need advise, which is the weakest link in my audio chain

Few possibilities to improve…

1. Room acoustics - any room treatments? How big is the room? What does the speaker placement look like - distance from walls, distance between speakers, toe in?

2. Power - do you use a power conditioner?

3. Do the speakers produce enough bass in this room to balance out the high frequencies? If not, consider a sub or a change to floor standing full range speakers. 
4. cables - what speaker cables and interconnects are you using? 

I had the BP6 as well and it’s a very neutral preamp but when paired with a Bryston 2B SST I found what you’re finding in that it was a little thin sounding.  But when I paired the BP6 with my McCormack DNA-0.5 RevA amp it was fuller and more natural sounding and much more balanced IMHO.  I’d recommend taking a look at this DNA-225 that’s a good value and should flesh things out very nicely.  You could also look at your DAC as upgrading to one of the newer R2R DACs might be more to your sonic preferences.  Hope this helps, and best of luck.

https://www.usaudiomart.com/details/649982529-mccormack-dna-225-power-amplifier-works-perfectly/

thank you for your reply sir.

1. room acoustics 

- 2'x4' absorption panel at front wall (behind of each speaker)

- 2'x4' diffuser of each side wall

- ceiling corner bass trap

- some acoustic panel at rear wall

- room size is rather small .. 10'x10'

- speaker pull out 1.5' from front wall and side wall, slight toe in

2. no power conditioner

3. bass is enough without sub

i have heco sub, but seldom use coz some song low freq may overblown in my small room

4. cables

- speaker cable use cardas quadlink 5c

- pre to power - interconnect nordost flatline black knight

- cd player to preamp - use chord clearway

- rega dac idling not in use 

...which is the weakest link in my audio chain?

For me (and probably many others) - it’s my ears. 😁

I second the notion of checking your room’s acoustics first, as your setup appears to be very capable. I had solved a confusing "smeariness" on the staging from my system that I attributed to the TVs screen being slightly skew to the listening position and not acoustically treated (I ended up throwing a blanket over it - helped immensely).

Bryston, from my experience, sometimes borders on the threadbare, but that Rega of yours should be able to fill out some of the thinness.

Yep - look at your room acoustics first.

Hi soix..

glad to hear you have bp6 as well, yes it does very neutral and silent preamp

in my country (Malaysia) seems almost non exist to find the McCormack amp

bp6 with 3bst i found a bit bright

for the dac, yes the rega i think time to be replaced

cause it did not give me improvement when marantz cdp connected to rega dac

Dear Christian

i have a 40 inches tv screen at front wall

ok i will give it a try to throw a blanket cover it 😉

when connected marantz to rega dac - sound slight organic but top end a bit loss

@soix

I had the BP6 as well and it’s a very neutral preamp but when paired with a Bryston 2B SST I found what you’re finding in that it was a little thin sounding. But when I paired the BP6 with my McCormack DNA-0.5 RevA amp it was fuller and more natural sounding and much more balanced IMHO.

Yes, in this particular set up it could be the power amplifier is the culprit. I’ve read similar sonic signature/descriptions of this amplifier in the past.

Charles

Charles,

seems like i should borrow any power amp from friends to try out

anyone ever listen to quad power amp ?

Have you considered trying tube amps?

I'd say DAC is your weak spot.  The DAC is the heard of the digital system.  In your cord discussion you said the DAC is not in use.  So you are using the DAC in he CD player to convert to analog.  Not high end.  Tuners are not so good.  I guess you aren't streaming.  So I don't see how you are delivering a high quality signal to your system.

Jerry

@nagasakti70 

seems like i should borrow any power amp from friends to try out

I think it’s a very reasonable first step to try borrowed amplifiers and listen for differences you might hear. It would certainly provide some meaningful feedback on what your Bryston amplifier is sonically imparting.

Charles

No doubt that the DAC is (Actually any signal chain component) an important contributor to the overall sound quality and character. However, given @soix comments above, the Bryston amplifier is worthy of suspicion.

Charles

I would suspect that you would prefer a warmer sounding amp.  Even if your speakers are not that efficient, in a small room you should be able to utilize a tube amp of modest power output.  I think something that runs EL84 tubes, or 6L6, or KT 66 tubes would sound good.  These are nice sounding tubes that can deliver warmth without sounding murky or too polite and lifeless.

I personally find that the amp makes a huge difference in the sound, much more so than the choice of linestage or source components (assuming these are decent choices).  

