loudspeakers I have ever heard, with the closest competitor being the old, three box version of the Audio Physic Caldera, fed by about 7000 dollars of front end electronics, including Spectral products. Those retailed for about 20,000. I listened to those several years ago and did so only once, but did use some of my own source material (Police, Synchronicity 2, Mobile Fidelity Sound Labs, gold disc). It’s a close call, the memory is less clear than before, the systems are different and there was never anything like an A/B, but the subjective impression of profound sonic excellence imparted by the Summits is even more powerful that imparted by the Calderas. Previously, there was nothing close to the Calderas, in my mind.
Other speakers I have listened to much more recently, which were great, but not as great as the Summits, (in my own, unscientific, subjective and possibly flawed opinion ONLY), include: 1. Totem Winds: Just a great loudspeaker, with great tonality and detail, great soundstage, but seemed inferior to the Summits with respect to soundstage height and, in retrospect, mid bass punch); 2. JM Lab (either Mini or Micro Utopias, whichever sell for around 5,000; these had the Be tweeter): Very detailed and fairly sweet high end, excellent midrange and soundstage, but quite lacking in the bass, seeming to roll off at a rather high frequency, and showing some softness and just a hint of boominess, not acceptable to me, even knowing they’d have been supplemented by the Rel; 3. One of the upper level Aerials, I think it was the 7B: Really a fine loudspeaker with true finesse and sweetness on the high end, and a very respectable soundstage. These seemed a little rolled off on the high end and possibly slightly lacking in sonic detail. Sonically they reminded me of some of Dale Pitcher’s earlier designs in the lower to middle echelons of the Essence lineup. Those were a very “nice” loudspeaker with no glaring weaknesses, but they never blew me away like his Summits do now.
Specifically:
1. The Summits have the most amazing combination of high end smoothness and detail I have ever heard in any loudspeaker, at any price, bar none, especially when the Dodson DAC is in the signal path (it is possible for me to listen A/B by switching inputs on the preamp between the player directly or through the Dodson). This confers an incredible, unique and stark realism that is practically indescribable. It is a consistent feature irrespective of program material, including rock music, classical music, jazz, bluegrass, folk music, and even other things like the Cybergenesis theme from the Terminator Soundtrack. Sumiko has a song used its by dealers in setting up systems called “Say a Prayer for the Cowgirl.” This is a well recorded track and sounded very good through the Paradigms. It sounded utterly real and qualitatively different—starkly so—through the Summits. The Paradigms made it sound like the woman was in the center of the soundfield, singing into a microphone. The Summits made it sound like her voice was being magically amplified with no microphone or any hint of electronic artifact whatsoever, i.e. she was THERE in the room, floating as if she were a singing ghost, with normal timbre, only louder than a typical unamplified human voice
2. The soundstage is truly 3-D, with uncanny depth, height, width, and stability, with the WIDEST SWEET SPOT I ever remember hearing, so much so that—get this—THE IMAGE IS PRESERVED, EVEN WHEN SEATED OUTSIDE OF THE LATERAL CONFINES OF THE SPEAKERS! Yes, that is really true. Last night we listened to Mozart’s Symphony No. 41, Jupiter, (Phillips Digital Classics, DDD), preformed by the “Orchestra of the 18th Century.” I was seated off center and outside of the plane of the edge of the right speaker. It was STILL like listening to the orchestra. I was amazed, able to perceive central imaging, off center imaging, and actually place the instrument sections of the orchestra both side to side and front to back. It was absolutely unreal. The soundfield hung in space as a stable, 3-D image, even from that position, seeming to become a holographic entity unto itself, rather than a well crafted psychoacoustic illusion based on auditory cues.
DEPTH and HEIGHT: These consistently convey depth of soundstage, the likes of which I didn’t even know could possibly exist in a stereo system. The tympani seemed to come from the back of the room on the Jupiter piece. With Dueling Banjos, the two banjos are placed very precisely and three dimensionally in space, every single time, as follows:
The first banjo is about 2 feet in front of, three or four feet to the side of, and one to two feet below, the second banjo. Both banjos sound exactly like banjos in the room, and they stay virtually locked in their respective positions throughout the piece, even when they start playing really fast, together. The taller one on the left may move in about a foot or so but that’s it. The various notes from the first banjo seem to emanate from different positions along a short diagonal corresponding to long axis of that banjo itself.
