I just upgraded for one hour yesterday after the purchase of one of the best tube amploifier in the world...
I tought my Sansui alpha can be easily upgraded being a mere S. S. amplifier...
The new purchase is in the refund mail after one hour ...😊
i will not name it, my goal here is not bashing a good company and a good product...
But audio is about ACOUSTIC first, after it is about SYNERGY between components...
I bought the two Sansui i owned because Sansui claimed to have reproduced the exact sound of the best tube amplifier they ever designed , i even see the video where they present the comparison between the two, a top tube amplifier one even today, compared to a top amplifier of their AU series, it was this that convince me to buy a Sansui S. S. 12 years ago , and Sansui import and export this knowledge in the AU series and in their alpha series...
I bought the AU 7700 and the more refined Sansui alpha 607i , which is so good that it is impossible to upgrade under a very high cost ...I learned that yesterday... It cost me the postal fees ( 150 bucks) to learn that...
I know now that upgrading my vintage AKG K340 and My Sansui alpha is impossible save to invest a huge sum of money... And even if i do so there exist no other headphone in the market designed as the K 340 with his specific soundfield holographical and out of the head ...
It is a match in heaven with the Sansui , speaker like and not headphone like sound at all...But it is impossible to drive the K340 OPTIMALLY with most headphone amplifier... Audible listening level dont means that it work...
S. S. amplification is a mature technology, some company know how to design good one in the past and today...
My Sansui alpha sound as detailed and as fluid as the tube amplifier i bought and sound better on any count anyway in the coupling with the k340... There is not even a comparison save on the noise floor level ...The sansui need to be driven out of the electrical house grid with battery to shine quieter... With another headphone pairing it will be another story ... Synergy matter more than price tag ...
I owned 2 tube amplifiers and i prefer by far my Sansui alpha sound... No comparison... mut i buy a tube amplifier costing 10,000 bucks to beat it ?
I will pass... I am too afraid to buy any future so called upgrade... I am already in high end audiophile experience now i know exactly why... 😊
The problem is not tube or S. S. ; it is synergy supposing you had bought a good tube amp or S. S. amp to begin with ..
When you find an integrated that actually sounds like tubes, let me know! I think everyone (almost) wants one. Ever notice that SS manufacturers and merchants often tell us their device 'sounds like tubes' but no tube manufacturer sez their device sounds like SS. :-)
Call Van Alstine and you will likely get what you need. I think the Set 120 is what you need but the owner, Frank, will be able to be more specific once you speak with him:
One of the best designer of tube transformer in the world till today is Hashimoto which is a company which was created by Sansui and which is Sansui legacy in tubes amplifier...
I had a great opportunity to personally get know of an ex-Sansui manager Mr. Ichirou Ohshima who was responsible for all ultra-high-end Sansui amps from the mid 1980’s to 1999. During this period, he managed the Sansui high-end amp department for all high-end models, such as the B-2301, the C-2301, the AU-X111 MOS Vintage, the AU-X1111 MOS Vintage, the AU-Alpha Series, the Vintage Series, the MOS Series, the Limited Series, until the reproduction of the integrated vacuum tube amp AU-111 in 1999.
The vacuum tube integrated amplifier, Sansui AU-111 has the significant meaning for Sansui as well as Mr. Ohshima. The AU-111 established the ground for the future Sansui sound, and then a young engineer, Mr. Ohshima wished to create amplifiers which could sound as good as the combination of the AU-111 and JBL speakers.
I guess that one of the reason all S.S. amplifier sound as "tube amplifier" is because they inherited from the first Sansui tube amplification design and especially from their recognized world wide expertise in transformer design... hashimoto is born from Sansui , it is Sansui under another name...
Then it is a safe bet to say the Sansui amplifier S.S. design at his peak is very well known for his perfect balance of S. S. qualities and tube like sound ...
Buy a vintage Sansui and judge as i did by yourself...
