Hi Pani, I am, like Henry, a kind of toneram junkie and own many (12 at present). I can recommend many but will keep the numbers 'modest': Lustre GST 801, Sumiko 800 ('the arm'), Sony PUA 237, JVC UA 7047/7082 (see ebay.com), Micro 505 and Zeta. |
Dear Suteetat, The Reed tonearms have different kinds of wood-wands and consequently different eff.mass. Not to mention different lenghts. My 2 A ( 12" ) with Pernambucco
wood -wand has the eff. mass of 27 g. and was a perfect match with the low complience Phase Tech P-3 G. So not the tonearm (name)was wrong but your own wood choice was wrong in connection with the Koetsu. Or so I thought.
Regards, |
Roxy, Try to read between the lines. I assumed that non
of us is a shrink. |
Keep your FR-64 S. To my mind the FR-66s is overpriced but not better. Anyway for the carts you own te FR-64s is as good. I use the Kiseki blue Goldspot as well as the Benz LP s and the Magic Diamond with my FR-64 s. I also prefer the Bearwald geometry: 231,5 mm distance pivot to spindle. |
Dear Suteetat, With some reluctance because of my 'technical know how' I need to mention my experience with difficult to get armboards. I discovered those chops which make all kinds of things from acrylic. Some of them use laser for the purpose. They can produce whatever armboard with whatever thickness very accurate. You need however to provide them with a good diagram or example with exact dimensions for the arm geometry. My Kuzma S.R. consist of much acrylic but in conjunction (aka 'sandwich')with aluminum plates. I also owned some P.Lurne TT's ( Audiomeca J1) with similar 'sandwich' construction with acrylic . Not to mention my German ASR 'artillery' (Basis
Exclusive and Emitter II ) 'loaded' with acrylic. So I deduced:' this stuff can't be bad '(?).Except that is when one try to clean the damn stuff. My own added problem is the fact that I fear the cleaning ladies as the ony kind of the human kind. So I decided to do without and do this job myself. It shows alas. I just spend 6000 euro for the new carpets , new curtains and paintwork.
Regards, |
Hi Pany, You look like a philosopher: questions for the sake of questions. To many I would think. BTW nobody uses those old and heavy headshells. The price you mentioned is because they are 'original'. Whatever the merits of the 'original' may be they sell well. The most of us use the Orsonic , preferably the AV-101 b or s. |
Dear Henry, 'All the facts' I got from Germany or the(former) German 'group'. The first review about both; the FR-64S and FX was in 'Das Ohr' from 1984. My dear friend
and the highest authority reg. all FR components Dertonarm was then reviewer by this Magazine. He as well as the Magazine recommended the Orsonic I mentioned and advised against the clumsy original headshell. In the same
Magazine there was a review about (10) headshells with the first price for the Orsonic. What is more if you look at Syntax's system you will see the same Orsonic holding
the 'fellow' Olympos. Thuchan owns so many headshells so he MUST have at least one Orsonic. Besides we don't need advice from someone from a developing country about such technical matters. I know that you pretend to know something about headshells but your preference for the wooden kind says enough. I hope Raul will explain to us what kind of distortions are involved by your preference. BTW my specimen is from the time when Chinese had no idea what a headshell means.
Regards,
|
Dear Suteetat, My Slavic brother convinced me to use my FR-64S because of the removable headshell. He however forget to mention how many headshells I would need and more in particular what they cost. My pragmatic ego discovered those magnesium headshells which are probable produced by Jelco but sold under different names for different prices. I bought 4 of those, named 'Sumiko', for only 40 GBP each on ebay.uk. They are excelent and complete: with azimuth provision, good 'tags', screws and even a finger lift. I mention the finger lift because the Britons ask 20 GBP for those old-fashioned SME kinds. But in case you prefer the wooden kind you can make them with your knife yourself for much less.
Regards, |
Dear Suteetat, The FR-64 s was a bargain in the 80 is and still is. Your choice of the headshell however should be dependant from the cart you use or intend to use. By changing the headshell you also change the eff. mass of the arm. So there is no headshell to be known a priori. |
To my knowledge there is just one copy and you can get it
for $ 450 on our own Audiogon market. This copy is nearly
as good as Henry's original but in short supply. You should
ask for the 'ordinary grease' instead of this sticky silicon oil
or clean the silicon oil and use some grease instead. I bought
two of those but for $500 each. Still a bargain in my opinion.
