Bostonbean, but hearing is believing. |
I have consistently heard that the Silbatone Acoustic room with their electronic and Western Electric horns was far and away the best sounding room. |
Geopolitis, I certainly know that the cabling this year was Argento. If you are right, it certainly was an example of how critical cabling is. |
Maxx1973, my first opportunity to hear Tidal speakers driven by Tidal electronics will be the coming Rocky Mountain Audio Fest. I am fearful that they may be a must.
I must say that you are in for a largely daily improvement for about the next two months. |
Hi, guys! My Contriva Discera SEs arrived yesterday and now are playing. To my surprise they have high WAF. They have some breakin on them so I expect to be happy shortly, such as I was at the RMAF when I heard them on Sunday of the show.
One first impression-never have I seen speakers better packed. |
Geopolitis, the word "musical" always concerns me. In what way are the Sovereigns more musical than the Tidals? How close do you think the Sovereign preamp gets to the Tidal Preos?
Calloway, you probably heard at Axponda what I heard at the last RMAF and reacted similarly. That Sunday morning I heard what I had never heard before out of a speaker. No doubt the electronics and the turntable were contributing, but I was dumbfounded! My Contriva Diacera SEs should be here shortly. Warning: I think Tidal or Sovereign electronics may be in your future. |
Argyro, for some it means that it is not a real sounding but nevertheless enjoyable sound. I just wonder how Geopolitis meant it, as he said the Sovereigns were more musical than the Tidals. Believe me, I can more easily afford the Sovereigns, but I have heard neither. |
Kw13, there is no answer to your question. Obviously, you have to make your own decision, but hearing them is a must.
They were a major stretch financially for me, but I heard them. If you look at the workmanship, the drivers and other components and realize that they have maintained effortless and extended sound using drivers that have many excellent characteristics but a notorious "ceramic driver sound" and a cabinet that just does not vibrate, you will reassess your "unreasonable" cost concern.
Listen to them as well as the many much more expensive speakers, and you will buy them. |
Geopolitis, you seem to have extensive experience with amps and cables. Can you describe what cables you have used and found the Argento cables superior? I doubt if the Synergistic Research cables have many users in Europe, but I have been very impressed with them.
Thanks. |
Argyro, I know the Indra very well, so I very much appreciate your comparison between the Indra and Argento Flow. |
Well I have had the Tidal Contriva Disacera SEs playing for three days now. Each day has been dramatically better than that before, which is not to say that I was unimpressed the first day.
I initially place them exactly where I had the Acapellas before, but recently I toes them in further. They are 10.5' apart and I am 11' from each. Their toe in intersects just behind my head. Their top inside distance to the wall behind them is 38" and the center of the drivers is 40" from the side walls. I going to experiment with these, of course, but I wonder if any of you guys have experiences which might help me.
As perversity always rules, I got my new Bergman Sindre the same day I got the Tidals installed. I have yet to set it up, so I am limited to my two digital sources, an Exemplar/Oppo BDP-83 and the Mac/Amarra/Firewire/Weiss Minerva server.
Although I never heard the Contrivas sound this good at the shows, I did make the right decision in buying them and thank the many whose experiences reported in the various threads here for sharing their positive experiences. |
Geopolitis, yes, indeed. My life unintentionally has been complicated by getting a new turntable, the Bergman and a new cartridge, the Ortofon A90 as well as getting a new version of my linestage. This is, of course, a no no for introducing new components. But everything is sounding just outstanding. I went to the trouble to go back to everything as it was with my old speakers, except for using those speakers. The sound had that wonderful extended and sweet top end, the soundstage was real and on live recording quite involving. The bass is still not up to what my Acapellas did but I expect that will come with additional breakin. I am now running the system from 7 am to 11 pm daily.
Each day I go to listen with confidence that I will better sound than the day before. Many of my digital sources sound so different than what I heard before that they could almost be different recordings.