I will never part from my Sansui alpha and he win easily the contest compared to the 2 tube amplifiers i listened to by far...
Not quite your question, but I recently acquired the Heaven 11 Billie MKII integrated, which is a tube preamp combined with class D amp. I've been tube rolling the last few weeks, switching preamp tubes makes quite a change. Just throwing out the tube-preamp with ss amp combo.
Sansui established this long time ago officially ending successfully with their project to create a S.S. design that will sound exactly as their top amplifier AU111...
Then from this came half of your sentence : some tube designer effectively created S.S. design sounding exactly as tube design... ... Effectively the tube and transformer designer Sansui going S.S. design create two amplifiers sounding exactly the same, one was tube and the other S.S. ...
The other half of your sentence about the fact that no manufacturer never said that their tubes amplifier sound like S.S. design is not exact... David Berning said so and he is one of the best tube designer in the world...he claim that his tube design sound fluid as tubes and detailed and dynamic as S.S. design...
Some tube manufacturer claimed exactly that as Berning did because S. S. design has also his qualities , faster dynamic, more details, more power etc
Then your sentence is not a very deep truth but a common place joke born from design prejudices...
The reality is any design is a trade-off master piece or not , being tubes or S. S. ; but some company succeed better than others, being S. S. or tubes...
😊
Ever notice that SS manufacturers and merchants often tell us their device ’sounds like tubes’ but no tube manufacturer sez their device sounds like SS. :-)
Probably one of the best solution could be a tube pre-amp as the Berning microzotl and a power amplifier of S.S. design which must be tube-like for this optimal pairing as any Sansui of the Au series are... ...
If i could i would have done it...But my Sansui alpha is an integrated with no separate pre-amp and amp function ... Costlier Sansui alpha are designed to be so...The Au 7700 too...
I just bought an Integrated Amp for my second system. No it doesn't sound like a tube amp , but it is detailed , has a great midrange , excellent low frequency control .... it has it all . Except the tube sound you are looking for.
As mentioned previously I have a pair of Mid Mono. It wasn't until I swapped my CJ pre for the incredible sounding Zesto Leto that I fully realized how good they are for $2000.
Maybe the Anthem integrated, Great amp. $4k plus. Still not going to have the tone and meat on the bones you seek. Great sounding amp though.
Honestly , a really good piece of gear won't always allow you to tell what the topology is. That Zesto is a good example. It just sounded so effortless and beautiful. It committed zero sins . It was a transformative experience owning a preamp of that caliber .
Never tried the QS preamp, my last preamp was a CJ Classic 2SE which was an excellent sounding preamp. Before that a McCormack RLD 1 , a McIntosh C15 before that. Looking back after using that Zesto for about 10 months they were all slight improvements over each prior but nothing like the Zesto. In comparing the CJ to the Zesto it was not even close. It was as if all previous preamps were a bottleneck.
After fifty years of pursuing the high end… the first forty with solid state amps.. I will not go back to solid state. I found that tube amps can be incredibly reliable and more importantly musical.
When I was working I put about 600 hours a year on my system. That would require retubing about every five years.
I now listen a lot more and have replaced four tubes in the last three years, one DOA and three at normal maintenance time.
This is not even in the ball Park to best of Anything ,but maybe on a budget. In its day 30 years ago I agree was very good ,but cannot match todays far superior capacitors , volume attenuators resistors by todays standards vs say a pass labs ,Ayre, Luxman it cannot compete on any level.
if you like old gear fine , just look at the volume pot ,a scratch pot alps type volume
which is a noise maker totally robs low level detail and resolution .having owned a Audio store for a decade , and knowing parts quality very well and modding over 20 years some companies still use these $20 pieces of rubbish , a resistor stepped attenuator , or relay is far lower noise and is not a liability , just for starters ,before buying anything if you see a integrated amp,or preamp look for a round silver pot
prima luna has a $5k preamp built well except went cheap at the output ,motorized Alps or Bourne volume pot ,inside2 plastic wipers with a metalized spray coating just to save a few bucks not very sound.
