I think you may be on to something JBG! Maybe we should keep things quiet! :-) |
Hey Johhny - alas I think you called it 100%! Oh well, they still seem to be a bargain! Oops - now I just drove up asking prices! |
Thanks to all of you! You guys are the best! |
Hey, thought I would wake up this old thread. You see, just for kicks I got a second old Scott on these very pages, a 222-D. This D had some work done to it including the replacement of resistors mentioned in this thread. I know this is hardly scientific, but I'd like to offer my comparison to the never touched 222-A (I bought a few months ago and this repaired 222-D. One will win out for the living room while the other will go in my wife's studio (she is an art teacher).
A few caveats - the 222-D needs to have the bias set and I need to go get a voltmeter (this is all new to me). The 222-D has adequate tubes, but the seller told me I might want to look into better tubes. The description of the work on the 222-D is: "Replaced coupling caps and bias resistors, replaced selenium rectifier, cleaned all controls and switches, replaced power filter cap, repaired solder connections."
Okay, so though these are not the exact same amps I have to say right out of the box (40 years after it was in its original box!), the 222-D just does not sound as musical and warm as the 222-A. There is something about the A that instantly blew me away, but is not quite there with the D. The D has a great soundstage, way more bass, but there is something in the tone of the A I can't describe. I could go on with all kinds of totally subjective audiophile terminology here ("liquid smooth mids and tight responsive bass... blah blah blah..."), but I won't do that.
However, one of my "test" CDs is Glenn Gould's Goldberg Variations (his later/older version from the 1980s). I have listened to this recording a million times and with the 222-A, the piano sound is wonderful and brings out "piano-ness" to near perfection to my ears. FYI, I have a real Steinway grand sitting 12 away feet from the amp, so I know what a piano sounds like!!! The D sounds nice on this same recording, but after the A, it is really no comparison. It's nice, it is all there, but there is no "magic."
However, now I will go out and set the bias, try some better tubes and report back. In the mean time, any thoughts or suggestions?
P.S. You might be able to figure out who I bought this D from and I want to clearly state he was a fantastic seller and I am 100% satisfied with the purchase. My comparing the D to A is in no way a commentary on anything about the seller of this D. He was perfect and a class act for sure. Couldn't find a better seller anywhere. |
Hi JBG!
Okay - I am a complete neophyte here to electronics, so I am simply and dumbly parroting what I have been told! :-)
I think he only replaced resistors that measured bad and then used some type of higher quality resistors he has a supply of. As to getting magic back, I never heard this amp before it was repaired, so I will never know what it used to sound like. The only think I can do is compare it to the 222-A which is untouched and sounds great. Maybe not the best comparison, but what the heck. I think new tubes are the way to go for now. Can I ask another newby question - who do you recommend for tubes, meaning a place to shop from who can offer honest advice? |
Thanks Ecclectique,
My only question now is where is a non-technical neophyte to go to to have his old Scott checked out? Who can I trust to have the same kind of knowledge and care I find here on audiogon? My little 222 A has such a nice sound I am loath to risk it, but at the same time, the thing has not been touched in 40 years! |
Thanks Johnny - I live in Philadelphia, but can ship it out. I'm just worried about the selenium rectifiers being so old. I don't want an overall - just preventative maintenance. |
Just a FYI, I have run into a variety of audio dealer people who tell me there is no way my old Scott can hold up to ANY new equipment, so I have had a $1200 Jolida 302 tube amp here and a $800ish Rotel integrated ss amp in a AB it just isn't happening - the Scott sounds so much better - same source, same interconnects, same speakers... I tell these same people this and they still say I am wrong. I even called my turntable mfg today on another subject and after asking about my system he also told me to throw out my old Scott and get a Creek integrated. It is amazing to me how people can have such opinions without even hearing the thing they want to throw away. Their arrogance makes it that much more absurd. Again, my background is in actually playing music, but if all this is true, why are vintage guitar amps or effect devices, analog synthesizers... so sought after, even by pro musicians who can afford almost anything? |
Hi Johnny - I'm sorry I can't answer your questions (or that nobody else has), but I thought I would just say hello. I am really continuing to enjoy my 222A. |
Hello, I thought I would wake up this thread with a question (and boy do I sound like a total newby up there in those old posts!). Alas, my 222A is starting crackle and pop somewhat frueqently. My problem is, where do I go/send it to get it checked out? I read enough warnings about how various replacements could ruin what I like most about this amps sound, so now I am wary. I live in Philly, but I could ship it anywhere. I tried writing www.hotglassaudio.com and http://www.nosvalves.com/, but the former's mailbox was full and the latter seems quite busy. In addition, I know nothing about either one (just Google). I have about zero electronics knowledge, but is there anything I could check on my own? Could it just be tubes? |
Hey JBG, good to see you are still around! I did check connections and microphonic tubes, but no go. The thing is it seems to be getting worse, more frequent yet unpredictable and happens at any odd moment. From that I am thinking it might be time to get it checked out. I just cooresponded with Craig at www.nosvalves.com. I think he has the right philosophy (no wild modifications, just get it back to spec since Scott engineers knew what they were doing), So, I am about 99% sure I am going to have him work it up. What do you think? Am I making a big potential mistake? I have read all the warnings here, but I still can't see how something this old couldn't benefit from being worked on.