Life is great! |
Brdsmith, check out the Tidal electronic thread. |
Kclone, your comments about the Tidals are right on target for my experience. I had changed too many things at the same time and decided to get to the bottom of the major improvement I was hearing. My Contriva Discera SEs were placed in my room the same day I got a new version of my H-Cat preamp and a day after I got Synergistic Research Galileo Universal interconnect Cells. I showed some patience but within several days all of the new stuff was in the system and being played with the Tidals. I went through two weeks of daily improvement. Once I had some leveling off of the improvement, I decided to see what was contributing by ultimately removing everything other than the speakers and also using the old version of the preamp. Ultimately I had everything back in but on this older preamp. It sounded very good, until I put the new version in. Once it settled in, I just sat there and listened to disc after disc. There was realism that I thought was unobtainable in home audio reproduction.
Like you, I am very happy, but additional dollars into my system. Thus far, only non-audiophile friends have heard this system, but the look on their face says it all, they are dumbfounded and typically sit down to listen or ask for some specific album. On hearing it they comment that they had never really heard it before.
I have owned 27 prior speakers in a long career in audio, and I have listened to many others including the Magicos and the Marten Coltrane. I have never heard the "magic" that I am getting now. Wow! |
Karelfd, tonight my system jump another notch in sound quality. The sweetness of the top end, the decay of bass notes, the audibility of the conductor's movements, the clear audibility of the percussionist's movements before striking, etc. You would never hear it as I did unless you were the conductor or sitting front row center and somehow elevated to stage level. The mics have the best seat in the house.
It probably is not entirely the Tidal Contrivas, but they certainly are needed to present it to my ears. Wow! |
Alectiong, yes, I have been meaning to update my system pictures. I would warn you about hearing these speakers-do so only if you are ready to invest in them. It was the best audio decision I ever made. |
Life is very strange with the Tidals. They are so revealing that you notice when your amp has been on long enough, when you need to await cables that you have moved around to settle, and, of course, when everything is just right and you have no choice but to listen to album after album. To never be able to find the speaker's compromises at fault is a rare experience. |
Yes, I waited a long time, and it was worth the wait. |
Argyro, I agree with Kclone about all of us going through the wait. I should also say that these speakers are so revealing that you may have another adjustment period to come as you cull through your equipment finding the weak links.
Do you have a date certain for getting your Tidals? |
Lucky boy, small company and large demand. |
Kw13, sorry but I stick with my comments. Evidently you have not bought speakers recently. It is quite difficult to buy any decent speaker for below $30k and there are many above $100k.
Your being ticked off and $3 will buy a cup of coffee. I can understand both your reaction as well as why the price is high, but I can do nothing about either. |
Karelfd, Did your Tidals come with any feet? The former US importer insisted on optional feet, which I am not using, because StillPoints Component Stands are better. I use them on wood floors. |
Calloway, I can best you. In my over 45 years as an audiophile and trying everything from Klipshhorns, Lowthers, Infinity ServoStatics, Apogees, SoundLabs, Dayton Wrights, Avantegardes, Acapellas, JPLs, and Altecs and concluding that all were compromises, I have found the most real speaker. |
Calloway, you are about the only person who has not said something about the 18kV isolators (cracked) that I use to keep wire off the floor.
It takes a while for the speakers to break in. I now have about 400 hours of use on them. I am told that I am not there as yet. The real crying shame is that I am going to abandon them for 3.5 months going to my NM mountain retreat from Texas heat. I will be using LSA1 Statements, most of my digital electronics, and Syn. Res. cabling. |
Argyro, you would if you spent many summers in Texas summer heat and humidity and tried Grado headphones last year. All they did was to put me to sleep. |
Husk01, I am getting a very wide sweet spot, but toe in and room treatments can greatly influence this. You may be alluding to my posting on using Murata supertweeters and getting a wider sound stage. I did notice later that the top end using them was harsh and that on removing them, I could get an equally wide sound stage both with further breakin of the speakers and with less toe in.
On your further questions, I learned today that Tidal is going to set up a Tidal US and distribute them here directly. This may influence both questions. Probably, however, the demand for these speakers may still be such that a month or two may pass before you get delivery after buying them. |
Kclone, when I first heard Tidals at the '09 RMAF, they were absolutely green and were not impressive. On day 2 they were much better but still not something I would spend that much money on. But Sunday, Sunday, Sunday! Wow!
My personal experiences also largely reflect this. They grew better and better on a daily basis for at least the first two weeks. I had to play with how far they were from the speaker wall and with toe-in. Until I had they crossing just behind me, I did not have the optimal sound stage.
I am now approaching 500 hours and still hear improvements, typically in the bass.