WIDTH: These are the first speaker I’ve heard in over 10 to 15 YEARS that project an image convincingly outside the lateral edge of the speaker, as perceived from the sweet spot. I first perceived this when the speakers were on brass spikes on top of the stands, which were on spikes coupled to the floor. Dale suggested granite surface plates and Stillpoints with inverted risers. I was wary but did it anyway and the image outside the speakers actually became MORE convincing and stable (base also improved, necessitating a downward adjustment in the Rel’s crossover, and detail sharpened still further). This lateral projection occurs with the Carlos Santana Song, “Black Magic Woman”, during the interlude near the end, where two separate sets of bongos are playing simultaneously. One set is projected outside of the right speaker, seeming to emanate from above the Rel, and the other is projected about one foot inside of the left speaker. Both also are projected about one or two feet BEHIND the speakers as well, and these images remain stable throughout the song. Other instruments are placed appropriately and stably in positions elsewhere on the soundstage.
3. BASS: The bass from these speakers is far better than any monitor I’ve ever heard, and in fact is more like that of a floorstander. The low end rolloff is stated to be around 40 hertz, and the bass with these is actually even better than what I heard from the Paradigm Studio 100 V 3 speakers that I owned for about a year. The crossover is set at 27 hertz, not 28 like I had thought in an earlier post to a thread. The midbass punch is just as excellent as that of the Paradigms, and just a tad richer without being soft or fuzzy. I had had concerns about a two way system going so low, but the midrange doesn’t suffer at all. Dale Pitcher had mentioned some potential “Doppler issues”, potentially introducing distortion when the 7” carbon pulp driver has greater excursion at higher volumes. I have simply NOT been able to hear this, ever. I think that they are actually “Doppler NON-issues.”
Part IV. Photos—See below.
Part V. Personal anecdotes and observations of others, including non-audiophiles.
1. Alien abduction-like, lost time:
I was listening to these and it was getting later, around 9:04 on a school night. I wanted to listen to only one more song, for about 5 minutes. I listened for about 5 minutes, and glanced casually at the clock, startled to see that is was about 9:53. Then I remembered having listened to not just one but several songs, losing track of time. No aliens. It was kind of weird, though.
2. Closing my eyes, images of musicians playing instruments, moving and singing spontaneously appear in my mind’s eye, unprompted by me.
3. Our 10-year-old daughter’s friend was listening and asked why the loudspeakers suddenly sounded so “good”, after we got the Summits. Our 12 year old son said that it was weird that such a small speaker could sound so great, even compared with a larger floorstander. My mother in law is NOT an audiophile and NEVER had asked me to play the stereo (married 17+ years), but did just that when she heard “Dueling Banjos”. My 75 year old mother said that following the setup of these speakers, it was the first time she’d ever been able to detect a sonic difference out of all the other upgrades and tweaks. She thought that bass and separation were better.
A close family friend of ours, Rose, had this to say:
“The Intuitive Design Summit listening experience provides sensory delight in every sense of the word. The sound is ingested, swallowed whole, distributed to the senses, and the eyes watch while the sound dances overhead, just in front of the minds eye, just barely out of physical reach. There is a definitive head and heart connection, which delights the soul and the even the “average” listener will delight in the effect.
“The sound penetrates the senses, notes dance in the field of vision, while the auditory nerves carry the sound deep inside the chest/heart where the feeling is indescribable. I have never in my life ever heard or felt the notes in such a strong sense. The experience has been one of the most intense feelings I have ever allowed to wash over me and over take me.
“I do not consider myself an audiophile. Instead, I would consider myself a dilettante.”
Part VI. The Poem, “Pitcher Perfect: Ode to the Summits”
i know there are those who will think this a shill
but please understand that these loudspeakers thrill
so before you post pot shots, loud and shrill
please take a quick listen, if you will
your soul will shine, sparkle and glisten
if only you’ll give these fine speakers a listen
for then you should find my words to be true
but ‘til you listen, you won’t have a clue
the time’s getting late as I look at the clock
but I just had to tell you---these loudspeakers ROCK!