I get that. I remember hearing great Sansui equipment when I was in college in the 70’s before I discovered / could afford high end equipment. Then over the ensuing fifty years equipment has become better and better. But it is hard to argue because in 1973 I was just too stoned to be sure if it was the equipment or my state of mind.
You seem very happy with your Quicksilver electronics and are unlikely to improve upon them with solid state at your price point. If I were you I’d focus on getting a good streamer rather than that outdated Mac Mini that’s doing you no favors whatsoever.
In answer to the OP's question, does anyone in this forum think that a hybrid integrated amp - like the McIntosh, Prima Luna or Pathos hybrids - addresses this issue?
Yeah, Im not going anywhere. Im sticking w/QS Monos and pre.
Its just I hear all these people saying SS is as good as Tube....And I don't believe it. So I pose the question for a SS to compete w/ my $2,600 of QS...and I still don't see it, even paying the $20,000, $30,000, or more, for an SS set that can compete.
Is a Pass XA-25 affordable? I use one alternated (mood swings) with a tube amp. Also, Sansui amps were at best mediocre back in the day, and compared to even the least expensive integrated these days a comparison is laughable.
Look into a hybrid integrated amp. The cayin h80a is class A, dual mono and has 2 pre amp tubes. Very well built, sounds great and could be had in the 2k range used. Tube rolling is east because you only have the 2 pre amp tubes to roll and you can experiment all you want.
This isn't exactly on topic but... Recently heard Anthem gear with and without room correction turned on. The sound was pretty darn good.
I've been suffering from a bit of tube replacement anxiety, and thus weighing my options. My amp uses kt120's and they're as rare as hens teeth at the moment. So, yeah I've auditioned some SS gear but, nothing is really the same as tubes
Your claim express a generalization and prejudice not clear thinking...
First :
All productions in amplifier from Sansui extend 67 years with very different period of production...Only a false reasonning will conflate all these years of production as the same mediocre quality...
Second : All there is to do in an amplifier is not about materials but also design and the design GOAL ...The question of the OP was about the possible existence at affordable price of an S.S. sounding as tube... Sansui was one of the few companies which tried to emulate tube amplification with S.S. design and this was done OFFICIALLY and succeeded in a public contest for all ears to listen with their top tube tube amplifier beside their S.S. model IN PUBLIC ... Is this question of the OP a true sincere question or just a trolling line ? I dont know but i answered to it specifically ...
Third : i just tried to upgrade my AKG K340 headphone by replacing my Sansui alpha by one of the most acclaimed amplifier in the last decade in the world, no negative reviews for this tube amplifier ... It takes few minutes of listenings to keep the Sansui with his headphone out over a dedicated amplification one of the most acclaimed one ...
There is not even a contest possible on any acoustic factor, not ONE...Dynamic. transients, timbre, holography , soundstage , out of the head projection impression or reproduction of recording acoustic etc
Four :
Why ?
Because ignorant with prejudices in audio , fetichists of their contemporary brand ignore SYNERGYthey ignore that synergy matter, even over the exact decade date of the design production they ignore not only Vintage past flagships which for the best of them are not far off the most advanced one of today, and if we take into account synergy may rival them and even beat them completely as in my experience comparing tube of today with S.S. design of the past 24 hours ago ...
Instead of posting 3 lines prejudicial posts inform yourself...😁
The best headphone i ever tried compete with the highest top headphone of today and was designed 45 years ago... I will not explain why here...
I will not speak about sound quality/ price ratio because it has nothing to do with the question : is some TOP Sansui good amplification ?
