A great deal of time? How about listening to the amp to see how the tubes sound...that takes about 3 minutes. |
I do have one dissimilar 120, and since it works fine I ignore that although it did bug me...but I get it. I suppose the good news is the fact that anybody makes tubes at all since it really seems to be a fiddly hands on thing. I watched an entire old film about the Blackburn Mullard factory (somebody here posted the link)...amazing. |
Although I barely care what ARC says about most things, I'm tempted to ask them about the 150s simply because I was asked not to. |
Curious. My Jolida 502 handles KT120s fine (although not necessarily designed for that tube), but I have to wonder if I'd be pushing my luck with 150s...I have no need to go beyond 120s but since my quad are getting older I'll have to change 'em eventually. I don't particularly like the 150's "pickle innuendo" look, but maybe it would grow on me. I bet, unless some unforseen issue exists, these will be a hit. |
KT150s are on Ebay for less than that, so maybe those are cryoed or something. |
The current best price for a quad is 300 bucks...that's where they should be I think. My 4 120s have been in heavy daily use for a year and a half with no signs of weakening...serious hours...they refuse to die...what the hell is wrong with them? |
7000 hours is two years or so at 10 hours a day...or 30 years at one hour a day...300 years at a minute a day? |
This is the first I've heard of KT120 quality issues, and I think it's interesting Davide has experienced "erratic" manufacturing when they're made in the same factory as GL tubes (maybe the Gold Lion quality control team should visit other parts of the factory...lazy bastards!). I'd say that's some bad tube luck as New Sensor must have made a batch after lunch on a Wednesday. I don't doubt other people must have had issues at some point with 120s as they're everywhere, but I've made it a quest to find criticism of 120s as they're such a hit. The official score is 752 to 3 against 120s! Also it's interesting to see such interest in 150s when (like me) 120s work so well (except Davide's). Premium 120s with gold pins, etc., have surprisingly never appeared...Psvane should make some of those as I'd try 'em! |
Wait...it's been another 2 days of waiting for Kal's testing results...I can't handle the suspense...I'm in audio LIMBO... |
KT 150s are likely to never appear in a guitar amp, unless somebody thinks they need a very clean unusually high powered guitar amp, which most guitar players don't. I don't think anybody makes a KT120 powered guitar amp, although a tube bass amp might be a good idea for those.
I found that the new-ish version Psvane 12AX7-T II is a great match with 120s...in my Jolida 502 anyway. |
My KT120s must have more than 3000 hours on them by now, and no signs of drifting bias or sonic issues yet...they still sound strong. |
Yeah...after 3000 plus hours I think these are starting to break in...by next June they should be gettin' real good. |
Unfortunately, due to the shape of the KT150 I can only assume that emergency rooms will eventually be dealing with those who've decided to cram them up their...uh...nevermind...innapropriate...sorry... |
I can't imagine my amp sounding better than it does with 120s, and unless an amp is designed around the 150s to be more powerful I don't see spending the bucks on 150s...thus 120s become a serious bargain. |
It seems ridiculous that somebody would claim 1900 hours is "near the end of their useful life" for KT120s unless that person was trying to sell you something...that would make perfect sense. I'm shooting for 5000 hours or more for my 120s, which should bring me to the point where 150s are much less expensive than during the current feeding frenzy. |
If the 120s or any tube for that matter start to SOUND bad, become hard to keep biased, or explode and destroy your hamster sleeping in his ball next to the hifi (this is sad as you should never leave the hamster in the ball)...then certainly they should be replaced. |
True. True. 150s are priced to the current market, and my hoping they'd be cheaper eventually is simply wishful thinking...today if needed I'd just get another set of matched 120s as they seem to be a relative bargain and sound great. |
Icon Audio is already featuring 'em. They sort of beat everybody to the punch with those. |
Cheapest 150s I've seen are $300 for a quad. |
I might buy a quad of 150s when my 120s die just to see if my amp would blow up. Am I so wrong? Seems the amp (Jolida 502p) can take it...plus I'm getting curious about the 150s and starting to overcome the pickle-esque vibe. |