I have yet to play much with the electronics. It now looks like I will have to await the RMAF to hear them with Tidal electronics, which I cannot afford. |
Calloway, I think that Tidal just did not anticipate it success. I had to wait nearly six months to get mine even though I was an early adopter. I expect that production could be greatly increased but what were demand to sharply decline? This is always the challenge of a small and successful company.
In MHO, there is no speaker even close to my Contriva Diacera SEs. I suspect that Tidal lesser speakers may get close, but I am very happy to have mine. I think, Linkster captured the essence of those Tidal speakers I have heard.
Calloway, I wish I could lend you mine as I am now in New Mexico and out of Texas heat, but my Tidals are not. Here I am listening to LSA1 Statements in a 10 x 13 x 8 foot room, but the skies are blue, it was 45º this morning, we are surrounded by pine trees and at 8750 feet with pure clean air. What a tradeoff. |
Calloway, be happy that you sold your other speakers. It took many months after I had the Tidals to sell my Acapella LaCompanellas.
I don't think I will be selling these speakers. Maybe those closing my estate will be. |
Kw13, I don't know about your relationship with this guy, but acoustic room treatment and to a lessor degree speaker placement is very critical. He may not like what you like. If he will allow you to remote room treatments and reposition the speakers you may find you like them even more. I am still experimenting with my Contriva diacera SEs after nearly two months with them. I assure you that they are very revealing of everything. |
Calloway, I hired three movers, but remember that I had to take them to the second floor up a stairway. We took them up in the flight cases as my storage is also on that floor. The handles at each end of the flight cases helped doing this. We laid the first case on the floor and lifted it out placing it upright so I could carefully remove the wrapping. It was laid on one side with a rug under the lower side, so I could install the StillPoints component stands that I use instead of that provided by Tidal. On a dealers Tidals, the StillPoints component stands proved better than those provided by Tidal.
While I was doing this the men took the shipping case into the storage room and brought the other case up. They then helped me stand the first up and move into an approximate placement. Then, of course, this was all repeated on the other speaker.
The flight cases are an excellent solution for shipping. |
Geopolitis, I should say that I discovered that my Syn. Res. Universal Cells were not charged. I realized that this morning and connected them. This made a very large improvement of both the sound using Amarra and Pure Music, but changed my preferences not at all. |
Karelfd, I suspect that the feet that came with mine are those you mention. The bottom of my speakers has many threaded holes for mounting these feet. Fortunately they can also be used to mount the StillPoint Component Stand. |
Murataltuev, You know there is a T1 with a subwoofer tower?
I now own a Zu Method subwoofer that I have yet to try with my Contriva Dicera SEs. I am only going to run it up to 40 Hz. In my opinion it is the fastest subwoofer or at least has that reputation. In October when I get back to my main system, I will give it a try. I must admit that in my room, I have no low bass impact but maybe I don't know what I am missing. |
Rtn1, since the US importer, Aaudioimports and Tidal have parted ways, I can find only one listing of Tidal speaker pricing, http://www.higherfi.com/spkrlist/speakerlist.htm, it shows the T-1s to cost $322,000, the tenth most expensive speaker in their listing. I found one listing of the price of the Sunrays, as $178,600, so your statement may be correct. |
Rilou, in my experience there certainly are less expensive speakers than the Contriva Diacera SEs but only the Sunrays maybe better. I have had many speakers in 45 years as an audiophile and had concluded that you needed to choose your poison. Then I heard the Contrivas after but three days of breakin. Wow! Never had a speaker achieved the totality of sound like them.
I am enjoying my music. Thank you. |
Geopolitis, I think Pure Vinyl includes Pure Music, but you might need to check how current your PM is. There have been many upgrades in the last several months. Going from 1.46 to 1.6 was a major improvement. |
Murataltuev, integrating a subwoofer has always frustrated me. I have tried probably ten different subwoofer over the years. The last was with my Beauhorn Virtuosos, that had no bass below 60 Hz. I tried massive 8 feet tall by 15 inch diameter isobaric subwoofers with 2000 watts of power. Boom, boom! Ultimately, I sold the speakers. This was followed by the futility of Avantegarde Trios.
The Tidal Contrivas have much better bass than my Acapella and go deeper. Do I think they do sub 20 Hz? No, this is what I might get out of adding the Zu Method.