Part VII. The “Disclaimer”
Disclaimer/conflict of interest statement: NOTHING at all, I am just an ecstatic customer who’s been waiting anxiously to post this UNSOLICITED review. It was and is totally and completely my idea, which occurred to me AFTER purchasing and setting up these speakers. It is absolutely, positively NOT a shill. I swear to God.
(As a courtesy that had absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with this review, which I had already planned to write, Dale Pitcher was kind enough to send to me four small sheets of ERS cloth in an attempt to solve an RF problem, which I had contacted HIM about. They did not work in that application and are not in use. It should be obvious to even the most hardened cynic (and/or dullest moron) that this act of courtesy does not constitute compensation or a quid pro quo. It seems absurd even to mention it, but having navigated through some of the threads on this site, I’ve chosen to include this distracting and ridiculously trivial “disclosure” as the default course of action.)
Associated gear
Dedicated circuit with two pairs of Porter Ports 20 amp outlets in a 4-plex configuration.
Groneberg Reference Power Cords for Osyssey Stratos Extreme monoblocks, plugged directly into the Porter Ports (because that's what Klaus told me to do :) )
Groneberg Reference Powercord for Odyssey Tempest Extreme Preamp.
Some higher end Transparent Reference cord for the Dodson 217 Mark II D DAC.
Previous generation 10 amp Powervar
Onkyo Integra DPC 8.5 universal player.
Groneberg Digital Reference interconnect from cd player to DAC.
Audioquest (Python ???) interconnects from DAC to Preamp.
All other interconnects are Audioparts mas Signature, cryo treated interconnects.
Speaker cables are Audioparts Mas Signature Hybrid Reference bi-wires, with spades, stacked at the speakers' binding posts.
Cable to the Rel Storm 3 is Signal Cable Speakon. Rel is plugged with a "regular" power cord directly into the wall.
A Parasound R/EQ 150 has been modified so that it can be in the signal path but emulate a hard wire connection when set on bypass, which it usually is.
The Onkyo universal player, the DAC, the preamplifier, and both monoblocks sit on Audiopoints by StarSound Technologies, and the points sit on the matching discs.
Stillpoints with inverse risers support both speakers and both stands, with the whole assembly sitting on huge granite surface plates (I got the 75 pound plates for about 130-something dollars, including shipping, on ebay).
First generation Dakiom Feedback Stabilizers are put on the back of the CD player, the DAC and inside of the Rel, spliced into its amp.
Second generation Dakiom Feedback Stabilizers are on the back of the preamp and the back of both amps.
All connections are treated with Quicksilver, from Extreme A/V.
Similar products
Paradigm Studio 100 v3, Paradigm S8's, Aerial floorstanders (I think 7B but am not sure), JM Labs Mini or Micro Utopia Be monitors; Totem Winds--all recently before buying the Summits, and I owned the Studio 100's for about a year.
Long ago I listened to Audio Physic Caldera Loudspeakers.