Thanks |
JBG, you are always looking out for me! I could swear I first heard about nosvalves somewhere here on audiogon (I bookmarked it long ago). I do remember that wherever I found it, was with some good recommendations. I just did a forum search and found two or three people who mentioned nosvalves and dropped them an email. |
Ldatlof and Wwwrecords,
Thanks for the glowing advice (slight pun intended - tubes, glow...). I am definately going ahead with Craig at Nosvalves.
Thanks! |
Will do. I'll let you know about everything!
I agree about the budget issues. Before I found my Scott I thought I had to spend thousands and thousands for great sound and I indeed spent thousands and thousands for nice, but not entirely satisfying sound (Totem, Rotel, B&W...). Actually I now know you don't have to spend so much $$$ even for great sounding new gear (Prima Luna integrated for example), but it is tough out there and most of us learn the lessons only after spending money.
My speakers are Omega Loudspeakers Super 3Rs. I bought them about three years ago. Omega has a new model of my speaker out now and here is the website: http://www.omegaloudspeakers.com/super%203.htm
Louis at Omega is a fantastic guy. I mean it, Grade A, super number one. He put up with all my newbie questions with 100% class and patience. He was anything but arrogant or pretentious (so rare in the world of audio). On top of that he makes some awesome speakers. At 93db and with a single 4.5" full range driver these speakers are a fantastic match for my Scott. When I first turned them on it was love. Then I bought some nice speaker cables from Louis and it was even more love. Then I got the Skylan stands and it was insane love. Then I filled the stands with sand and it was over the top out of control love (I was skeptical this would have any effect, but it was huge).
Any way, that and a Rotel CD player and a Music Hall MMF turntable are all I have here in the living rom, but it keeps me happy. Well, in a month or two I should be set up with a modded Squeeze Box 3 and one of my Macs as a music server. I think it will be kind of neat to have a 45 year old amp hooked up to a wireless computer based music network. |
Well I did it and despite warnings of doom, the results were fantastic. I had my Scott 222 worked on by Ryan at http://www.hotglassaudio.com/. Like Craig at Nosvalves, Ryan uses the right kind of replacement parts and his whole approach is to get the amp back to its original design specs. From what I could tell, this guy knows just about everything there is to know about old tube audio. Highly recommended.
Thanks to Ryan I now know that I have a somewhat rare 222 (just 222, not an A, B, C...). He said the 222 is biased very close to class A and is one of the best sounding Scotts. He replaced all the caps and other parts. Turned out someone replaced the power transformer and tried to disguise it as being the original part. Ryan said the replacement wasn't outputting enough voltage so he set me up with a new power transformer that he likes to use. All that and a few new tubes is all that was needed.
So, how does it sound? Fantastic and very much improved. I cannot do the whole audiophile sound description thing (liquid midrange with lushness in the upper...), but in a nutshell it sounds cleaner, brighter and crisper yet lost none of the warmth that I liked so much about this amp. Is the Scott the best amp of all time? Of course not, but even though the price of a used Scott is going up a bit you could buy one, have it restored by someone who knows their stuff, and you will end up with a Jolida or Prima Luna beater at half the price. |
