Anyone listen to Zu Audio's Definition Mk3?

Is the rear firing bass array replaced with the downward firing sub?

I received my MK4s 10 days ago. I started with the 1.5, graduated to the 2.0, and now the 4.0. As much as I liked the Def2s, the 4s are a totally different speaker. The only similarities are in size (virtually identical to the 2.0) and looks.

The engineering is amazing. (1) The integrated amplifier can be unscrewed and popped out for service if necessary. (2) Similarly for the bass driver. (3) The aluminum base that supports the downward-firing bass driver is a work of art. (4) The Neutrik Speakon connector preserves the geometry of the cabling and accommodates a selection of connectors for each different type of speaker termination. (5) Bass can be tuned to the individual room. Etc. Everything has been thoroughly thought out.

The highs and lows are more extended. Deep organ notes are palpable (when appropriate). Resolution is better, but the sound is also smoother, more organic, and even a little more dynamic. The soundstage is deep and wide even though they are within 4" of the back wall. Off-axis imaging is amazing; maybe it is the way that Sean set them up on my 24' long wall, but the image does not change whether I am between the speakers, sitting in front of one of them, or standing against one of the side walls. And yet, everything that I liked about the Mk2s is still there. The sound easily fills my living room and the main living space of my house without a change in tone or quality when I am in a different room. I have listened for hours without any fatigue. Truly amazing.

As I recall, Zu used split tuning of the four rear firing drivers. While it might have had advantages with that particular configuration, it does not compare to the new single downward firing driver.

The great off-axis imaging (it really does not matter where i sit or stand) as well as the ability to position the 4s within inches of the rear wall were unexpected benefits.

If you have any questions such as the issue of connectors, talk to someone at Zu. They are very good about answering such questions. FYI. . .

If for some reason you do not want to change the banana plugs, there are banana plug-to-spade adapters/converters. I used them with my Def 2s. The new termination scheme of the Def 4s is more flexible so I no longer need them ... if you are interested.

I, too, am curious about what Phil has to say. But to me, the Def 4s are a major step up. Even though they look and are sized like the Def 2s (a look that I like and a size that I can live with), everything is new. Here is an embelished version of what I wrote at the end of October after getting my Def 4s 10 days previously. I have not changed my opinion. . .

The engineering is amazing. (1) The integrated amplifier can be unscrewed and popped out for service if necessary. (2) Similarly for the bass driver. (3) The aluminum base that supports the downward-firing bass driver is a work of art. (4) The Neutrik Speakon connector preserves the geometry of the cabling and accommodates a selection of connectors for each different type of speaker termination. (5) Bass can be tuned to the individual room and is better integrated and more tight, articulate, and palpable with the down-firing sub vs the rear-firing, split-tuned array. Etc. Everything has been thoroughly thought out.

The highs and lows are more extended. Deep organ notes are palpable (when appropriate). Resolution is better, but the sound is also smoother, more organic, and even a little more dynamic. The soundstage is deep and wide even though they are within 4" of the back wall. Off-axis imaging is great; maybe it is the way that Sean set them up on my 24' long wall, but the image does not change very much whether I am between the speakers, sitting in front of one of them, or standing against one of the side walls. And yet, everything that I liked about the Mk2s is still there. The sound easily fills my living room and the extended 45' long main living space of my house without a change in tone or sound quality when I am in a different room. I have listened for hours without any fatigue.

Then the bass will be superior - tighter, deeper, more articulate.

I love my piano black. Actually, I rather like the light reflections in the daytime and don't use them for video. Maintenance has not been a problem.

While I cannot comment on the practice of the sub bass downfiring into the floor, I think that there is an advantage of a single sub vs the rear-firing, split-tuned array in terms of articulation and cohesiveness. It also allows me to position the Def 4s close to the rear wall. Plus, Sean told me that this approach is a lot less time consuming and less costly to manufacture.

I agree with both Phil's and Musicxyz's comments that CDs just seem to sound better - more enjoyable, engaging, etc. Like Phil, I am listening to CDs that I have ignored for years. It is not just resolution, detail, and extension. . . it is that they just sound better.

Neither Phil nor Musicxyz commented on the other advantages of the Def 4s. . . the off-axis listening (it was not very good with the Def 1.5s, it was a little better with the Def 2s, it is a lot better with the Def 4s) and the way the sound seems to fill space (it is a big sound without being a loud sound).

I am curious whether Phil thinks that the Def 4s require as much power as the Def 2s to sound their best.

Regarding power conditioning. . . Do you use power conditioning on your Def 4 plate amps as well as the front end electronics?

Thanks

I agree with Phil about Def 4 vs Def 2 break-in. With the cavear that my Def 4s had more than the usual break-in and play time before I received them in October, they have changed very little since then. By contrast the Def 2s evolved over the course of 9-10 months. . . if not longer.

I have the gloss black. To me it is the most sophisticated of the black finishes. You should also consider whether to leave the aluminum natural or have it anodized.

The gloss black is very easy to maintain. After almost 6 months, no issues. But I live alone - no kids or pets - and am careful with my things.

This is a matter of personal taste. Obviously. Given my decor, I never considered anything other than black. I love the elegance of gloss black including the surface reflections, but admit that it is very unforgiving. I deal with fingerprints and smudges by not touching the speakers. Other than a light dusting, no one has touched my Def 4s since Sean positioned them last October.