Ozy, I agree. The US typically uses importers who add perhaps 30% as their profit. What Tidal has done, is to remove the importer. So Tidal staff now have to run their own rooms at shows and deal with reviewers and orders and shipping, as well as warehousing some product. |
Calloway, happy days are here. I am beginning to miss mine, but when the high temperature is 76ºs and the low 44ºs, it really is nice. An elk was in my backyard yesterday.
Anyway, enjoy. |
Ciro, I have been listening to the TADs for several years at CES, including last year when they had their new amps. They always have a big room and many visitors, but I have never liked them. I hear "wood" when I listen to them. I like the Pioneer stand alone and much cheaper speaker.
I never heard a speaker that rivaled what I heard last year at the RMAF and continue to hear in my home. Of course, everyone's tastes differ. |
Calloway, great! You make me miss mine, which I will not get to hear until the end of Sept. What we do for love!
Oh! They will get better.
I assume that Doug chose to point them straight out? I have mine toed in to intersect just behind me.
Some packing, huh? |
Marc Mickelson of The Audio Beat has done a review of the Tidal Contriva Diacera SEs that is right on the money relative to what I hear. It does discuss the use of the port plugs and the jumper plugs that motivate me to more experimentation with them than I have done.
He uses interconnects and other cabling as well as amps that I have no experience with, but his characterization of what he hears from them, closely parallels what I hear.
It is good that the former importer got this review. It is excellent. |
I haven't seen my Contrivas in 3 months, but mine are just over 10' apart. I do this to avoid having them too close to my side walls. I sit at the same distance from both. They are toed in to intersect just behind my my ears which sounds just like Karelfd's solution.
The distance the Contrivas are from the side walls and from the back wall, I have found are critical to the bass response. I measure the distance from a point between the woofers and the floor and multiply it by 1.65 which can be the distance from the back wall to the face of the woofers or from the center of the woofers and the side walls. Whichever you use, the other distance is then 1.65 times that distance. |
Calloway, Friday or Saturday I should have mine up and running again. I got the Sander Magtech amp now. I have always been concerned that the H-Cat with a 100watts was just not enough power. I think 800 watts into 4 ohms per side should be enough. |
Calloway, there are a multitude of reasons why what I am hearing with my Tidals now that I didn't hear earlier. One is that I forgot how outstanding these speakers are. Two, my Weiss Dac202 is now fully broken in. Three, the Sanders Magtech amp is now fully broken in and its 900 watts per channel into 4 ohms gives it great authority (this is what I am sure you were implying). Four, Pure Music 1.61 played in Memory and HOG mode far surpasses PM 1.40 as used last June. Five, although the Contrivas had no signal for three months, their lacquer may have hardened. Six, a combination of all of the above.
At any rate the top end is etherial and sweet. The ambience of the recording venue, whether open air or in a studio, are quite evident. The dynamics are startling. And the precision of placement within the sound stage is strikingly vivid. |
Geopolitis, I will try Amarra again, but it was no contest when last I compared the two when it was Pure Music 1.40 not the new 1.63. |
Geopolitis, I installed Amarra 2 and listened to two cds. I don't know whether it plays from the hard drive or from memory or ram. It is louder than Pure Music and has more pronounced bass. It doesn't have the top end of Pure Music and thus lacks the ambience retrieval and sense of sound stage.
I will listen more this evening and then do some fast as I can comparisons, but right now I prefer Pure Music as it has greater realism of the recording event. |
Geopolitis, sorry that is not my experience. I do hear the difference with my SR and Exemplar cables and with my H-Cat, Weiss Minerva, and Weiss Dac202, but that only proves the superiority of Pure Music. I will soon have my Exemplar/Oppo 83 back and will see which it is closer to the PM or Amarra. |
Geopolitis, who are they? I know two who totally agree with me for whatever that is worth. What version of PM are you working with? PM 1.60 was a big jump in quality as was Memory playback and HOG. |
I have removed the StillPoints Component stands from my Contrivas and replace them with four new StillPoints Ultimate feet in stainless steel. There was a major improvement in the soundstage and bass. I have never installed the stands that came with the Contrivas.
These StillPoints Ultimate SSs are amazing but I only have 12 with 8 going under the Contrivas and three under my Oppo 83 moded by Exemplar. |
