Zu Soul Superfly


I just ordered a pair of the new Zu speakers on a whim. I was going to wait for information, but the fact that they threw in the free superfly upgrades to the first 30 people got me.

From a similar thread it sounds like some of you guys have heard the speaker despite information only being released today. I'm wondering what you can share about it?

Also, I am really hoping it works with a Firstwatt F1 amplifier. Can anyone comment as to that? I know the Druid's and Essences worked OK.
gopher

Showing 11 responses by mahughes

The missing bit from my previous posts was that I don't think the positioning is an issue for the bass. Prior to this week it was just fabulous. There was a lack of upper mids and that was it.

Mike
The missing bit from my previous posts was that I don't think the positioning is an issue for the bass. Prior to this week it was just fabulous. There was a lack of upper mids and that was it.

Mike
Thanks Phil,

I'm using cd so fewer issues there but you are right re: temperatures. Mine shipped Utah to UK in January and they were cold. From cold they did the Druid thing of giving you the sense of pushing air on horns, and drums were on their way to Definition levels but it took about a week before I began to think "Wow!".

Decorators went Wednesday so we've been on repeat since then and I've had the heating at ambient leveles all day this weekend. I reckon that since mid-January I've put 200 hours on during the day when I've been at work and maybe another 40 or 50 on top. It was going so well but this us a horrid shock. Like having a large transistor radio. There is bass there but even on say Night Nurse by Gregory Isaacs it is taut and recessed rather than taut, deep and powerful. I'm giving it until midweek before I panic.

Incidentally, to save me reading 11 pages of this (which I have done previously thanks) how do you get the gap to just above the width of a cd? I have no spike thread at that point. Mine are set by my dealer at just over the depth of two as there is then thread. Before anyone suggests this has an impact on bass and could explain what's happened I should say I've had four weeks of increasingly heavenly bass so it seems unlikely. It may be contributing to my lack of upper mids but the detriment to bass seemed minimal. Until Tuesday it was the best bass I've ever had.

Mike
Can slide two CDs under the speakers. Definitely not too low. As stated previously, too high if anything. I thought Phil Cobra had something to say about this. Also, as said previously, I had the bass and then it went. Nothing changed beyond temperature.
Hi Phil,

Apologies for the delayed response and thank you for your continued interest. I too have been away from here but for slightly different reasons. Had eye surgery on 9th of March and have had to let them settle at their own pace post-op. This week I am attempting computers for the first time in a month having mastered a certain amount of time on my iphone; a certain amount of reading and a certain amount of TV before the eyes protest. So, doing this on a PC with the VDU specs on. Zooming up a bit in Firefox but eyes still not 100% happy so bear with me on spelling and length etc. but this is a test for my eyes as well as my posting ability. Anyway......

Despite the reintroduction of normal UK Winter/Spring temperatures the Superflys have shown little inclination to bass or mids since the temperature drop thanks to the decorators. As they were burning in nicely (and I trust my decorator as both a friend and fellow audiophile/music fan) before the temperature drop, I continue to assume no technical problem with the speakers themselves. The bass WAS there. It was not spectacular but the original gap we started with was around the depth of 2 CD jewel cases and may have been responsible for that. On start up they were lacking some upper mids in the opinion of Avonessence and I could hear this after a while but the high frequencies were all there and clearly coming on song. What was also there from the start was a lack of the usual Zu mids to some degree but very much (although not entirely) initially compensated by some of the best dynamics I have ever heard. Both my dealer and I may have missed the bass and mids issue to begin with as initial setup was very basic and there was perhaps too much standing and not enough sitting at the listening position.

I had noticed some loss of output from the right channel before the decoration (which to remind other readers was in the rest of the house but not the listening room). I haven't measured it but my room is about 16' by 12.5' and fully carpeted. The carpet is neither expensive, new or lush. There is a plasma and fireplace between the speakers and a picture behind glass on the opposite wall. The right speakers is marginally further away from a sidewall than the left as the left has CD shelves on it. The speakers fire down the room toward a 2 seater sofa but there is also a sofa on the right wall and between this and the right Superfly is my stack of Hutter Racktime with all my Naim boxes on it. These go 7 shelves high. When I had Epos ES11s in place any attenuation of output because of either the sofa or the rack was not noticeable at all, especially with toe in. The Superflys wider dispersion has thrown the issue into stark relief though even with a toe in that allows me to see a sliver of the inside wall of the speakers.

Taking a methodical approach I first attempted to lower all 8 spikes to a depth of one CD jewel case. To my surprise I noted that the spikes provided by Zu do not actually allow for this in the sense that there's then no thread for the nut to be tightened on. I have yet to query this with them as I suspect they have bigger fish to fry at present.

A quick call from Avonessence provided a different set of spikes that did allow for this and the speakers have both been set at a height that allows you to slide a CD under, albeit that it's a tight fit.

An initial increase in bass occurred. On extended listening I wouldn't describe this as spectacular but it is certainly there and it is frequently enough. What I think is really missing here is the mids and, with that, much of the remaining bass.

Power is via a Musicline Powerigel with one Naim Powerline being used on the power amp after much experimentation back in the Epos era.

Both Avonessence and I are aware that Druids et al were happier with the removal of Naim power cables (and often power supplies) so the Powerline was removed. This produced a clear improvement in coherence (Mrs. H. making smiley faces at this point and indicating that she's finally convinced and they can stay) but at the expense of a much more compressed sound and the loss to my ears of the best dynamics I've ever had in my room.

Next task is to split the Hutter. A second base is on order via my dealer. That should do several things.

1) Balance up the speaker outputs and enable me to reset the pre-amp balance (a Naim 202) to centre again.