Regards, |
Dear Lew, The same reason(ing) caused me to buy the Triplanar VII and Reed 2A with the fast headshells and wire all the way to the pre. My FR-64s where in the box till Henry convinced me to rethink my assumption(s). I am glad I deed and have no reason at all to question the wire, the Din plug or whtever by the FR-64s. BTW I own both; the silver and copper 'versions' but have no preference for one or the other.
Regards,
|
Dear Lew, Before you try to do this job yourself you shoulf first look at: www.thomas-schlick.com -fr 64. There you can see the complexity involved. Schlick deed this job himself but he is, you know, a tonearm designer. The only thing I needed to do according to Dertonarm was to put the arm in the son like the watchmaker use to do with
whatches. As you know some Greek philospher wanted also some 'son-light' and asked Alexander: 'get a little bit out of the son'.
Regards, |
For the kind of distortions Syntax mentioned we are not
qualified to judge. |
Unfortunaly some are repeating themselfs twice. |
I hope others may also be interested in a comparison between the 'classic' FR-64/66 and the new Ikeda's IT 407 and 345? As far as I know the 'general opinion' is that the 'classic' are superiour. However I noticed J.Carr's opinion (MM thread)that the IT -345 is the best tonearm ever made by Takeda.The reason mentioned is that Ikeda has (meanwhile) much better understanding of the resonances involved. I admire Carr very much and bought the IT 345 on his authority. However I am also reluctant to change the 'status' of my IT 345 from 'brand new' into 'second hand'. I hope for some empathy for the 'Hamlet' involved.
Regards, |
Lew and I agreed that the necessary condition for repeating oneself is to do this twice. Otherwise ther would be no repetition at all. Newillekapadia obviously agrees with us. Now according to Lew 3 x repetition is not excusable. What than about endless repetition of, say, distortions? |
Suteetat, It is not my intention to suggest that you should become a collector of protractors but I ordered by Yip from the Mint tractor exactly this distance:231.5 mm
I need to adjust just one cart and than use this sample to adjust the other headshells/styli with a caliper. This method reduces those precarious adjustment acts to two: VTF and anti-skate.
Regards, |
What is in a name? Well the name is about the reference
and when we want to find something we need a name. The
tonearm made by 'tonearm' (aka'Der Tonarm' in German) is
called the Axiom. The Arche headshell which we discussed
in the context of the 'iron horse versus locomotive' is included
or build in the Axiom. I got the Arche for free,
Thuchan got also the Arche for free but also the Axiom (?).
Some guys are more lucky than other.
Regards, |
Speaking about repetition. This is 33 1/2 time we dwell about tonearm geometry. The 1/2 one was the thread with only two contributions so it would be not correct to count
this one as a whole thread. I play my records only around the O points with the least possible distortion. Even Raul with his distortions obsession never got this idea. However his 'learning curve' still make some progress... Depending from the part of the record which one want to hear and enjoy in the most pure way one should of course use the geometry intended for this part.
I am however not sure if all 45 preadjusted headshells in Australia can be used in both tonearms (66 and 64) this way. Anyway it is impossible to use one half one way and
the other the other way. So the dilemma in this case is in which to use 23 headshells. |
I asked Daniel (Dertonarm) about the 'geometry' of all those FR-7 versions. He still swears by those 'antiquity' while his answer surprised me very much. The stylus in
those huge headshells is not at the same distance by all of them. So, probable, even Dertonarm was/is not able to get the right geometry for his 66/ 7 (x) combos? If I was an Aussie I would inform by Daniel about my own specimen. But the most curious thing is that my FR-7 stylus follows exactly the curve on my Mint protractor made for my FR64
with 231,5 mm P2S distance. |
Dear Thuchan, 'Who told you I got my Arche,( etc.) for free?'
Well, dear Thuchan, I don't use question marks as often as some Aussie but 'it' was there at the end of my hypothetical statement. As a (guest) member of the 'German group' I assumed 'they probable share many things together' so IF Thuchan got the Axiom for free why not me? To put it otherwise: nobody told me this. I invented the possibility in my own interest. However I got the Arche honestly for free probable because my 'hard cach' is not as 'hard' as yours .
Regards, |
Dear Suteetat, I own 12 tonearms but use 'only' three of them. The Triplanar and the Reed 2A on my Kuzma S.R and the FR 64 s on my Sp 10. I also own some 'universal protractors' but when I got my first Mint LP I was 100%sure when I ordered the other two. Whatever the next one may be for $100 there is no contest in my opinion.
Regards, |
Dear Thuchan, I am really sorry for you but Daniel obviously love me more than you. However I like to think that my ingenious comparison between 'iron horse and locomotive' (aka the usual headshell versus Arche) moved Daniel in such a way that he decided to give me a present...
