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Musetec (LKS) MH-DA005 DAC
Some history: I was the OP on a four year old thread about the Chinese LKS MH-DA004 DAC. It achieved an underground buzz. The open architecture of its predecessor MH-DA003 made it the object of a lot of user mods, usually to its analog section, rolling op amps or replacing with discrete. The MH-DA004 with its new ESS chips and JFET analog section was called better then the modified older units. It has two ES9038pro DAC chips deliberately run warm, massive power supply, powered Amanero USB board, JFET section, 3 Crystek femtosecond clocks, Mundorf caps, Cardas connectors, etc., for about $1500. For this vinyl guy any reservation about ESS chips was resolved by the LKS implimentaion, but their revelation of detail was preserved, something that a listener to classic music especially appreciated. I made a list of DACs (many far more expensive) it was compared favorably to in forums. Modifications continued, now to clocks and caps. Components built to a price can be improved by costlier parts and the modifiers wrote glowingly of the SQ they achieved.
Meanwhile, during the 4 years after release of the MH-DA004, LKS (now Musetec) worked on the new MH-DA005 design, also with a pair of ES9038pro chips. This time he used more of the best components available. One torroidal transformer has silver plated copper. Also banks of super capacitors that act like batteries, solid silver hookup wire, 4 femtoclocks each costing multiples of the Crysteks, a revised Amanero board, more of the best European caps and a new partitioned case. I can't say cost NO object, but costs well beyond. A higher price, of course. Details at http://www.mu-sound.com/DA005-detail.html
The question, surely, is: How does it sound? I'm only going to answer indirectly for the moment. I thought that the MH-DA004 was to be my last DAC, or at least for a very long time. I was persuaded to part with my $$ by research, and by satisfaction with the MH-DA004. Frankly, I have been overwhelmed by the improvement; just didn't think it was possible. Fluidity, clarity, bass extension. A post to another board summed it up better than I can after listening to piano trios: "I have probably attended hundreds of classical concerts (both orchestral and chamber) in my life. I know what live sounds like in a good and bad seat and in a good and mediocre hall. All I can say is HOLY CRAP, this sounds like the real thing from a good seat in a good hall. Not an approximation of reality, but reality."
Meanwhile, during the 4 years after release of the MH-DA004, LKS (now Musetec) worked on the new MH-DA005 design, also with a pair of ES9038pro chips. This time he used more of the best components available. One torroidal transformer has silver plated copper. Also banks of super capacitors that act like batteries, solid silver hookup wire, 4 femtoclocks each costing multiples of the Crysteks, a revised Amanero board, more of the best European caps and a new partitioned case. I can't say cost NO object, but costs well beyond. A higher price, of course. Details at http://www.mu-sound.com/DA005-detail.html
The question, surely, is: How does it sound? I'm only going to answer indirectly for the moment. I thought that the MH-DA004 was to be my last DAC, or at least for a very long time. I was persuaded to part with my $$ by research, and by satisfaction with the MH-DA004. Frankly, I have been overwhelmed by the improvement; just didn't think it was possible. Fluidity, clarity, bass extension. A post to another board summed it up better than I can after listening to piano trios: "I have probably attended hundreds of classical concerts (both orchestral and chamber) in my life. I know what live sounds like in a good and bad seat and in a good and mediocre hall. All I can say is HOLY CRAP, this sounds like the real thing from a good seat in a good hall. Not an approximation of reality, but reality."