2) Reintroduce some dynamics lost when the Naim Powerline was removed. There must be some loss of dynamics when one speaker is not dispersing sound down the room as the other one is allowed to.

3) Assess the extent to which the sofa down the long wall may also be having any effect. However, it's not like there is anywhere else practical for this sofa to go!

There may also be some repositioning of speakers but my inclination at the moment is to leave them be and see how we do once these other variables have been addressed.

I may take the opportunity to rebuild the system with just the bare CD player, pre and power and then compare what happens as we add power supplies. Zu speakers work wonderfully with Naim gear (who was it who posted about the Superfly and their Supernait singing?) but drastically reduce the impact of separate power supplies as used by Naim. That isn't to say that there's no need for them but more that there's less sense of a true box upgrade and more of a sense of each box being a slight tweak. Different rather than better.

I am working on the basis that the best sound I have heard in recent years was Druids on the end of (not) my (actual) CD, pre and power with one Naim Powerline at my dealers. If I can get that then I am happy.

I'm hopeful that addressing practical issues methodically will get me there in the end (he says optimistically!!!). However, it may that although I have kept the UK side of Zu informed on this, I approach Sean et al for further advice.

That said, any advice you kind people can offer here will be appreciated.

Thanks,

Mike

PS: If Avonessence et al now come on here and mention valves you need to know that my fingers are in my ears (and no, that doesn't explain the lack of mids :))
Signs of life.

Hmm, things getting very interesting with my hitherto unimpressive Superflys.

My dealer split my Hutter Racktime but, in the process of reconnecting my system, we managed to achieve total silence! Long story short - the problem was a Burndy cable connecting my Naim CDX2 to its XPS2 power supply. Cable heading for repair whilst CD player now powered up without it.

Now, I've already experienced the phenomena whereby Zu speakers like, nay love, less Naim boxes so I wasn't too unhappy with trying this. Indeed, before things went silent my dealer was intending to try reducing my 7 boxes to 3 to see what happens. However, I also believe in one thing at a time. So, given that the Hutter has just been split and the CD player has lost a power supply, I'm happy to sit tight for a few days and feel my way toward assessing the differences.

First thoughts?

1) The Hutter was definitely impacting on the output of the right speaker in terms of bass, mids, dynamics and coherence.

2) I'm not sure the output is completely balanced as the sofa on the long wall may still be impacting but sound from TV and CD has immediately improved in terms of dynamics and detail. Bass has also improved and imaging is much more central. Too early to say if the improvement is enough but it is obvious.

3) Some of the above may also be the loss of a CD player power supply. It's remarkable how dynamics and detail have improved despite the loss of a box that would normally improve both. Gonna live with it for a week or so and then remove the power supplies from the pre and see what that brings.

Listened to more in the past 24 hours than the past 2 weeks, which rather speaks for itself. Will report back as we progress further.
And then the Hi-Cap came off the pre (202) and lo, mid-band warmth of the kind that IME only Zu do suddenly starts to appear.

In the process I've lost a little air and detail around the instruments but gained some slam and finally get to hear that characteristic Zu sound coming from my Superfly. Another way of describing this is to say that we've gone from hi-fi to music. Going to live with this for a week and then see what happens when I pull out the Musicline Powerigel and put stock cables back in.

So, downgrading seems to be the way to go! :)
So, been a while and I’ve just done a fairly radical update to my system. Have binned my Naim CDX2 source after 18 years and the realisation that it’s now too harsh for my ageing tinnitus ridden ears allied to a plain simple lack of space for any more CDs. System is now Innuos Zenith 3 into Chord Hugo TT2 DAC going into a Naim 202/200 HCDR and NAPSC and all into the rather wonderful Zu Soul Superfly. 

Very long story cut short: The source is wonderful. The speakers are wonderful. The amplification is probably a level below what I need but holds its own reasonably well. However, at slightly higher volumes where the Superfly comes to life there is a lack of consistency and mid warmth. Rock in particular sounds under-powered. 
I am aware of an impedance mismatch between the speakers and the amp. It’s not the end of the world. I don’t tend to drive things loudly. Equally they have previously soared for years.  
Mrs. H. has ruled out valve amps for a variety of complex and not unreasonable reasons so I have several thoughts on which I’d like a view.

1 - loading resistors from Zu. I’ve yet to speak to Naim or Zu about this but people on other forums tend to the view that it’s a cheap thing to try but likely won’t make any difference. Your thoughts would be welcome. 
2 - if loading resistors then which ones? It’s been suggested 10ohm would be the contender but I’m unclear (and lack the technical knowledge) as to why. Again, thoughts?

3 - a replacement solid state amp which would work better with the Superfly. I’m well aware it was designed for valves but equally aware that several users found solid state amplification which sounded great. It’s been a few years since I’ve been on this thread but it seemed the obvious place to start. Who here continues to use their Superfly with solid state and what options are on the table. My funds will initially be limited to £2k but could stretch to £4k as the year progresses. 
If it helps then the Innuos source is pretty neutral and relaxed whilst the DAC is phenomenally detailed but also incredibly relaxed. I’d like to keep the detail but add some mid range. 
Thanks in advance. 
@cat_doorman it’s an option mooted on a couple of other forums and indeed it’s suggested as one of the original design objectives by Rob Watts. However, I asked Chord directly and they’ve changed their minds as it’s not what the output stage was designed for. 
I sort of new Pass and First Watt were options. Must admit I’d not considered Sugden so that is something to look at.
I wonder what happened to the other posters who said they knew people had run SS with Superfly?
Interesting development (well, I’ve done further reading). 
Lavardin solid state integrated looks a feasible option. 
I’m getting the impression that 8ohm amps are fine with the Superfly and, whilst most prefer valves, there is a small subset of solid state that work really well. This looks like it could be a good match.