VInyljh, I presume you are a Shindo dealer.... |
Latinsamba1, tell us more why you opted for the Tron. What were the Shindo pre's lacking in your rig? |
Vinyljh, thanks for the data. I did not know that the Shindo pre referenced also uses output transformers. Very interesting. Well, that makes the logic behind Knghifi's decision even more interesting. |
There are two Dude owners in Dallas. One is Gallant_diva: http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?vaslt&1066703453&openmine&zzAgear&4&5#Agear
There is another new Dude owner in Dallas who just replaced his Lamm pre-amp with a Dude.
You could always contact them and swing by for a listen.
I too am a happy Dude owner. When researching pre-amps prior to owning the Dude, two other choices I considered were Allnic and Shindo. I did not hear either but went for the Dude on gut instinct and the rest is history. |
Rshnicle, very nice system.... |
Ahendler, kool system. I spent 11 years in MN (Maggie country) and always enjoyed hearing them. Are the antique amps able to drive them adequately? You also seem to have a tight and narrow listening space. My friends who owned them always struggled a little in setup.... |
Latin, when are you actually receiving your Tron? |
Silbelius, I share mirror sentiments about the Dude. It injects a fluidity and ease that I believe is a derivative of Paul's proprietary tube regulated power supply and essentially unlimited bandwidth. Most pre-amps I have listened to (in my system and others) compress dynamics. The music seems to collapse and become rather boxy and small sounding. This phenomenon drove me to experiment with removing the pre-amp from the chain. The best, most wide-open and live sounding piece I owned prior to the Dude was the Granite Audio 657 which was a tubed CDP with an output stage. It put most pre-amps I heard to shame in that regards with the exception of the Dude. This ferrari-like behavior does not sacrifice musicality. The Dude is also supremely musical.
If I am not mistaken, Knghifi owns a VAC pre-amp. I am interested to hear why he went with the VAC despite the Shindo "being FABULOUS in every way." I presume it was due to an impedance/system matching issue or long ICs. I know the TOTL VAC has an output transformer to deal with impedance matching. An interesting and arguable approach.
Knghifi, there are certainly no free lunches in life, but in hi end audio, you rarely get what you pay for IMO. Why do you think Audiogon becomes an audio purgatory for many folks with endless disappointment and buying and selling, buying and selling.... |
Vinyljh, I agree. I myself have participated in that same presumptuous and fickle behavior. An older audiophile friend of mine said, in regards to speakers, to live with them for at least a year before moving on.
Along those same lines, you had referenced the Shindo philosophy of system matching and how it was advantageous to try and create an all-Shindo system along with high efficiency speakers. I think that approach does have a lot of merit and could save people a lot of pain and missteps. |
Latinsamba, there is a lot of good equipment out there, and the Tron pre-amp may be a good piece, but unfortunately, Vinyl caught you with your pants down. You heard two "systems" and liked one better than the other. You cannot surmise much from that experience until you plug different pre-amps into your own rig. Of course, I am guilty of hypocrisy here. I have participated in multiple drive-by shootings on Audiogon.
Speaking of your rig, I was intrigued by your single driver speaker with a driver fabricated out of hemp....that made me chuckle. Dude....
Vinyl, I agree with your observations on sound vs music. Endless ruminations about sound may be one manifestation of an unsatisfying and unmusical system. On the flip side, I have heard systems that were billed as "musical" only to find them unmusical in that they came off as soggy and slow hifi. These systems did not produce an effective auditory illusion.
"The Dude abides...." |
Tthean, as I said before, there are two very happy Dude owners (latest generation) in the Dallas area. No issues with fit and finish, customer service, etc. Gallant_diva is one. Ask Paul for the other. His name is Huy, but I have lost his contact data. They both have very expensive systems whatever that is worth.... |
Charles1dad, Charles has every right to air his grievances, but he is not manning up and calling TRL directly, which is beyond me. They are willing help, but he is choosing to be destructive instead. It is part of the Jerry Springer therapeutic model which always ends badly. |
Tony, does Charlie's experiences square with your own since you know the Weitzels well and have owned their products in the past?
For those of you who are confused by thread censorship, please review AG's bylaws. The previous thread referenced involved slander of two separate manufacturers, one by a third party (someone other than the owner of the problematic piece of equipment) and the other by someone who has been offered refunds and help in the past but for unknown reasons fails to engage the manufacturer for reasons which are a mystery. I myself have had struggles with other manufacturers, but publicizing has no inherent value and is self-defeating. If the manufacturer offers no help, then I can sympathize with this tactic, but that is not the case with TRL.
Charlie, take your pre-amp to another audiophiles house and see if this phenomenon is transferable. What specific trouble shooting have you done? Are you still using that vintage (circa 1940s) western electric wire? Having a third party attempt a repair may be cathartic but unlikely to produce fruit. Either way, let us know what steps you take to resolve this situation. |
Clio09, since you felt inspired to chime in, what has been your experience with TRL in the past? |
Goldeneraguy, no, just an end user who has paid full price for all the gear I own. That's a fair question.
I wouldn't necessarily say they are feuding. Charlie has voiced his frustrations in multiple threads, some even not related to TRL, and the internet medium tends to propagate feud-like conditions.
Charlie and I have spoken many times on the phone since we are both Dude owners and I previously owned his speakers, the EP 2.3s. He is obviously frustrated (I have been there with other manufacturers) and needs some resolution. The whole issue is how to get there.
The irony of his situation (IMO) is that he would be better served going with Clayton Shaw's spatial system for his EP speakers. That way, you get rid of the cheap pro (DBX) digital x-over/room correction unit which performs a redundant DA conversion and sullies the sound. The Dude (and any pre-amp for that matter) is not the optimal solution. Again, I have no vested interest in Spatial.... |
Yes Charlie, others have had problems with ground loop or buzz. 4/5 (excluding you at this point) were related to associated equipment and/or cables. You are going to look pretty stupid if after all the flamethrowing online it turns out to be something else.
Again, take the Dude to a friends rig. See if the phenomenon is transferrable. Try different cabling. Have a third party examine it. By all means. |
It is a shame it has to happen in this manner, and it actually makes you look bad Charlie. Orders are continuing to come in despite your best attempts. Please let us know what is actually wrong with your pre-amp when that is diagnosed.
At this time, TRL's current product stands for itself and the witness of its inherent value will continue to unfold regardless of bitter naysayers. It is probably one of the best pre-amps under 30K, and if you are frustrated with mediocre sound and overpriced gear, give it a whirl.... |
That's good Charlie. I hope you will finally have some resolution to this. It will put your mind at ease. Please let us know what happens.
And NO, for the last time, I am not on the payroll. I am a surgeon. I don't need to moonlight as an audio dealer/distributor. LOL. The only reason I know any details in regards to this sordid little saga is that I am friends with the Weitzels and speak with them regularly. We talk about a lot of things ranging well beyond audio. I choose to support them because I choose to support them as does Glory/Gallant/Grannyring, etc.
My wife gets angry when she sees Audiogon yellow on the computer screen and says I am being distracted far too often by audio. Time for me to sign off.
Ciao.... |
Well said Bill.
4musica44107, you beat me to it. LOL. I wish my answer was yes. I would live to hear a Shindo rig. Any owners in Charlotte NC?
Gallant, I believe Tthean is in Dallas and I told him to contact either you or Huy. Any Shindo owners in Dallas, Vinyljh? |
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