178 responses Add your response
Thanks for the advice, guys. I have the stands filled half-way with silica sand, and the sound certainly tightened up, and the silences became deeper, blacker, more palpable. Also the upper transients (triangle, celesta) are pristine and delicate. I may go ahead a follow Mdhoover's 2/3's suggestion. BTW, I have the older Stillpoints dampers screwed into the bottoms of the Gammas pointing into the Stillpoints Mini-Risers, and into the bottoms of the Path stands pointing into the Stillpoints Inverse Risers. Much better in my application than granite slabs. The Inverse Risers are directly on medium-shag carpet. Truly awesome sound. |
What Theaudotweak said is so true. You can also overdo room treatments to the point of killing your sound. He has it right, fill the stands or do a room with traps and diffusors til you hear the life go out of the music, then back it off a bit til the sound becomes vibrant but not ringy or echo-ridden . |
Hi Bill. That's good news you are finally getting a chance to hear them. They are incredible speakers for the money. I originally demoed the base level Summit and my wife and I both thought they were substantially better than the Merlins VSMs I had at the time (the level below the Mx s/p mod). I ended up with the Gammas due to audio greed. I sold them due to chase that audio itch and in retrospect, that was a mistake. I am actually looking to buy one of Dale's big new speakers in the future (the Curve) when it finally appears. Time will tell. I still own Dale's current SOTA conditioner (Suspension Bridge) and his cabling. |
Bill (aka Grannyring), Thank you for your kind words. You'll be able to make up your own mind this weekend. With respect to the review, it may (or may not...) be useful for you to look at the following update added above (in 2006) after over a year of listening: Now that over a year has passed... Dale's cables are also a great addition, but the above 2005 review was written prior to using ANY of his cables. A link to my review of his cables (which are now out of date; i.e., I believe he's come up with something even better since this was posted), is here: Mosaic Chimera Speaker Cables |
I can attest that Dale's newest interconnect line is magnificent. I have the mid-level Intuitive Design Mosaic Delta and it shamed the Audioquest Sky and Audience Au24 I compared it with. I had the top-of-the-line Mosaic Nu for a brief time, and it was superb. Dale's stuff always amazes me. At first I don't expect much, but then I listen to it and I can't believe how good it sounds - I have to have it. |
Dale's designs are always musical and beautiful in their look and construction. I for one, would consider grounding these speakers with something other than granite and Stillpoints. Either by design or by an accident of nature these materials and or their geometry slow and impede the eventual from happening. Energy will always seek ground thru the path of least resistance. Having owned a couple of Essence amps and a pair of Model 30's I have some real world experience with the improvements made by mechanical coupling to ground with these particular models. Tom |
Theaudiotweak, you seem to be a fan of Audio Points and Sistrum. I use those on more conventional speakers and gear. Seems owners of the Summit speaker have had better success with Stillpoints and granite. Even Dale the builder suggests Stillspoints and granite. I would think he knows as he is quite accomplished in this field of knowledge. |
Yes I am a fan of those products and have developed some new ones for acoustic instruments that rest on the floor. I sold Essence products back in the early 80's and have always been a fan of Dale's. The original amps with the Corian chassis and floating transformer and amp module were intended to be lifted off the floor of the unit with 3 Audio Points. The installation of those 3 items were my turn on to that material and geometry. From then on I never looked back. Happy Fathers Day everyone. Tom |
"Bill, can you please tell me where you purchased those granite slabs. I cannot seem to find where to purchase them."Grannyring (aka Bill), I'm pretty sure that THIS is where I got the plates. |
Theaudiotweak brings up a great point: until fairly recently, very few manufacturers have understood the power of mechanical grounding. Dale and Starsound are part of that very small club. The Gammas are good speakers without the stands (I tried them that way as an experiment). With the stands, they go beyond normal speakers. People have made fun of mechanical grounding in these forums, and called it snake oil and witchcraft, but it most certainly is not..... |
I thought I would update the Intuitive Design community on my latest findings of my Gammas Summits. I have owned these for almost 3 years now and some of you will note that I tried to sell these a while ago with various buyers backing out at the last moment. I was trying to sell the Gammas because I had another very fine pair of speakers that I thought would be almost impossible to sell and the wife demanded that I thin the crop. Well to make a long story short the other pair did sell so I kept the Gamma Summits. The amps I had remaining was a push-pull 2a3 tubed 15 watt monos that sounded good but certainly not enough for these speakers. I ended up purchasing a pair of custom tube mono blocks at a price that I could not pass up. 70 watts per channel and it is the best sounding amp I have ever heard. The gammas have responded in ways I didn't think possible. At low volume all the details are there and when I crank it up the bass can't be believed for mid-sized monitor. Never harsh but always relaxing and non-fatiguing. So in the long run I am very happy the gammas never sold and I plan on keeping them for a long time. |
