So, a month is too short a time, and a long term loan is graft? Just say you dislike reviewers instead of making excuses. And should we really expect reviewers to spend tens of thousands of their own dollars to build a reference system, and then change it every few years to keep up to date? Can only wealthy folks be reviewers? Seriously? |
I am always amazed by the comments here alluding to some ulterior motive by the mainstream audio press to push the product of the day. I have yet to read of a true, factual example of this actually happening by one of the writers for TAS or Stereophile. You may not agree with their opinions or methodology, but this is entertainment, not a scientific journal. Those two magazines are no different than Car and Driver, or Cycle World or any other enthusiast magazine I subscribe to. I happen to like the style of writing of some of the writers, even if they were writing off topic. But to suggest fraud or collusion, as some here have, is simply off base unless you have specific factual support for such claims against a specific writer. Otherwise its just more internet crap to keep getting repeated on sites like this.
And for those who think a month with a piece of equipment is not enough, how long do you think a full time reviewer should spend. Is 40 hours a week for 4 weeks not enough. And if they get paid by the review, are they only allowed to review 12 pieces of equipment a year. If that's so, should they make $5000 per review so they can make a decent living. Get real. No one here listens 160 hours a month, yet many have very strongly held opinions on gear.
And while knowing what the reviewers equipment is might be helpful if he has something the same as yours, it is useless otherwise. There is simply too many different options for any of us to be familiar with how each sounds.
And as for glowing reviews, that issue has come up in my other enthusiast magazines, and the plain fact is that there is very little bad equipment being built these days, especially in the high end range these magazines concentrate on. Except for some garage builder putting out a prototype, most gear being reviewed is well built. Do you want the reviewer to look for crap just so he can say something stinks. Why waste his time reviewing crap when there is so much more interesting stuff to review that is much more enjoyable.
I will say that I gloss over anything to do with digital sound. I just dont care, and I find it boring to read about. that may be why subscriptions are down. In the old days, there were real differences between components, and new ideas being tried. Today, everything has improved to the point that for electronics especially, there is little difference beyond power ratings, at least as compared to cartridges or speakers.
So, unless you have specific actual knowledge of some improper behaviour by a specific reviewer or magazine, and are willing to put it in writing here, give it up and just enjoy the entertainment. |
Naive is believing the crap you read on the Internet and taking it as truth without one single verifiable fact being offered as evidence. And be willing to defame others without a thought to the consequences. I guess I can make whatever comments I like about anyone's professional competence. |
Frog
Didn't see a single verifiable fact in your post. Just typical innuendo and rumor. Clearly a reasonable basis for defamation. |
Lewm,
I agree, but I'm just tired of people defaming others on the Internet under cover of anonymity with no actual basis other than their own delusion that there is some great conspiracy to screw everyone,whether its reviewers, politicians, lawyers, corporations or what have you. Some just try and see the bad in everything and everyone, except themselves of course. |
Rrog,
Who called you a liar. I cant, because you dont state any verifiable facts to which the truth or falsity can be determined. Just recirculate the same rumor and innuendo.
By the way, no one deserves to be defamed, which by its very definition means to be lied about. If they are corrupt, then its not a lie. But you seem willing to defame anyone, without any factual basis. I have seen too many good people harmed by such acts from fools.
Why is so easy to believe bad things about people but not good things. Or even that they are neutral, neither good nor bad. We cant get concensus here on any subject, with all our learned members, why would you expect a reviewer, given their necessary time restraints, to do much better? This isnt the state of the union they are reporting on, or the master plan to save the world. Its just an opinion by a writer on a piece of equipment they had in their system for a period of time. Would you rather they went back to Stereo Review reporting and just regurgitated the spec sheet and say is sounds as it should? There is a reason Stereo Review no longer exists. If I want to read that kind of stuff, I will order brochures.
So any, my point is that I dont appreciate attacks on integrity based on rumor and innuendo and even now, I have not seen a single, verifiable fact against any writer for Stereophile or Absolute Sound when I have asked many times. And again, I dont read half the mag, because I am not interested in digital equipment but I do enjoy the writing of Art and Mikey, even if I dont agree with them. |
Those of you who dislike reviewers, and therfore, I assume reviews, how do you find out about a product that you can't audition locally. There is literally next to nothing in my system that I could go out and listen to at a bricks and mortar establishment within reasonalbe driving distance, more so because most of my stuff is used and somewhat vintage. So, if something piques my interest, I search on line for information about that item. I end up finding various reviews, both professional and on sites such as this. I then find that the item I am interested in has universal praise, and no negative comments. It suits my needs and wants on paper, and the price is right. So I buy it, and low and behold, I like it, just like the reviewers said I would. Now, do I like it because someone said I should, or do I like it because it is a good product that sounds good and the reviewers recognized that fact.