Showing 50 responses by americanspirit
Good morning without going too far into the diatribe that emerges from the differences between objective and subjective observations, I can conclude that the dilemma will never find a square: as ASR mistakenly thinks that reality can be completely represented through elementary mathematical modeling (at too childish levels if you think you can model a melody with a 1 kHz sine wave). This is completely insane, it's like comparing two atues based only on top speed on a straight ... The situation that is embarrassing for me concerns the data published on the Musetec website: With those found by ASR: even if I do not rely on the measurements, the published data must be truthful, otherwise I will lose confidence in the device manufacturer |
good morning everyone I just bought a Musical Fidelity M8sPRE (https://www.musicalfidelity.com/products/m8series/m8spre), after careful research it seemed to me the best preamp to match our beloved DAC. tonight I'll plug it into my system and listen to MUSETEC... I'll update you soon with photos and first impressions |
dear toddk31 I find your behavior perfect, I have nothing to say. thank you on behalf of all for allowing us to test your unit. about your choice to return it, ditto. I own a modified dx7 pro topping with OP Muses, a Gustrard x26 Pro and this week comes the MUSETC MH DA500. I will perform blind listening tests by connecting them via SUPRA USB2 0.7m cable to a mcintosh mc152 amplifier via OEHLBACH XXL XLR 0.5m cable and to B&W 804 D3 speakers via QED Genesis Silver Spiral 1.5m cable. soon I will be able to offer you my honest consideration based solely on blind listening (plus that of about twenty friends) |
why has none of those who consider themselves scientists ever plugged one of their DACs into an audio system of the highest level (costing more than 2 million euros)? it's the only way to "feel" the differences from one device to another. |
Is it possible to ask the manufacturer to correct what is reported on the technical specifications or to refute the ASR tests? Is it possible to explain to the followers of ASR that what is not measurable at the moment does not necessarily exist? they seem to me to be two essential questions, answering which would put an end to the diatribe |
still here debating the goodness of the measurements? poor people!!! |
my dear, my comments are not aimed at you. these are general considerations that I find myself expressing motivated by the war in progress between this forum (which I find democratic as everyone expresses their opinion freely) and the ASR forum (completely undemocratic, as they eliminate uncomfortable posts and ban users who ask uncomfortable questions). I mainly address the alleged witnesses of science and the "metaphysicians" of sound. remove the blinders, be more open to knowledge, make peace not war |
I feel great with the supra cable, I have been using it for a year and I chose it because it is the only one with certification and specific technical data. I don't use any preamplifier as I want to directly amplify the output signal from the DAC (without artifacts created by other devices, which, even if not measurable there are ...), I understand that the digital volume is not the maximum but I am aware of this . upstream of the DAC I have a PC with ROON and I use ASIO |
yes, I am aware of the limitations of digital volume control. as anticipated I prefer this compromise (lack common to all the dacs in my possession) to carry out the listening tests rather than inserting a preamplifier. as regards the system upstream of the DAC, I have a DELL workstation with ROON installed and I use the ASIO drivers supplied by the DAC manufacturers. what do you mean by special system? do you have any advice? |
I report the first brief report below, I hope to please: first start up: more than two minutes of loading, DAC setting in line with the manufacturer's recommendations: DPLL BW01, NO DEENPHASIS. first listening: when I switch on the device I detect bad audio quality for at least an hour, as the DAC warms up the quality improves but it is not yet decent (medium frequencies are not very audible); after three hours the three-dimensionality of the sound begins to be built, the soundstage is wide both in width and in depth, the instruments are clearly distinguishable, the medium frequencies are still at a low level. already like this, with only three hours of running in it is already superior to the DAC Topping DX7 Pro ... the sound of the Topping in comparison is completely two-dimensional, it loses depth and the instruments are not as distinguishable. I can't imagine how the MUSETEC can sound after the recommended 200 hours of running in ... I'm full of expectations |
