Hi Tmsorosk,
As mentioned above by others, control is a function of an amplifier, but there is no doubt that High sensitivity speakers typically show the dynamics and control of an amplifier easier. As far as grip and control. I am using a 86db, 4 ohm speaker, it is fast and accurate. I have had speakers as high as 97db 8 ohm, they required much less amplifier to have the speed and transients that I believe that you are referring to as control. |
Tmsorosk, Please rephrase your question so that we are all clear.
High efficiency: Legacy, Klipsch, VMPS... Which one does not have control with the right amp?
Or was it Low Efficiency? |
Tmsorosk,
It looks like you have answered your own question. When listening to high sensitivity speakers your friends were using low powered tubed amps. We have all talked all around your question.There are some tubed amps with very good control, but many low powered amps, even though they play adequate and at times good bass, often they don't have the control of higher powered tubes or most solid state amps. It is typically not caused by a well designed speaker. Tim |
Hi Mapman,
I am currently using a very highly modified old Pure Class A Sumo Nine. I am using it on 86db 4 ohm speakers and have used it on 97db 8 ohm speakers as well as a few others, I have heard nothing but excellent bass in weight, speed and control from this amplifier. I see no reason that most well designed solid state amplifiers could not give good bass on most speakers, there are exceptions of course (kappa 9 comes to mind). Good tubed amps also do a great job as long as the speakers load stays out of the capacitive region (neutral to inductive load). |
Hi Mapman, Speakers and amps are both very subjective. I'm sure that one guy would tell you his amp sounds good on about anything and another guy would say, I've heard that amp and it sounds like crap, same with speakers.
I don't recall ever seeing 2 different systems being compared as even very close, much less exactly the same. I have seen reviews where 2 amps or preamps or even speakers were very close and shared characteristics. So, I'll take your last question as a statement and agree. If they sound different, each individual will have to prefer one over the other. |
Hi Weseixas,
I'm not sure your last statement is entirely true. Maybe if you mean bass down to 20hz, but I have used a couple of different 15's that get you down to near 30hz that did a great job, with sensitivity ratings of 97 & 99.
Both were several years ago, it may be true today, but I'd be surprised that there are no good Hi Sensitivity drivers at all today.
Tim |
Hi Wes,
Well after I wrote, I searched my memory long and hard, You are correct, but absolutely wrong. I recall one was an Audax pro 15. 101 sensitivity, Fs was around 23, but qts was something like .2, we added a fair amount of mass which drove the fs down to around 19 or 20 and qms changed enough that qts was around .32... Sensitivity was still in the very high 90's. I'm not exact on numbers, but I'm not off by much. So, yes we modified the woofer, it wasn't stock, But your statement of "no way" it worked fine without eq compensation. I don't recall the exact model, but it was a PR380 series... Take a look, then say "ok way".
Tim |
Read what I said, Low 30's, High 90's.... I called my old partner, he recalled 3db down @ 34 & finished sensitivity of 98...
Also, if I recall, their were about 15 or twenty models in the PR380, resonances from 19 to 50 and final qts of .15 to .67, all had sensitivity of 97 to 103.
I assume the way you speak that you have had a fair amount of speaker manufacturing experience yourself, So What happens when you add mass to a driver?
Especially one with that motor structure.
By the way, the old Audax site still has archives, in french, but if you really feel the need to continue the challenge, they are there. |
Wes, yes you read a bit of attitude from me.
The 500 hZ statement was added by you, I don't recall just how
Far it was capable of, but I crossed it at 400. I took issue with you
Proposing that it was clearly not possible for the driver to perform
As I had claimed, when in fact it did. Even when I gave you the part
Series, you challenged that it would be easy enough to model.
Sorry for short & abrupt typing, I am out of town typing on my phone |
Hi Ralph,
Its been some years since I've looked at field coils. How did they solve the huge dc resistance numbers?
Tim |
Hi Unsound,
Its all perception my friend.
I think of low as 82 to 86
mid as 87 to 91
mid-high as 92 to 94
high as 95 +
Thats just me, I can see others not considering a mid high, but in the past, I've been aske say about 93db in sensitivity, is this normal or high. I've always said
"Well, its really mid to high"
Or is 87 really mid-low? Who really knows. |
Hi Duke,
Not overly important, but your last post was responding to Lewhite.
Tim |
Hi Duke,
Well after you got my attention by putting my handle in your post, I read your post thoroughly. I see your point completely and can see this happening, but won't that same speaker create frequency dips in some rooms? and/or do you recommend this speaker for certain types of rooms or placement? |
Hi Duke,
This all makes sense, back in my old days at SpeakerCraft/Marcof, we made a line speakers called Rock Boxes, We didn't call it thermal compression, but we did talk a fair amount about voice coil temperature rising and increased resistance. So in short, my guess seemed correct that you teach how to use your speakers to get the most out of room interaction with their placement. In my current speakers, an mtm, they are mirror imaged. I rear ported the ports in at an angle for the sole purpose of experimenting with how the speakers would react to room interaction. It clearly makes a difference. Not a world different from making a low qtc in a sealed box design to properly interact with a room. Obviously alot tougher with a ported box, but I love the variable port idea.
Thanks for your thoughts and good listening, Tim |
Hi Guys,
A question for a couple of you hard core amp guru's. I have and have seen you guys here mainly discussing Damping factor. In the past, I have also looked at how an amplifier slew's. Is this no longer a factor in todays amplifier designs? Slew rate/Input/Output? |