You as the owner of a company are of course familiar with the so called 'intellectual ownership'. When Raul refers to 'his' pre-amp, 'his' tonearm ,etc, 'his' , he rarely mention his employee Guliermos (or similar) who is actually the technical guy behind the products mentioned.
As you know the intellectual property is of the company and not of the employees inside the company. As Raul told us himself he managed to change some fuses, caps and resistors on his own. Well I am sure that my aunt Natalija in Serbia is also capable to solder such parts with their values writen on their 'heads' in whatever component. You can observe the same capabilities in the speaker thread. Unbelievable how many speaker experts are there, capable to discovere 'cheap wire' and/ or 'capacitors' in any speaker whatever. It is like this : 'Heureka'!: cheap wire inside! No wonder Nordost get rich with such experts.
Regards, |
Dear Henry, First of all we live in the so called 'global village'. While Germany is much nearer to me, Mexico is not at some far-away distance. Besides we have the internet
so one hears something or other. Regarding my 'deductive'capabilities you need to (re)read my post. Those are pure legal arguments based on the property laws.
If there is no logic in those laws than I am not able to see why you should blame me for this fact? If it is a fact. However I should provide more info about my beloved aunt Natalija. Uncle Boris (her husbend) got, according to his own story, the Russian oil capacitor of 3,7 mF value from Medvedev personaly. But my aunt Natalija soldered this cap on his tweeter.
Regards, |
Addendum, My aunt Natalija was the former employee by the
former 'E.I' (electronic industry) in the former Yugoslavia. |
Dear Thuchan, I will post to you the email address of my
uncle Boris.I am sure he will gladly exchange his Natalija
for your speakers provided he can use his 'Medvedev'
capacitors with your HF drivers. He will namely not part
from his Russian oil capacitors.
Regards, |
I was as puzzled as Lewm with the offset angle .etc., and reread the article by Kessler and Pisha about the Tonearm Geomtery and Setup. I see that Lewm 'got the picture' in
his next post ( 05-19-13) but he is better than I in, inter alia, math and physics. The confusing part is the P2S distance. One should forget about this parameter and
consider that overhang and offset angle are also involved in tonearm geometry. According to Kessler and Pisha the most Japanese tonearms got the overhang wrong. That is to say not optimal in correaltion to the eff. lenght.
I got the answers from Daniel about his reasons to change his opinion about the 'usual' geometry but I need his permission to quote from his email first.
Now my own position is this. While I like to consider myself as 'pedantic' I am, lucky me, not an perfectionist. I made so much effort to get this damn distance for my FR-64 exactly at 231.5 mm and even more effort to adjust 7 headshells with carts on the 'line curve' of my Mint protractor that I have no intention whatever to mess with offset angle and overhang at all. O. Wilde wrote:'I have simple testes, I am always satisfy with the best'. My philosphy is: I am satisfy with the second best.
Regards,
|
Dear Lew, Your philosophical questions are to difficult for me. Anyway the questions like: 'how do you know?' Should I say :'I have read this in some Magazine' to impress you?
But If you owned the Mint tractor specialy made for your FR-64 S in conjunction with the exact dimension of the spindle of the TT involved you would know when this exact
distance of 231,5 mm is 'there'. Namely when the stylus follows exactly the thin line curve 'cut' with the laser.
Regars, |
Dear Thuchan, It is risky to tease someone because of his
family. This is 'not done' because nobody can choose his
family. I wish I could so we could be the real twin brothers (grin).
Regards, |
Dear Henry, I explained my situation and prefrence already. I also mentioned my Mint tractor explicite so if I owned UNItractor I would certainly mentioned this. You stated in an earlier post to have problems with my 'deductive capabilities'. To demonstrate otherwise I only need to ask you to look at your first sentence in your post and correlate this one with your last sentence. While you was reluctant to 'offend' me with my 'simple testes' in the first sentence in your last sentence you want me to become 'more cultured'. Very strange logic I would think. Besides deed you not put your beloved question marks by the 14,5 mm overhang and 20,5 offset asking if this make any difference ?
Regards,
|
Dear Henry, I am sorry to have missed the Aussie humour.
I thought that we were talking about the tonearm geometry
while you was , as a good friend should do, worried about
my physical 'state'. Years ago I made similar lapsus by my
other Slavic brother Lewm with the compliment that he was
a smart gay according to me. To paraphrase Shakespeare:
'what is in one letter?'
Regards, |