update after 100 hours of Burn-In Once the listening commenced, it was immediately apparent that the MH-DA005 was different from any other DAC I’ve heard. The sound had the remarkable quality of appearing from nowhere, completely untethered to the speakers. This characteristic was certainly related to the MH-DA005 completely silent background as well as its stunning spatial presentation, with wide staging and continuousness of imaging. But the MH-DA005 disappearing act went beyond these usual tropes. The impression of hearing music rather than a hi-fi system was profound. The MH-DA005 is so transparent to the music that I had the odd sensation of the speakers not being the source of the sound. Opening my eyes at the end of a piece of music, I was sometimes momentarily startled to see this pair of B&W standing in front of me. In the ability to resolve very fine detail, the MH-DA005 is, again, phenomenally great. I heard things in familiar recordings that were startling. The track “I Love Being Here with You” from Diana Krall’s Live in Paris (a terrific record, by the way), is a good example. During the piano solo, I heard, for the first time, some very quiet vocalizing underneath the music. This element added more life to the music, accentuating the live nature of the performance. But beyond this element of arcane audiophile interest, the song simply brimmed with the excitement of a first-rate band kicking into gear in front of an audience. All the performances took on a heightened sense of urgency, energy, and spontaneous music-making in a way that was absolutely thrilling. Overall, I have to say that the MH-DA005 is the best-sounding DAC I’ve heard. It represents the ultimate realization of the accumulated knowledge and sophisticated technologies MUSETEC has developed over the past 10 years, along with some remarkable innovations that push the MH-DA005 performance to an unprecedented level. At the proposed price it is a real bargain, in fact it can compete with DACs that cost at least ten times more. I would like to congratulate the designer for what he has managed to achieve, it is a DAC that should be exhibited at the MOMA in New York as a real artistic masterpiece. At this point I can only define the ASR tests as garbage that has nothing to do with science
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I own a modified dx7 pro topping with OP Muses, a Gustrard x26 Pro and Matrix X-SABRE 3...it's like comparing an Amir test with a Van Gogh painting, you want me to tell you more... by the way, the Matrix measures better than the Topping D90SE ... why is it not reviewed by rubbishers or by those who sell ass paper? Are they afraid that it will take away the top spot from Topping? mmmmmmmmmmm |
as soon as the MUSETEC has been run-in I take it to my trusted dealer and insert it in a 1.5 million euro chain, so that I can actually compare it with Esoteric Grandioso D1X, Mola Mola Tambaqui, NAGRA HD DAC X, WEISS DAC501 and DCS Vivaldi DAC Apex ... I hope I can send you the comparison photos soon 😎 |
Have you noticed that topping is churning out DACs over DACs designed to respond superbly to poor amir's classic tests? then you go to listen to them and all this magic measured in amir's fantastic tests disappears and gives way to a disconcerting flatness. it is now well established that either one or the other is carrying out an act that is not at all ethical. I had the opportunity to listen and compare the dx7pro + with the Musetech in my system and, as expected, there is no story ... used to the sound of my MH-DA005 switching to the new Topping was like switching from the light of a clear and sunny day to the light of a dark and cloudy day! in the ranking of the poor amir stilled together with his lucky followers, the topping dx7 + is in first place (124 dB SINAD) while the MUSETECH is in over 250th place (96 dB SINAD) |
the more I read the Topping enthusiasts the more I wonder what system they use and if they have compared their products with other brands. what I want to bring to the attention of true Hi Fi fans is that most likely some Chinese manufacturers (Topping, SMSL, Gusrtard, ...) produce DACs that respond perfectly to poor Amir's tests but are scarce in everyday listening. to obviate my statement just test the top of the poor Amir's list with the MUSETEC, obviously you need a system that allows you to appreciate the differences ... (who has a Topping in his audio chain is probably a person who only pays attention savings so I don't expect it to have a high-end system alas ...) |
you seem a very calm and contemplative person, I agree with most of your statements, what I don't like is one thing. I cannot bear the claims of superiority of pseudo science over human senses. the adepts of poor Amir (who obviously read these posts) consider humans who rely on the senses as deficient, and they consider superior people (not intellectually prepared) who rely on ad hoc measures that have nothing to do with full modeling of reality. in the engineering field, the analysis of the variables involved in sound reproduction is very similar to those that occur in fluid dynamics in the presence of tubulence (n differential equations, n + x unknowns) only the ignorant can only think of being able to approach the explanation of the phenomenon with four elementary equations understandable even to chickens ... |
