'"How about this. We setup your DAC and Streamer into an ADC and we setup my $250 computer into your DAC and into an ADC. Capture 9 tracks with one system. 1 track with the other. You can then analyze however you would like for as long as you like (you won't know which is which) and let us know which track is different from the other 9 and if it's the track from the $250 system or your streamer. "
While I applaud this contributors' apparent sincere effort to objectively test and verify his theory that there is no audible difference between technically competent ethernet cables when used in a Music Reproduction System, this proposed testing protocol is not valid for several reasons including the simple fact that it is not double-blind. There is no reason to attempt to invent a new scientifically valid listening test when the work towards that end has already been so expertly accomplished. A relatively simple ABX test can test this contributors' hypothesis with a high degree of scientific certainty that the outcome will be valid. I say "relatively simple" because of course you would need a proper ABX comparator and you would need to level-match the two signals to within a tight tolerance and you would need to provide a listening venue that would accommodate the listener but there is no need to do anything other than that and in fact any proposed alternative testing protocol would itself have to be established as scientifically valid which this proposed protocol would probably not be considered because it is so suspect on so many points. However this contributor is to be congratulated for at least trying to move this conversation towards a scenario that could yield a scientifically valid, repeatable test that would produce results that would carry a high level of certainty as to they're validity. While congratulations to him are indeed in order I must also caution that his strict enthusiasm for what he believes to be the obvious truth of his hypothesis strongly suggest that he suffers extreme bias in this instance and should be disqualified from formulating the test but could perhaps participate in the testing as an observer or contributor. There are experts in designing, planning, organizing, establishing, conducting, monitoring and evaluating blind testing protocols and that is who we should seek to be involved in this exploration the result of which cannot be established at this time with scientific certainty based on the facts now in evidence in this discussion. |
"It comes down to this there are more than double blind testing for discrimination elimination."
As a person with a studied familiarity with established and validated scientific testing protocols I am not familiar with the term discrimnation elimination? Would you please for the benefit of those you have engaged in this discussion define this term and how it applies to this discussion seeking to verify the audibility of differences if any among and between ethernet cables.
It is a common error made by those lacking in scientific discipline to underestimate and oversimplify the requirements needed to conduct statistically valid scientific testing irregardless of the discipline under consideration in this case the components that comprise a Music Reproduction System. While It may sound funny for me to assert this the simple truth is that any test itself must be independently verified as scientific and this must be done in advance of any testing of a hypothesis because otherwise the results are not valid.
As a professor of mine would oft-repeat a scientifically flawed or invalid test or a test conducted without the rigor necessary to insure its integrity is actually worse than no test at all and can lead to invalid conclusions and/or results that are not repeatable which by definition is an invalid test. There is a lot of literature in the scientific community and I encourage you to avail yourself of that literature so as to inform yourself what requirements you would need to test your hypothesis about cables. Also note that until such a test is conducted, reviewed, analyzed and studied your vocal assertion about ethernet cable is just a hypothesis and no more irregardless of your staunch convictions as to there verity of your beliefs.
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" I've made the point I wanted to make one way or the other. Enjoy spending through the nose for the placebo effect. "
Good for you you achieved what you set out to do that is just such a wonderful thing you must be so proud of yourself! |
" People that bluff their way through life will continue to bluff until called to account. Then the silence is deafening. "
Exactly and that is why those who came in here with there pile of Monopoly money trying to hustle up a little phoney audio test scam are probably gone for good it was obviously a scam anyway it didn’t take a genius to figure that out! It is the moderators who manage this group and it is obvious that they detected that this was a scam and that is why the posts have been deleted and I hope nobody lost any real money to this hustler. There are dangerous people seeking to get your money on the Internet! I would call this guy who tried this hustle a winkley-dinkler! |
Notice this person offering an e-z $20,000 hasn't posted there name or any other details this is like the Nigerian scam they are out to get your money identity personal information and access to your bank account and other personal data. I am sure that almost everyone here understands that but I am posting this info anyway. Most likely as I have already said it is a winkley dinkler juvenile posting from mommy's basement but even these kids can cause you harm. The best thing is to INGORE these trolls you put yourself at great peril if you seek to ingage with them walk away now! |
" I’m offering $10K. Someone else has matched for another $10,000. "
jinuku you have offered nothing at all you are a winkley dinkler this is such a scam that is why your posts keep getting deleted your just an anonymous troll but of course you are having fun playing with the adults in the room! |
It is now plain for all to see that the attentive moderators who expertly manage the discussions in this group have actively chosen to permanently delete jinjuku's numerous messages promoting the "10 to 1" odds scam that appeared designed to cheat $2,000 USD from the contributors to this forum and I just hope that none of the posters here lost any money or gave up any personal information to this winkley dinkler. Of course there are audible differences in various cables as has been repeatedly testified to in this very conversation from actual practical users. |
" Jinjuku has not cheated anyone."