Bravo Bob. I had the TRL ST-100s on the Gammas and it was mind blowing. I had to part with Gammas due to their instability around the little one (and this is something by the way that Bill Hoover insisted I do). I am awaiting a floor standing speaker from Dale that will hopefully be a good surrogate for the Gammas. I also sold the ST-100 due to theoretical safety concerns (stupid). Anyway, the Gammas are THE most sensitive speaker I have owned in regards to amp synergy (that and setup). People have sold them without doing their due diligence.... |
Wow, Bob! I thought you'd ditched them. I must say it's no surprise whatsoever that you're as pleased as you are with the outcome of having kept the Gammas. Your post highlights the fact that, although not hugely difficult to drive, the Summits DO LIKE POWER AND CURRENT. Andrew: I stand by my recommendation/insistence that you purge your listening room of the Gammas due to stability issues. Yes, they're utterly phenomenal beyond all possible belief. No, it's not a "child-proof" design. Although your child probably wouldn't have been hurt by the monitor falling off its base, "probably" isn't good enough, at least in my opinion. In other words, it's a no-brainer, and, of course, I'm good at those....LOL. |
Glaucon, I found your post the other day about the tweak with the Sheffield CD. Your ownership of Gamma Summits intrigued me, then I followed you back to this thread (I'm not stalking you, I SWEAR). This leads, rather circuitously, to a question: Did you ever determine the optimal level of sand for your Path Stands? (i.e., Half versus 2/3 full) |
Dr Hoover- I filled the Path stands half full of dessicated Silica sand, and it certainly improved the sound. I then went ahead and filled it some more to a total of 2/3. Seemed to get better and certainly was not worse, so I decided to leave it like that (it would have been a pain to scoop out the sand again, to try either more or less sand). Just to bring people up to date with my Gamma Summit tweaks: I have Dale Pitcher's top Intuitive Mosaic speaker cable (bought from Agear, BTW), and found that using the Shunyata Dark Field cable risers made an immediately noticeable improvement. I'm very happy to have spend the $225 for 12. (I had the speaker cable on open plastic CD replacement cases before the Shunyata.) Also, I currently have the Gamma Summits coupled to the Path stands with Stillpoints Ultra SS screwed into the bottom of the speakers. One major improvement: use the flat-centered matching stainless steel hard-hats (not the cupped ones). In fact, I'm about to try removing those hard hats and having the Ultra SS couple directly to the Path stands. Finally, since I now have 6 of the Stillpoins Ultra 5, 3 on the Essence Preamp and 3 on the Essence Amp, I'm going to try switching them to the speakers and the Ultra SS to the electronics. I'll report back on changes in sound after each stage. Happy listening! |
Glaucon, Thanks for the detailed response. (You--or any other Audiogon member--can certainly call me Bill, by the way.) It's enviable that you have an Essence amp AND preamp! So, here are some more bothersome questions: 1) Are you running a subwoofer/sub-bass unit with the Summits? 2) Any chance you'll post a virtual system {I'm too embarrassed by "Gladys" (the huge "entertainment" center) to post a virtual system, at least yet; plus this review can function as an approximate surrogate for such a posting....} any time soon? 3) Failing that, and not having researched your posts very well, what are you using for a front end? Thanks in advance. p.s. I agree that there's a "grain" of truth to the stated inconvenience of scooping out sand for A/B comparisons, and sure as hell wouldn't do it either. |
Cdc, That's a loaded question. I listened to one of the above brands at the 2007 RMAF, quite briefly. They sounded quite good. The room was full of fascinated audiophiles. The sound staging was very precise and the detail was superb. However, they simply lacked the high end smoothness of the Summits (TO MY EARS ONLY AND OTHERS MAY VIOLENTLY DISAGREE AND THAT'S OK) and overall I strongly preferred the Summits. (The year being 2007 shows how UNINTERESTED I remain in replacing the Summits--maybe Denalis someday but probably not....) The speakers that rivaled the Summits are the Kharma's that I heard at the 2007 RMAF. The ~30K Kharmas were probably as good, maybe better to some ears, perhaps slightly inferior to other ears. The ~80K Kharmas are almost certainly better than the Summits, but they were being driven by solid state MBL amplifiers that were ever so slightly lacking in smoothness, so that assessment is partly based on another audiophile's opinion (which tends to correspond to mine EXTREMELY well). The Intuitive Design Denalis are unequivocally better than the Summits, and that's based on having listened for ~3 hours in someone's home on a wonderful afternoon in Cedar Rapids, Iowa. I haven't listened to the Ohms, Rockports or Raidhos. (As an aside, another speaker that deserves to be mentioned among "special" bang-for-the-buck offerings is the Induction Dynamics 2 way monitor for ~3000 dollars, if it's even still being made. Probably better overall than the Totem Tabu at the same price point, and that's saying something (AGAIN THIS IS TO MY EARS ONLY). About the only other Audiogon member I've seen mention those is Csmgolf. In my opinion, anyone in the market for a spectacular bookshelf monitor in the 3K price range should at least give those a listen--if they're sill being made, of course.) |