I wrote "some Chinese producers" and I mentioned "Topping, SMSL and Gustard" I didn't talk about brands that produce serious DACs, which in fact are not reviewed by poor Amir, just in order not to generalize about Chinese production. the brands I mentioned have superb measurements in relation to a sound result not comparable (in default) with devices that have worse measurements. this happens because the measurements made are based exclusively on a few and insufficient parameters able to describe the physical phenomenon. these manufacturers know this and take advantage of it by building and designing their own devices just to respond to these measures. they don't care about the sound result, they noticed a big jump in sales following the publication of the results of the measurements, and that's enough to continue along this path that is not at all ethical. I repeat that it is very easy to compare the sound performance of these low-cost DACs compared to the more "famous" DACs, just listen to them on high-level systems. anyone can pick out the differences, you don't need sensitive ears like a calibration microphone ... the two free pavilions offered by mother nature are enough! |
up to now, based on all comparisons made on very high level systems (1.5-2 million dollars), the only "low cost" DAC that musically produces comparable results with DACs that cost 10 times more is the MUSETEC MH- DA005. those who can afford it can compare it with the NAGRA HD DAC X, with the dCS Vivaldi APEX DAC or with the Gryphon Audio Kalliope. then we will resend for the ratings. p.s .: the MUSETECH used for the subjective evaluation tests was included in a 100% Gryphon Audio chain as follows: Amplifier 2xApex Mono + Preamplifier Commander + Kodo loudspeaker |
I am happy with your answers, it is just what I expect from the followers of poor amir. it is easy for me to be able to reiterate the gaps that your reasoning presents, let's start. We know that the poor amir, in his own right, reviews DAC: the new products come from Chinese low cost (Topping in the front row), the remaining products (with costs much higher than low cost) are provided by the readers of the forum and no one can guarantee on their actual goodness. This first aspect already casts doubt on the goodness of comparisons. as for the measures you say that they describe the goodness of conversion from digital to analog, I wonder are you just ignorant or are you a gullible? going back to the origin, if you don't have a MUSETEC what are you doing here? are you jealous by chance? Would you like someone here to say that the filth that Topping produces is better? know that it will never happen, not because we are followers of MUSETEC, but because it actually sounds GREAT! |
as I have already stated, the MUSETEC has been inserted in a pure class A Gryphon system (https://gryphon-audio.dk) at my trusted dealer (https://www.evoluzionehifi.it/). it was compared for about two months with all the DACs present as a demo in the store (as mentioned, from the NAGRA HD DAC X, to the dCS Vivaldi APEX DAC) plus some Topping DACs bought for fun (DX7Pro and DX7Pro +). I have already expressed the results of the comparison has any of you had the opportunity to test MUSETEC on a better system? do you know any system, better than the one we use, which operates in pure class A and which is such as to allow you to appreciate the (sometimes significant) differences between the different sources? I am willing to welcome feedback from anyone who can test the MH-DA005 in a better system than the one we are using
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just for fun .. Pure Class A True Class A operation has always been a Gryphon hallmark. Why? Because no other circuit topology can match the sonic perfection of pure Class A. Unfortunately, true Class A is even rarer today than when we introduced the legendary DM100 in 1991. Rising consumer awareness has forced some manufacturers to make outrageous, unsubstantiated claims of Class A power ratings that have more to do with marketing than technology. There are a growing number of so-called “new” Class A topologies based on automatic biasing which supposedly allow the amplifier to sense when the bias should increase to ensure constant Class A performance! Put bluntly, you can’t cheat physics. There are no engineering shortcuts when it comes to pure Class A, so we repeat with no apologies: TRUE, PURE CLASS A means heavy transformers, very large heatsinks, large quantities of expensive parts and costly assembly. While we appreciate and endorse every effort to conserve energy and preserve our global resources, our research into efforts to obtain Class A performance from class A/B topologies makes it clear that there simply is no substitute for the sheer magic of pure Class A. However, based on thorough analysis of typical listening situations, we have invented “Green Bias” (“Green” for reduced environmental impact). Green Bias offers TRUE, PURE CLASS A with considerably lower power consumption than traditional solutions. While Green bias does not match the extreme low power consumption of Class A/B, or even the low power consumption of misleading “auto-biasing” systems, it does offer significantly lower power consumption without sacrifice or compromise. PURE CLASS A performance is guaranteed! Apex users who own legacy Gryphon preamplifiers lacking Green Bias can access the programmable bias system manually via the Apex front panel. |