In japan these Sansui alpha amplifier are described are TOP amplification and sold at very high price in the used market... They are a steal for those who are not brainwashed consumers of audio reviews where they sell anything new as the best ever especially if it cost 20,000 bucks... This top Sansui can be bought few thousands... i bought mine a more affordable one with the same basic design 300 bucks... I smile when you sleep paying big money for your fetish of today ... And i dont need a tube amplification ... My Sansui sound more tube like with details and fluidity than anything i heard including the last tube amp i bought yesterday and return in the same day ...SYNERGY MATTER... It is second most important factor in audio AFTER ACOUSTIC... Not price tag nor audio reviews articles...
Is a Pass XA-25 affordable? I use one alternated (mood swings) with a tube amp. Also, Sansui amps were at best mediocre back in the day, and compared to even the least expensive integrated these days a comparison is laughable.
What about the Kinki Studio Choco integrated? Haven’t yet heard it myself, but it’s often reviewed to have a SET amp richness and nuance while still maintaining authority and clarity. Extremely well built for the price - great QC:
I have Quicksilver Mid Monos and Love them. Can't see ever selling them. I use a Conrad Johnson LS17 Preamp with them. I also use a Forte Class A SS amp ( Nelson Pass Design) in a second system and although it doesn't sound like tubes, I could easily live with it. Bought it for a song.
Not looking to hijack this thread but is there any preamp worth considering as an upgrade to my CJ LS17 that mates well with the Mid Monos. Just Asking
When you look at my virtual system, what can I do, short of buying a tube power amplifier, to get more of a tube like musical experience? My budget for such a change is $xxxx.
Also, rather than “as good as tubes”, maybe you could let us know what specific audio characteristics would constitute “as good as tubes”. I mention all of this because there are probably many aspects of your system that could be upgraded to move you closer to your goal. My digital was greatly improved with changes in streamer and DAC. I am a believer in hybrid systems and for me it is a hybrid integrated amplifier.
The McIntosh MA-252 Hybrid Integrated Amp. For $4500 It has a classic 12AX7/12AT7 based tube preamp with a very decent phono stage and a 100W/Ch 8 Ohm / 160W/Ch 4 Ohm Class AB amp. It is built like a tank and looks very much the classic McIntosh piece it is. If that's not enough power, the MA-352 doubles the output to 200/320 W/Ch, and the MA-12000 takes it up to 320 W/Ch.
I could wax rhapsodic about ancient and essentially unavailable audio components (An Audio Research SP3-A1 or APT Holman preamp and the Nelson Pass designed 100W/Ch Adcom 5500 MOSFET pairing comes to mind - I own the APT/Adcom pair), and beyond the SQ of the MA-252, which is very much in line with your ask, there's a lot of peace of mind that comes from a new amp from a known manufacturer that will stand behind their product for decades.
Also, rather than “as good as tubes”, maybe you could let us know what specific audio characteristics would constitute “as good as tubes”.
@vonhelmholtzAs the OP mentioned he has no intention of replacing his prized tube electronics. This is more of a rhetorical question to make us all spin our wheels for no reason whatsoever. He just wants to stroke his own ego and make the point that his QS electronics offer very good value for the price and likely can’t be beat by SS at a similar price. That’s it. This is a fool’s errand prompted by a guy who’s admittedly not looking for a real answer and just looking for an ego rush, so don’t waste your time any further because it’s not worth it. What he should be focusing on rather than wasting our time here is replacing his ancient Mac Mini with a decent streamer from this decade.
Thanks for taking the time to explain. My fault in that I should have read a bit more carefully.
Interesting that you mention his Mac mini. When Op states that he use to be 100% vinyl, but is now fully digital, but likely relies on a computer for streaming.. something is wrong with my understanding of the situation. This motivated me to make my last post.
Opposing all S.S. design to all tubes design or vice versa is ignorance of the two most important factors in audio which are not analog versus digital , but ACCOUSTIC/psycho-acoustic first and last components synergy...
The rest is prejudices....And some like to stir the prejudices pot...
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