Thiel - Inventors and Tinkerers All

IMHO, Thiel would be better off trying to keep the impdeance load at or above 4 Ohms, maintain the current sensitivity,and maintaining or better yet lowering the bass response. I would also suggest placing the drivers closer together. This might allow for easier driver intergration and ergo, closer speaker to listener placement. While the smaller speakers allow for appropriate bass reductions in smaller rooms, they don't take into consideration the logistics of placement. As it stands now, Thiels smaller speakers require nearly the same distance from surrounding walls and listener as their larger ones. While allowing for closer surrounding wall proximity, might compromise imaging, it might also economicaly improve bass response. Improved bass response might shed the reputation Thiel has for "brightness" (an opinion, I don't subscribe to). I know its hard to bend the rules of physics, but, if anybody can, Jim Thiel can. I would love to see the return of sealed boxes. Perhaps a fresh (digital?) approach to the brain child that was the 3.5. All the recent research that went into the new subwoofer should help to keep development costs down. Heck, they could just slap a powerpoint on top of the subwoofer. Maybe, just for giggles, they could slap two of them on top, back to back, and play with a dipole?

Zaikesman, thanks for your typical well thought out reply. I personally find the bass of most Thiels very good, but, think they could be better. The bass doesn't seem to have the same quality transient response of the (albeit superb) middle and upper frequencies. The Thiels seem to be better on bowed bass than plucked bass. Of course this is less of an issue as you move up the line. Unlike some other manufacturers less expensive speakers, Thiel rolls off the bottom, but not the top. Upon casual listening they may come across as "top heavy" or "bright". I believe that the smaller two ways would benefit most from close driver proximity. I don't believe getting the extra cabinet volume due to the more severe baffle slant would be too difficult to accomodate. Earlier Thiels and more recent (port outputs aside) Meadowlarks seem to have managed this. It seems that bass response usually comes at a cost. Using close wall proximity to compensate for the cost of bass along with closer driver proximity in their less expensive/less bass producing speakers would alieviete some of that expense and permit better/more flexible use in the smaller rooms that they would most often and more appropriately be used in. A room that can accomodate more bass can probably accomodate more distance from surrounding walls and listener(s), and visa versa. I don't think that the 1 series would be considered "near-full range", and weren't intended to be. Unless JT or someone else has any other ideas, I think you are right on in saying that the speakers would have to be lower to accomodate more rake. This might(?) cause problems with ceiling/wall reflections. I think most (certainly not all) listeners would prefer more complete musical content over imaging. Thiels more expensive speakers are already on the large side. I don't believe that at the upper end of the range, the extra size and perhaps price would not be so much of an issue, for the advantges of a sealed box. Perhaps, passive radiators in the lower end and sealed boxes in the upper end would be the best compromise. Its note worthy that Thiels most recent work in developing a subwoofer produced an active equalized sealed box. As far as more advanced cabinets go, it appears that many of your suggestions may already be, somewhat in place internaly. On the other hand seeing how Thiel has been in the fore front of in house computer designed and laser manufactured cabinets, perhaps your ideas will come to fruition, sooner than later.

Zaikesman, I'm not surprised to see that after further discussion we seem to be agreeing more and more and disagreeing less and less. I agree with you that Thiels lower priced speakers seem to lack a bit in bass weight and are quite good in transient bass for their "price range". How ever I think the opposite is true for their upper end speakers. Perhaps you can understand why (though for secondary reasons) I think their lower priced speakers could be designed for closer wall proximity. As for the "looking down perspective", I too have expereienced this. Having moved my speakers into 4 different rooms and using a variety of gear, I can confidently say that this a room and associated gear phenomon. In your case I'm quite sure that your VTL's are NOT the problem. May I humbly suggest some ceiling room treatment? I too think a tri-way is intriguing, but, was embarassed to mention what I thought would be such an engineering challange. Maybe MCS1's and Thiels subwoofers might be the ticket? As always thanks for sharing your appreciated and respected thoughts.