Ethernet Cables, do they make a difference?

Yes, they make a difference, but not because “bits is bits”.  The last meter, I have been told, improves EMI rejection. Regardless of the science, I hear a difference. 

That is not the point. Ethernet cable can impact in two ways:  (1) reducing EMI interference; and (2) the connections. If it was impossible, period, the good Ethernet cables, from Cardas, Wireworld and Audioquest, would not improve the sound quality.  They do.  Period. You may not believe speaker cables and interconnects improve the sound quality, but the do. Period.

That is the scientific method. How many DACs have you designed, manufactured and sold? Bel Canto Design is a top brand, and the Black System is one of the best ever. Check Stereophile.  

@kosst_amojan

“.... unsubstantiated claims you can't back up with any evidence.”

The scientific method is to develop a theory and then test it. The engineer who designed my Bel Canto Black EX DAC developed the theory – Ethernet cables from the wall mount to the Black EX DAC make a difference in sound quality – and I tested it. He tested it. His theory is correct.

I think your response suffers from the Dunning-Kruger effect. I think John Stronczer may be more of an authority on this issue.

The Oxford Dictionaries Online defines the scientific method as "a method or procedure that has characterized natural sciencesince the 17th century, consisting in systematic observation, measurement, and experiment, and the formulation, testing, and modification of hypotheses".[1]

@grm. Good test. You may want to try a Cardas, AudioQuest or Wireworld Ethernet cable. They run around $200. If the one you buy fails the test, sell it here on Audiogon. 

All I am suggesting is that you try it in your own home in your own system. If you have not tried it, keep your uninformed opinions to yourself. I, for example, would be reluctant to express an opinion on a car I have not driven.  I would, however, listen carefully to the opinions from the automobile’s chief design engineer. 

I am hearing that they do not want to try it because, they are so well qualified, they know it will not make a difference. 

@kosst_amojan 
I asked you a simple question:  how many streaming DACs have you designed, manufactured and sold?  Dunning-Kruger effect. 

I took my advice from the engineer who designed and manufactures the Bel Canto Black EX DAC. He made the suggestion that I should try a high-quality Ethernet cable, I was skeptical, I tried it and it increased the sound quality. He was right.

No answer? How about another simple question: have you tested your premise that a high-quality Ethernet cable makes no difference on a high-end streaming DAC?

Do you own a streaming DAC?

In the field of psychology, the Dunning–Kruger effect is a cognitive bias wherein people of low ability have illusory superiority, mistakenly assessing their cognitive ability as greater than it is. The cognitive bias of illusory superiority derives from the metacognitive inability of low-ability persons to recognize their own ineptitude; without the self-awareness of metacognition, low-ability people cannot objectively evaluate their actual competence or incompetence.

kosst_amojan

This is John Stronzer's answer based on real science:

Mark my research into the impact of the Ethernet cable for the last run into the audio system focused on radiated energy. Given that the Ethernet signal is packetized with packet rates on the order of 100-150kHz this relatively low frequency can result in considerable radiated energy into power, speaker and interconnect cables. I measured a very large 130kHz radiated energy spike on a typical stock Ethernet cable and on a good quality audio grade cable this spike was non-existent. The kind of improvement I hear from the ethernet cable is similar to that from good power conditioning and power cables. It seems to effect the noise floor of a high resolution system.

I do NOT think that anything to do with bit errors or jitter is at play here.

We use completely asynchronous resampling of the digital date from the ethernet interface-using our internal ultra-low phase noise master clocks. (there are actually several stages of resampling in the EX DAC)

Bit errors, if they occur, cause noticeable dropouts and interruption of the music. Not subtle degradation as would result from radiated noise.

If those smarter than me do not want to at least accept the theory of this kind of effect then Too Bad…

I approach these issues as an engineer, I certainly did not WANT to hear an improvement from an expensive audio grade ethernet cable, but I did and do and did some research into the why of this.

Best regards,

John Stronczer

Founder

Bel Canto Design

@acepilot71 Are you baiting me? The ethernet cable connects directly into the Bel Canto Black EX and directly into the PS Audio DirectStream through the Bridge II.

These DACs use a Digital to Analog Converter to convert digital to analog…unbelievable but true.

For those interested in real world results, read "Ethernet Cables - Yes I’m going there… I was a skeptic and I was wrong" on the PS Audio Forum.

https://forum.psaudio.com/t/ethernet-cables-yes-im-going-there-i-was-a-skeptic-and-i-was-wrong/4393/10

There are similar theads on the PS Audio Formum with the same result.

OMG, Ted Smith, the designer of the PS Audio DirectStream, agrees that ethernet cables do make a difference.  I will bet Steve Nugent will agree.  Both great product BTW.

kosst_amojan has not tested his theory.  He has not designed a streaming DAC, apparently does not own one, and has never tested his theory, although he has "dug around inside of them."  Often wrong, but never uncertain.

@david_ten

I own and am comparing the Wireword Starlight Cat8 and the Cardas Ethernet cables.  I also compared them against the Cat6 in the wall.  (The installer cut and terminated two one meter cables from the reel.)

@acepilot71. Ok. I am discussing an Ethernet input in the back panel of the DAC, and the Ethernet cable from the wall to the DAC.  Check out the cover of the April 2018 Stereophile. 

@acepilot71 I do not own the integrated. I own the Black EX DAC and EX amp. I doubt there is much difference as far as the Ethernet input goes. 

@acepilot71  Does your DAC have an Ethernet input?  I am not addressing TOS Link or USB. 

@kosst_amojan. Once again, self-proclaimed expert with an untested theory, knows more than the engineers who designed the very best DACs. Nothing will convince him, and I mean nothing, because he refuses to test it.  He is too intellectually dull to understand the level of his own incompetence. He is not an expert. 

@kosst_amojan  also will not reveal the brand and model of his MQA-certified, Roon-ready DAC with an Ethernet input. Without owning such a DAC, he cannot physically test his theory. 

John Stronczer provided the explanation, and you prefer to ignore it.

@geoffkait. You are not interested in an explanation. 

@geoffkait   My apologies 

The next step is galvanic isolation. 

https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/improving-streaming-sq