Now, there may be some of you who are able to listen to every single item ever sold, for an extended period of time, in your own system and home, and only substituting that one item during that period, and come up with your own conclusions without the benefit of any external input. Good for you. I doubt the rest of us have the time, money, opportunity or interest to do the same thing. So, we see something in an ad or report, that looks interesting and the design philosophy seems to make sense and comport with what we think is good design. We then use whatever resources we have, including professional reviews, to narrow our focus, and to eliminate those items not worthy of consideration, and then spend our money. I dont expect the reviewer, professional or otherwise, to put in months of listening and testing on every piece of equipment that comes through his/her door. I expect the reviewer to state the obvious, good or bad, and tell me as entertainingly as possible, how the piece of equipment makes him feel.
Look, there is very little junk out there these days from reputable manufacturers. Most of the differences are ones of flavor, not competence, especially at the levels worth discussing on these sites. If you can listen to everything and make up your own mind, good for you. But I need the assistance of others to narrow my focus. I can always sell the item if my experience does not match theirs. |
Swamp, thanks. Sometimes a subject just gets to me.
Dude here. Too bad Raul has decided to hijack this thread. Hard to read through. |
Well, Wolf, he has at least ruined this thread.
Kiddman, your comment goes back to my last comment that it is nearly impossible to listen to any equipment these days before buying, and comparing is even more unlikely. so, if you have the liquid cash flow to buy and try, and then sell what you dont like, I suppose you dont need anyone elses input. But I would at least like to narrow my choices before I pays my moneys.
So, I do my internet search, and if I find universal praise or condemnation for a product that caught my interest, I can either add or delete that product from my short list. I also find that it takes time to learn about a component, so its not a matter of trying for a week and sending it back. changing out components in my set up is not a 5 minute job, except for maybe the speakers. It would be nice if I could just go to my local stereo emporium, like I used to do, and sit for an afternoon listening to my two or three finalists. but those days are over for anyone who lives outside a major metropolitan area.
So for me, reviews, both professional and on forums, have use. |
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This thread started as a question about the use of reviewers opinions in helping to put together a system. Raul came on to state that reviewers were disengenuous at best for not pointing out that using a tube amp with most speakers will cause a varying frequency response not at all like the original recording, and therefore, because they didnt make that statement, their opinions are worthless. Now, that could have been said in one post, instead of 30 length posts denigrating anyone that disagrees. But beyond his statement on tube amps distorting sound and reviewers not saying so, what has he added to the discussion on the use of reviews to assemble a system, whether its Raul's review of a component or some professional reviewer's review. Maybe its just me, but reading Raul's posts make my head hurt. |
Raul,
I have stopped. Head feels better already |
In this month's Absolute Sound, Robert Harley responds to a letter writer with an explanation that sums up the review process very well. Anyone interested should give it a read, but essentially, a review is one persons opinion of a product heard at a certain time in a certain place with certain associated equipment and should only be used as a starting place, if at all, to narrow candidates for further investigation. He went on to say that he felt that the hi end audio press puts too much emphasis on reviews of equipment and that the only advantage to a professional review is perhaps the ability to form proper sentences, more exposure to different equipment, and the time to spend with a particular unit.
Anyone can do it, given enough dedication, but thats true of anything. I could probably pole vault if I tried hard and long enough. But being good at anything takes more than effort, it takes talent, whether its being a good writer, or a good listener. |
Wolf,
I guess so we could focus on the issue raised. Otherwise, why not just have one big board with no topics and just random thoughts. Hmm, might work.
I really did want to find out other thoughts on the use of reviews, especially those who dont have the opportunity to audition much, and either have to buy and sell to hear a product, or rely on the internet for such sage advice as we receive from Raul and others. |
Lewn,
Interestingly, I received both TAS and Stereophile this week and was able to go through both in a few hours. Ususally it takes me a few days to get through TAS especially. Both issues were heavy on digital and electronics, which is probably why I had little interest. Both issues did have reviews on the Ortofon Anna cartridge, and both reviews were similar in their findings.
It seems that unless there is a fair amount of analog editorial, I'm not that interested. I like reading Dudley and Fremer on whatever they write about. Dudley especially is entertaining as he writes about vintage stuff and hands on repairs and refurbishing.
Maybe next month we will have an analog issue. |
Now, when a reviewer reviews a $50,000 speaker or turntable that he really loves, and would love to own, but because he cant afford it on his meager reviewer income, does that mean he is not allowed to get an industry discount, or must he refuse such discount to avoid the impression of bias. I wish I could afford some of the stuff I see and hear, but alas, I cant. But I would only want it in the first place because I liked the product, not because I could get it cheaper. |
So, he should only buy the cheap stuff he can afford, and then review megabuck equipment through that cheap system. What difference does it make where a reviewer gets his reference system, so long as it is good enough to allow him to hear the differences in the equipment he reviews. |