Lots of good advice above…

I would add few things to try:

1. This will cost nothing: Swap diffusion and absorption panels - place the absorbers on side walls and diffusers behind speakers. If possible. Reason - room is most likely too small to make effective use of diffusers at the first reflection points. 
2. Not familiar with you amplifier and pre, but I would try another amp and if possible another preamp with it. 
3. I had the CD6006 it’s not a bad player but it isn’t as good as you can make it sound by adding a good dac. I agree with others here.

Just my thoughts 
 

Poor OP opened a can of worms. I would alway start with the free options and work my way up the money scale. 10x10 you are in a cube and that is very difficult to overcome. Follow the advice of @audphile1 and play around with adjusting your room treatment possibly adding more. Nothing wrong with your transport, and you could audition a better DAC heck there are some really good DACs under $2000.00 on USAM used. 

To buttress some of the above thoughts and suggestions, trying different amps would also be my first thought. I am using an excellent, fairly expensive DAC (Aqua La Scala), and fine, very revealing speakers (Fink Team KIM –again, not cheap), and recently, I had a minor repair done on my integrated amp (Circle Labs A200), which I have been very happy with. I took the opportunity to try three different, high-quality integrated amps in my system, as my dealer was generous enough to allow me to do so.

The first was an Accuphase E-380, the second a Luxman L-509x, and finally a SoulNote A-2. The differences between the type of sound produced was easily discernible in each case, and I ultimately found that I preferred my A200 over all of them. But the important take-away is that system synergy always matters. I have no doubt that for other audiophiles, any of the three amps that I auditioned could be end-game components. But within the context of my system, and given my preferences (slightly warm, detailed but not clinical, etc.), they weren’t as satisfying overall as the A200 (which, by the way, costs far less than the E-380 and L-509x).

One can certainly glean useful insights from reviews and anecdotal reports, but unless the component in question is heard within the context of one’s own system, it is risky to take anything for granted.

Finally, these symptoms all strike me as being consistent with the character of the amp. Yes, they can be mitigated in other ways, but a different amp may well solve all of those issues on its own, and prove to be a more 'organic' solution.

- a bit forward sound

- sometime may a little dry/harsh sounding when source recording is poor

- lack of sweet top end

Quite likely your interconnects and power cords need replacing

But first, Mad Scientist Audio's Graphene Contact enhancer is amazing, and much cheaper than replacing anything until you apply it

hth

@wturkey lol

Fuses.

No, seriously, your problem isn't your equipment, it's the 10' x 10' square room. The only thing that will improve it is playing with acoustic treatment and speakers / listening chair positions. You may end up satisfied or you may not. A small square room for audio is as big a challenge I can think of. 

Upgrade your dac Denafrips new Pontus 12 th anniversary at $1800

is far superior , if you don’t have that their Aries 12th anniversary dac is under $1050 and still a big improvement very smooth and detailed R2R dac.

OP,

It would be really helpful if you could put photos of your system and room under your USERID. There is a place to create your virtual system. This would be really helpful. This would help us to understand the entire situation and make reasonable recommendations.

Folks are trying to be helpful here, but the recommendations are all over the map because there is not enough info to be helpful.

Thanks,

George
 

+1 @baylinor

thank you everybody to give so many good suggestions.

1. yes, my listening room is given me lot of trouble when initial setup

beside too small, worst it is in square. but that the only room i have at this moment.

i have tried many acoustics placement.

my experience if absorption panel at side wall result the top end roll off and it sound lifeless too.

so long term plan renovate house, i have an option to extend the room from 10'x10'  to 10'x18'

2. any idea which combination may give more positive impact ?

- solid state preamp (keep my bp6) + tube power amp

- tube preamp + lexicon nt-212 (keep my current amp)

- Sugden A21SE class A integrated amplifier 

3. does chinese dac any good for my upgrade ?

Nagasaki, A few suggestions:

(1) As several have already said, your  room is a box and is not optimal in dimensions. Please take the advice offered and play sound with your sound treatments

(2) Your DAC situation is confusing at best, and a great DAC is key to all of your digital audio. A great DAC that fits the exact sound signature you want would be a Denafrips Pontus II 12th Anniversary…..about $1,850 through Vinshine Audio

Unless or until your room issues can be addressed, component upgrades will most probably be money wasted.