my friend, why do you insist on wanting to see the measurements too? don't you trust your ears? no high-level DAC manufacturer provides the measurements made with the AP Audio Analyzer and do you know why? because such measures count for nothing with the sound result. forget the technical data, rely on listening. I repeat that an exhaustive mathematical modeling able to describe the variables that come into play in the audio reproduction process is impossible to achieve, the reason is simple: the variables involved are superior to the equations that bind them and the system is indeterminate. |
I invite all followers of pseudoscience to view this object ... no measurement is reported ... so presumably it will have lower performance than Toppings
@batvac2 😂🤣😂🤣you make me laugh, are you a flat-earther? |
what you do or what you have has no value for me, what you are has value for me. the way you speak shows only ignorance, presumption and a huge ego. I tell you to Socrates, you should simply understand one thing, the more you know the more you know you don't know ... for the record, at the present time the Wadax is considered the best DAC on the world hi-end market |
but this preamp does not degrade your signal? how do you feel with listening to high resolution music? in particular can you hear the difference between listening to a CD or a Flac 24 bit 192 kHz? on the manufacturer's website the following values are reported: - Frequency response: 1Hz – 100KHz +/- 1 dB |
dear I asked you because before choosing the preamp I performed several tests using the components made available to me by various passionate friends like us. the most trivial was the comparison between DA005 + MC152 vs DA005 + M8sPRe + MC152 and obviously there was no comparison. the second was between Lumin U2 MINI + DA005 + MC152 vs DA005 + M8sPRe + MC152 and also in this case the level of details, the three-dimensionality, the dynamic range were in favor of the configuration with preamplifier (the LEEDH control was active) the third was between DA005 + C22 mkV + MC152 vs DA005 + M8sPRe + MC152 |
how it sounds ... beautifully, the M8sPRE is totally oversized in terms of the power section and output stage ... combined with its transparency (pure class A) and channel separation (dual mono) gave me some very strong emotions in listening. I live in Italy, if you happen to be on vacation I'll let you listen to it :-) in the meantime, I am sending you the updated photos of the plant
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Yesterday I modified a ridiculously expensive USB cable (it's the cable I used for the printer) by eliminating the power cord. I used it as a link from the iMac (with ROON) to the MUSETEC. I was amazed by the improvement made to the dynamics and clarity of the sound, I can perceive very clearly the differences between this cable and more 200 Euro USB cables with the +5V PIN present. I'll be modifying a premium USB cable tonight, I expect amazing results. I advise everyone to experiment with this modification, I await feedback and measures 😁😁😁 |
Sorry for the delay in replying, but I have yet to recover from the numerous auditory orgasms of listening to our MUSETEC with the Premium USB cable with the +5V PIN removed. I've tried them all, I strongly advise all DAC owners to make the same modification and evaluate the results themselves. I can confirm that the difference is substantial even using a ridiculous printer cable. the MUSETEC expresses maximum performance if connected directly via unpowered USB and when the temperature of the entire chassis exceeds 43°C seeing is believing! my DAC reaches that temperature after about 6 hours of use |
the same AMANERO is used in all DACs produced by AUDIOGD designed by the legendary KINGWA. as I have already written, to have the best possible USB connection it is necessary to remove the +5V PIN from the cable. I ASK ALL DA005 OWNERS TO TRY THIS MODIFICATION, YOU WILL THANK ME FOR THE RESULT OBTAINED |
I confirm that the cable that carries the +5v you have to unsolder it from both connectors (both type a and type b) otherwise it can work as an antenna and make the situation worse. further advice, you can connect the unsoldered cable to both the shield and the ground. if you have problems making the cable, I can do it for you for free |
Amir's tests leave the time they find, they are not science, they are baseless tests performed by a child who bought a signal analyzer and uses it as a toy. metaphorically it is as if Galileo, having his telescope of the time at his disposal, had stated that there are no distant planets because his instrument does not allow him to see them... I'm tired of talking about it again, they are bogus tests built ad hoc to sell low-level Chinese products. the MUSETEC MH-DA005 is perfect as it comes from the factory, all you need is a little care about the cables to be used and the quality of the power supply that is supplied to it. |