I echo what Spirit says. While I have no experience with Zu's Canadian distributor, I have had years of experience with Sean and the rest of Zu; and they are a total class act. I first bought Def1.5s using the 60 day home trial period and have since upgraded to the Def2s and now the Def4s. Like you, I wanted to hear Zu speakers in a store first. However, the converse is that hearing speakers in a store does not tell you how they will sound at home. (I have certainly had the latter experience.) If you want to contact Zu, the best way is through their website: www.zuaudio.com

There are few dealers since Zu prefers to sell direct. However, one dealer "relatively" close to Toronto is near Buffalo:

AudioFeil International
9405 Meriul Lane
Clarence Center, NY 14032
USA
716-400-6177

Bill Feil (the proprietor of Audiofeil) was very helpful when I bought my first pair of Zu Defs. However, you need to call him in advance. Good Luck.

Like Phil (and unlike Glory's comment), I have nothing but positives to say about my Def 4s. . . now in their 8th month. The only downside is that I am now buying way too much music.

Although I have not tried a 45 or 2a3 with the Zu Def 4s, I did try both with my Zu Def 2s and agree with Phil. I eventually found them restrictive and too much of a compromise.

Charles - yes, the 300b was noticeably "better" in my set-up. However, I have a huge space to fill, very long speaker cable runs (they are buried under the floor), and the Ancient Audio 300b seems to be a bit over-built. I enjoyed both the 45 and 2a3 amps, but they seemed strained.

Each of us has priorities. My personal goal was great music through a two channel audio system within a pre-specifiec budget and in a room that was designed primarily for aesthetics (furniture, artwork, etc) and general livability (off-axis listening) and not designed primarily for audiophilia. I also selected components for aesthetics as well as for sound, hid wires behind cabinetry and under the floors, etc.

Could it be improved by room treatments? Perhaps. But these room treatments would necessarily affect the visual appeal of the room; and this is a compromise that is not acceptable - to me, at least.

I think that my Def 4s in piano black with the "silver" trim are perfect for the aesthetics of my living room. On another note, even though I have had my Def 4s since October, they continue to evolve; and the recent changes are substantial. Sean says that "they" have similar observations back in Ogden - which is why Zu has increased the in-house break-in period to 600 hours.

Beyond what Phil mentions (and, admitedly, this may be peculiar to my set-up) is that off-axis listening is markedly better with Def 4s. Plus they can be placed closer to the back wall.

Although I have neither seen nor heard the Dominance, it is twice the footprint, 25% taller, and 250% the volume of the Def 4s. Not insignificant for real-world applications.

I briefly (very briefly!) flirted with the idea of Dominance before my upgrade to Def 4s. However, Dominance was too visually imposing, the size was simply unacceptable, and I am not that committed to "domestic high fidelity music reproduction." Conversely, the Def 4s look right, are properly sized for a normal living environment, have a look and finish that are excellent and perfect for my decor, and I am more than satisfied with the sound. Plus there is this black and white photograph that I covet . . .

My Def 4s sit only a couple of inches from the back wall - closer to the back wall than my previous Def 2s that were out about a foot. (Zu positioned both pairs without my input.) Given a 12" square footprint and a near wall position, Def 4s are as room-friendly as I could want.

Another reason that I nixed Dominance is that I have a single pair of speaker wires that run under my floor - down one wall, through the cellar and up the opposite wall. The electronics are on the opposite side of the room from the speakers. It would be almost impossible to set up Dominance with this arrangement.

I am with Gopher on this one. . . shiny, gloss, piano black. Somehow when paired with the aluminum trim, it seems elegant rather than "common."

My speaker wires terminate as banana plugs. The connections with the Def 2s were always tenuous. These are more secure.

Morganc and Sean are correct. My Def 4s get better and better even though I have had them for almost a year. Granted, they only get played on weekends and even then are not driven hard; however, there is a smoothness that emerges only with time. I also suspect that some of the factory burn-in may "revert" with long shipping distances especially on an airplane where the cargo hold temperature can be cold.

Sean set up my Def 4s. They are on the long wall, about 11-12 feet apart, angled in about 30 degrees, and within only a couple of inches from the back wall. One of my goals was to optimize off-axis listening, maximize the way that the speakers project the music, etc. - since I do not have a center listening position.

Not to divert the thread, but those of you who use 300b amps, should check out the Takatsuki 300b tubes that are made in Japan. Pricey, but amazing.

One other comment based on Phil's obervation about break-in. . . . in my experience, the Def 4s continue to evolve in a positive direction for months . . . even though they undergo prolonged factory break-in before shipping.

The Def 4s evolve over months, not days or weeks. It is necessary to be patient.

Phaelon - no offense, but I do not understand your statement that "one of the things I’m taking away from the above posts is that a primary virtue of these speakers is that they play loud." They have tremendous tone and dynamics and presence. They play big, but they do not play loud unless you crank up the volume. Yes, they are capable of loud volumes, but I never listen at loud volumes; and at night and weekend mornings I listen at low volumes. Yet, they still have the same tone, and they still have presence without being played loud. They do have a long break-in period, and they do take months to evolve. I have a 300b SET, and it is simply sweet.

I agree with Morganc about the marketing issues. . . that Zu tries to differentiate themselves from other vendors using their choice of music. Whenever Sean Casey has been at my house, I have played only acoustic music - jazz, vocals, some classical - at very modest levels; and the sound never lacks for tone or dynamics. Actually, I never crank my Def 4s; I have an aversion to music being played loud just for the sake of loud. I have an open-plan house; while the primary listening space is at one end of the 45' x 25' x 16'(high) volume, my goal in selecting speakers was to be able to fill this space with music without having to crank the volume. I wanted speakers that could project.

Schw06. . . What spikes do you and other Altanta Def 4s use?

I cannot compare the Def 4s to the Def 1.5s; but compared to the Def 2s, the Def 4s have bass that is both more taught and more visceral.