I think the "don't ask ARC" thing was about protecting the sensitive ARC people from further stress, as Hifigeekl is nothing if not compassionate. I, however, am not. I read in a Brit hifi mag last night that 150s are a "drop in" replacement for 120s, and have a smoother sound...that's what the dude said. The tiny difference in heater requirements make it seem he might be right. I still have never seen anything regarding an amp tranny frying from 120s replacing kt88s anywhere ever at all even once. I'll keep looking. |
I may have mentioned someplace that I've seen 150s on Ebay for around 300 bucks for a quad...that seems almost reasonable. |
One bit of hype that seems silly is the claim that the pickle shape eliminates microphonics...assuming this shape doesn't allow vibration from anywhere to get to the tube...nonesense. |
I'm not capable of mixing thoughts...one thought at a time for me. Does "life testing" involve carrying the tubes around with you? Restaurants, dentist visits, etc....or simply talking to the tubes about life..."You were sand and chemicals once...and NOW look at you!" |
Does "valve denudation" involve removing the glass tube? That certainly would have impact on longevity, and thankfully there is little "prescience" in audio, especially since these tubes have been clearly vetted by others. My bet is that ARC has piles of 120s to get rid of before sticking 150s in their amps. |
Florid language notwithstanding, never underestimate the potential of good natured criticism of pretentiously misused words, sloppy grammar, and self indulgent obfuscation, as it can reveal the insecurity of the offender and the air pressure sustained by the gasbag. |
I only ask that the poster understands the posted words, and at least attempts to use them correctly...example: "potency" makes little sense in the context of this exchange, and "intentional parapraxis" is an oxymoron. My criticism in this case avoids "mixed metaphor" as it is nothing if not direct, and sort of fun...man...I need to get out more... |
BASE NOTES...man..."Base fishing anyone?" I may get a quad of 150s (300 bucks is the magic number here) and plop them in my Jolida and just stand back with a fire extinguisher and wait...either it blows up and destroys my entire neighborhood or the tubes actually work. Is a tiny increase in heater current really causing people to wait on these? I say MAN UP people...and report back. |
Ebay had that price from somebody a few times...seems actually fair. |
I'm a bass player who doesn't fish. |
I'm confused...Only ARC has matched sets? Have other matched sets proved unreliable? I don't understand what that means since you say they haven't approved them for use, but then I'm easily confused. Many Ebay sellers know what they're doing and are rated by the customers so there's that, and my experience with non frozen or overpriced KT120s worked out fine. |
There seems to be some confusion regarding 120s or 150s, and I like it. |
I think it's lame to design a tube amp that doesn't allow you to easily see the tubes...The Rogers EHF 200 gets my vote for current KT150 design champ. |
Tubes and VU meters...I put my Squeezebox on the VU setting a lot. It makes digital seem warm and comforting. |
No...we need to wait...when 120s were thought to possibly be a threat to mankind itself and reported amp issues relative to higher heater demands were exactly zero...zero...we were cautious and...well...uh...nevermind. |
Tli...what you suggest requires bravery and utter selflessness well beyond what most would be willing to risk...and a little over 300 bucks. |
The "life testing" of 150s has taken so long that it's starting to freak me out...I can't take it...keeps me up at night...what will ARC say? What if they say NO? Then all my excitement about pickle shaped overpriced retro-tech microphonics resisting room heater dildos will have been for NOTHING. Damn... |
Last thing I need is somebody coming to my door at 2AM to confiscate my tubes. Or maybe that's the second to last thing...in any case it's a thing. |
Confessions: I don't own an ARC amp, but I approve of them generally, and I'm really in no hurry to try 150s so no amps shall be harmed around here. Also, I check my bias on the factory upgraded (I mention that fact to show I care) Jolida 502p I DO own fairly often for no reason other than I have a meter and enjoy risking knuckle burns. I've noticed the LEDs used for bias setting on this amp are very accurate so really the meter is unnecessary, but I do it anyway...500mv per the manual, and the bias on the 120s stays on track really well, even after over 2 years of abuse. According to the Absolute Sound mag I got yesterday, Jolida just put out a new line of power amps with KT150s called "Luxor", and since Jolida hasn't updated their website since 2004 you have to dig through United Home Audio's site to find anything about them. Somebody get those guys a publicist! |