That's great Bob. I know you came close to selling them a few times until you found the right amp. That is one key with that speaker. Dale is a pearl of great price so to speak in audio. There is a beauty and naturalness to his stuff that I partially attribute to true time and phase alignment and mechanical grounding to create that spooky, black frame for the music. Many of his customers become long termers like Mdhoover and myself. Enjoy... |
Will have to agree with the statement that "Dale Pitcher Rocks" posted by Bob Heinatz on 10/19/14. I just finished another late evening music listening session (last disc, Crosby, Stills and Nash, so sweet) and am now heading off to a peaceful slumber. Criminy! These speakers are so, so, SO, freaking awesome! Yeah, it's sweet being (almost, anyway) "off the grid." Night, fellow 'philes. ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ |
I too must agree that Dale Pitcher rocks. Having previously owned the Summits and commenting on this thread, I found that an update is needed. I eventually sold the Summits as for my taste, they were limited in upper SPL output. I have gone through a number of speakers since, always searching for the extra SPL when needed to go with a large portion of the magic of the Summits that many others on this thread have ably described. It has been both an enlightening and frustrating experience. Dale's speakers have a "rightness" that is incredibly difficult to describe that is immediately obvious when you hear it. To cut to the chase, I am back in the Dale Pitcher family of speakers. I came across a too good to pass up deal locally for a pair of Essence Topaz 6 speakers. These are a direct offshoot of the Essence Amethyst 10a. Most all of the principles that Dale uses to this day are present in this speaker. They are a 4 way, transmission line loaded for all drivers, first order crossover speaker utilizing individual enclosures that are individually mechanically isolated and adjustable for time alignment. They also have wave launch charts to fine tune the time alignment for distance from the speaker and ear height from the floor. It has been quite some time since I have listened to the Summit, so I couldn't say which does what better. One thing is for certain when you take a close look at all of Dale's designs. Each and every factor is carefully thought out and then tackled in a way that no one else does IME. The end results speak for themselves. The sonic resemblance between the Topaz 6 and the Summit from my recollection is quite stunning. I am not finished with tweaking position, etc., but the results to this point are more than even I hoped when I went to audition/purchase these. Considering that these are nearly 20 years old I would have to say that Dale Pitcher was way out in front of the curve. |
Csmgolf, there is a rightness to Dale's stuff that is indeed immediately obvious. I attribute a lot of that to time and phase alignment. I felt the same way about Meadolark (RIP). I just spoke with a dude in OK who now owns three pairs of Summits! Some of the SPL issues can be addressed with either amp choice (the Summits are very sensitive to this and I heard night and day differences with amp changes) and a subwoofer as Mdhoover has done. Either way, congrats and welcome back to the family. |
It seems like I give the Intuitive Design community a 12 month update so I guess the time is here. Still amazed at how good the gammas perform day to day. I have made some changes in the past year which have increased my listening enjoyment. First I sold my custom mono block tube amps and replaced them with a 13 watts push pull 2A3 based monoblocks. Guys you can't believe how they sound and the bass I am getting out of these amps. BTW these 13 watters cost about a quarter of the price of the custom amps but I enjoy them so much more. The other major change is I have gotten back into vinyl. I have a moderate priced TT and can't believe the emotional connection I now have with music. My digital gear is outstanding but very rarely gets used anymore. I will be upgrading my turntable in the very near future and selling my digital gear. If you aren't emotionally connected to the music like I am now with vinyl you owe it to yourself to check it out. To be continued when I upgrade turntables. Gammas still do it for me. |
Good for you Bob. Its funny things are copacetic years later despite your repeated attempts at an exorcism. What 2A3 amps are you using? James D in Minnesota, who introduced me to ID, has had a vinyl renaissance as well (Well Tempered). What digital were you using? Lampizator (tubed dac) has worked well with my Illuminations.... |