I absolutely hope that you are completely correct in the simple assertion although I do not know how you can be certain that you are correct unless you yourself are jinjuku which of course on the Internet which is full of sockpuppets and outright deception is certainly possible! If it is true that you are correct that jinjuku did not cheat anyone then the diligent moderators who expertly manage this active group acted in time when they permanently deleted every post jinjuku made to promote his deliberate scam and if you do not see the accuracy of that I kindly invite you to contact the moderators and request that they restore the deleted posts which I do not think is something they will consider because they know the truth and so I suspect you do too!
I would add to this that if jinjuku’s proposal was NOT a scam then it should be reposted here with all of the pertinent information which is something the moderators would allow under the terms of use of this group provided it is NOT a scam but of course we all know better it was a SCAM! That's why it was deleted! |
I am not scamming anyone I am not asking anyone for money or asking them to reveal personal details as part of some scam to cheat them. If you think my posts here are a scam like jinjuku's then you should ingage the moderators in your belief so that they can thoroughly evaluate it and if they come to the same certain conclusion as they did with jinjuku then they will delete my posts here just as they did when they realized what jinjuku was up to. Shadorne it is beginning to look like you are jinjuku which is perfectly believeable because you keep defending someone who has been revealed to be a proved SCAM "artist" who used this group to cheat other people. |
"
Jinjuku presented a difference in opinion on the audibility of Ethernet cables and was actually willing to challenge others to test the differences "
Jinjuku was a SCAM that's why his posts were deleted by the moderators an obvious fact that you continue to ignore as you blame others here for your problems and HIS it is becoming increasingly apparent that you may very well be jinjuku and you seeking to gain personal information about the people in this group is also something he was trying to do with his 10 to 1 odds gambling ring! |
"
the posts referencing Jinjuiku's ethernet challenge being removed does not equate to the challenge being a scam "
It was OBVIOUSLY a scam that is why the experienced and knowledgeable moderators removed every reference to it and if it is NOT a scam then jinjuku can repost the challenge and this time include details to insure that it is NOT a scam but of course he will not do that because it was a way to cheat people. |
shadorne says "
Jinjuku has not had a single person take up his challenge."
Then you must be jinjuku or how else would you know that! This whole thing is a scam it is designed to cheat people out of there money and that is why the moderators have wisely decided to act and put a stop to it. |
" The offer is considered a wager and against the TOS. Normally I would
just rescind the $2000 and travel expense paid by you requirement. This
would put me back into compliance of the TOS but I'm not going to come
out of pocket to basically perform what would be tantamount to smack
down because that is how it's going to go."
You are too funny it was a SCAM and that is why it was deleted and if it is not a SCAM you could proceed based on what you are saying here by "rescinding" the $2,000 requirement which you say you would "normally" do which is a way of saying you've done this before which I do not believe and I do not believe you have the money to back up your claim either you are as I have stated previously a winkly dinkler there is nothing you have posted here that is true you are trying to execute a SCAM and that is pretty obvious to everyone here except shadorne who has been exposed as one of your sockpuppets. |
shadorne says "
For the record I am not jinjuku... "
Sorry you already slipped up and let it out that you are jinjuku who has been determined by this group's experienced moderators to be a SCAMMER. |
dynaquest4 says " If clearthink says it was a scam,
by God it must be. "
The determination of a SCAM was by this groups moderators and not by me that is why the posts by jinjuku were deleted also dynaquest4 was if I recall correctly also involved with the SCAM by claiming to put up money in the cable challenge so it's clear that dynaquest, jinjuku, and shandorne (same person) are all involved with this scam in one way or another although it is true that dynaquest may not have realized it was a scam he was getting involved with. |
dynaquest says "
I will ignore him heretofore. "
I do not think you know what heretofore means dynaquest because it make's no sense in this context you are just another of the extremely confused, disoriented, winkly dinklers in this thread very much of which has been all about a scam that the knowledgeable moderators have wisely chosen to delete many of the posts in that were part of the scam and increasingly you and shandorne and jujinku all seem to be the same sockpuppets talking to each other.
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