Wow...Jolida DID update their site...I stand corrected. |
My 120s refuse to die, and there is no reason 150s should cost much more than 120s, except for greed and market demand, which makes the world go around. That and momentum in space and gravity...or something. |
I was going to get a set of 150s, but now the fun has been ruined by all this yammering... |
I realize you meant AR is one of the biggest tube "users" in the world, but I'd be willing to bet Fender makes their tube inventory look minuscule. Guitar amp companies don't seem to use large tubes like 120s and 150s much if at all (bass amps, with a few exceptions like the mighty Ampeg SVT, are mostly SS) beyond EL34s, EL84s, 6L6s and 6V6s...those are the power tubes of choice generally, and they use a LOT of 'em. I would buy another set of 120s in a heartbeat and likely should since mine are getting a little worn and 150s cost about twice as much...although I did see a quad for under 300 clams recently...hmm.... |
I just ordered a quad of KT150s for my Jolida 502p because I live on the edge...also they hit my magic cheapness number on Ebay, so I guess I live on the edge of cheapness. |
I completely forgot how old this thread was, and I just re-read the whole thing (something I never do)...I've been using some Sovtek kt88s and Tung Sol 6550s from my "barely used" tube stash once I sensed recently that the 120s might have been finally losing it...I'd like to publicly thank those tubes for stepping in before they're sadly put back in the drawer. I might make some sort of LED lit display for my collection of spent tubes since I love the way they look. I just stuck some new Gold Lion Premium "matched everything" 12Ax7s in my amp and although they sound amazing (really), they DON'T GLOW worth a damn, a fact thetubestore warned about in their hype...they're worth every penny though. Also, in case anybody is keeping track, the 150s cost $269 a quad including shipping. |
I've been using tube amps since about 1962 (albeit that was my cousin's white Bandmaster guitar amp), and anytime my Nutz get into a thread, well, it's a good thing...note that with all of those tube guitar amps nobody cared one bit about warm up or bias...we silly kids had no idea what bias was (I assume the repair dudes did). In any case, I've swapped the tubes out of my Jolida plenty and always turn the bias WAY down...after dialing the bias back and sticking new tubes in (and looking out for explosions or large flames) I wait a while and reset it, then check it again hours later...most tubes seem to stay in bias fairly well after the first warmup tweak, but I'm a serial tube finger burning bias freak anyway so I'll be poking it with my meter probes willy nilly. |
Happy to report that the 150s are great...not unlike the 120s initial impression of effortless expansion of the whole frequency spectrum, and it seems the amp is a little louder, although that could be my imagination...little more heat but no biggie, bias is even and holding fine (after initially biasing them to the 500mv amp specs, all of the tubes were up 50mv when I re-set them later, no clue why but at least they were even!). My only criticism is that there's less filament glow like my newly installed "hidden filament" GL 12AX7s...I want more glow damnit, but will learn to live with it somehow...at least my Mullard 12AT7s look alive... |
I don't own an ARC amp, but having followed this issue I feel I can finally sleep at night knowing the suspense and drama presented to the ever cautious ARC owner by the 150 dilemma is finally resolved. Whew...now I gotta buy some stock in Tung Sol. |
The latest data from my uber-scientific research regarding "damage from 120s/150s due to filament draw" says they will not damage a god damned thing. You can read more about this study in my earlier post, and if they damage your ARC it will be the first ever reported incident of this sort of damage and I'll send you a little certificate to commemorate the event. Totally worth the risk...and to update the status of MY new KT150s: They are GREAT sounding tubes. |
Note to self: Start selling larger tube cages and top covers to ARC amp owners with KT150s...maybe a lid bulge? |