If you’re looking to upgrade components, two things…integrated like the Pass Int60 or even Int25, and new dac plus streamer. Ditch the bryston separates, use your Marantz as a transport plus stream from Qobuz or Tidal . Keep in mind, as I said earlier, that Marantz isn’t a harsh sounding player so the amplification upgrade will make a more positive impact thsn adding a dac to those Bryston components.

yes, i agree with most of you .. room issue limited the potential of my current setup

i was so desperate to find the weakest link on my equipment until forgot my super small square box room is the one degrade the overall sound😅

btw, i am non I.T savvy guy, how to upload picture here ?

my room photo was in my computer hardisk.

how to upload picture here ? my room photo was in my computer hardisk.

Create your virtual systems page and upload the photos.

  How Do I Create and Edit My Virtual System?

@nagasakti70 

Perhaps a corner set up would work better than the standard set up. Have you tried it? Good luck ! 

Tough room! Demo an Anthem STR pre with room correction.

@nagasakti70 just curious how thick are the absorption panels. You mentioned the sound becomes dull when you place the absorbers on the side walls. Also what is the material used in the panels? If it’s foam it would explain the effect. With quality absorption on side walls you should hear more focus and details in the soundstage. So something is off…

+2 @baylinor 

Only thing I can add is maybe try headphones.

I would continue to work on your room.

Looking over your equipment. I would say, given what you have said, Bryson is probably not a good match for your tastes (or mine). While quiet and detailed, they are pretty analytical and the opposite of sweet and musical.

While upgrading your DAC will gain you a lot. I think the first thing you want is to get your central components correct to your tastes (preamp and Amp). I think you would be much happier with a tubed preamp (as high a quality as you can afford)… and a warmer amp… since your speakers are 88db… not tremendously efficient, you will probably have to use a solid state amp (tube would be preferred, but I am guessing a good 60wpc tube amp is not in your budget)… you want a warm amp… things like Krell, Pass, and CJ come to mind… probably above your budget. Some folks hear can probably recommend some lower budget options.

i just upload room photo in picture profile

but still not able to put picture in the forum due to below link was failed to access

(i think it was blocked at my working office) 😅

Create your virtual systems page and upload the photos.

  How Do I Create and Edit My Virtual System?

based on all helpful advise from you all

the priority more seems like :-

1. room issue

- bad shape and too small, probably better to keep current setup till i really have budget to renovate extend the room dimension

2. when no.1 done, then only i can review again my setup correctly, who knows i may love the sound later

recent years, i keep on trial and error changing amp, speaker, interconnect and power cable. adding dac and acoustic treatment too

urfortunately found that my friends setup at their home sound more spacious, lively and nice top end compare to mine. 

some of them spend not even half of my cost.

yes, they put the system at hall, a lot bigger space than my tiny square room.

this is 1st time i post forum ask about my gears, i feel really grateful to get good response useful advise and suggestions from u all.

atleast now i have clear direction which i should take first

Room.. room... room... my most weakest link here😁

btw in hifi world, upgrade gears and trying other brand sound signature is very additive and system synergy is important too.

my future target will be dac and adding new source streaming device

cheers guys 😎

IMHO get rid of the cardas quadlink. I found it killed killed the dynamics of my system. I would suspect the Bryston is a little to neutral. I would look for a nice tube integrated. 

To create your virtual systems page and upload the photos:

At the forum home page upper left there's "A" logo, next to it is a small drop down menu symbol, click on it and select " Virtual systems ".

On the virtual systems page there's a yellow menu bar, click on "Create system" and go from there.

dear imhififan

i just did what you informed

but then next how to upload into this chat post ?

i did it .. thanks imhifiman 😁

👍🥂

Thanks. Nice photo. Yes, that looks like a challenging room. And the solution will be lots of dampening.
 

Are the big rectangular  objects in the corner bass traps? Your room looks perfect for tube traps. I would go to their site. You’ll see that three in front are used for a challenging room. Also carpet down to the speakers.

Also on the walls. I am not an expert by a long shot… but those do not look like they would be really effective. 

Yes the diffusion panels on the side walls leave a lot to be desired.
My recommendation still stands - absorption instead of diffusion on the side walls. Also, the corner bass traps up towards the ceiling…are they foam? They’re probably good at reducing echo but in my experience foam doesn’t do much for bass trapping and it tends to make the highs sound dry. 
I would start with removing the diffusors and placing absorbers there. Something like GIK 242 or 244 panels or something of similar quality and build including the materials used. 
This is a cheaper path forward. The more expensive approach is to replace your Bryston components with a good integrated amp. But the room issues will persist even with new and better amp. It will most likely be more tolerable. Again, DAC and cd player won’t get you there as quickly as the amp upgrade would.