Amp and Preamp for JM Lab Alto Utopias

Would the newer Krell Evolution amps be a better combination with the Focals than the older Krells? Though I know they get extremely hot, I've heard such good things about the Atma-spheres that I might consider the trade-off. Would they be an appropriate match for the Altos? I'm also considering some Mcintosh gear. Will the MC275s go low enough? Otherwise, I might go with Mac solid state.

Thanks for the suggestions, Dob. I've seriously considered investing in a good integrated Class D amp just for the summers, and I was thinking about a Rowland. I'm not sure that Rowland is as good a match for my speakers for most of the year though.

Thanks very much for the reply, Phaelon. The speakers were a bit close together at my old apartment, but I recently moved into a new house, and have a dedicated listening room that does much better justice to the speakers. The old space was L-shaped and the listening position was wider than the location of the equipment. I will soon post better pics.

I very much appreciate your comment. Thanks.

Indeed, Tom. Indeed. Things just kind of fell in that direction. This purchase will start a whole new process of getting a high quality phono stage and a new SACD player later next year. After that, I plan to be done for a long, long while. Anyway, I will certainly let you know how it all sounds when it get it delivered in a few months.

Yes, I like the idea of high quality integrated amplifiers as well. Thanks for the recommendation. I've been reading on this amplifier and it looks like it's basically the same components and circuitry of the separate preamp and amp combined into one box with slightly reduced power supplies. Have you heard the ASR Emitter II? How would that one compare to the GamuT? I'd love to try the DarTZeel, but it's well out of my price range right now.

Probably not. Difficult to do these kinds of things over here, but if I don't like it, they'd probably let me return it. Although I should say that returning it would be quite an ordeal where I live.

This one might work. I see online that the newer Accustic Arts amps were auditioned with Nova Utopia speakers. This is apparently a very clear and transparent amp. I might take the plunge. This one is incredibly cheap for such a massive beast.

I wanted to add, but I was limited by space, that I would prefer an amp that runs reasonably cool as the summers where I live are quite humid and hot. Anything that turns the room into a furnace in the summertime is pretty much out of the question (though in the winter I could see it being a welcome addition!).

Paul, you are the second person to have written me recommending Accuphase. I"m going to have to seriously consider this. I got a private email prior to your post here. In Seoul, Korea, where I live, Accuphase is not too badly priced either. I could easily start with an amp like the P-7100 and build my way from there using local dealers. I'm not sure I can get the class A amps over here. I read your other posts about listening to the lower powered Accuphase amps in Class A with B&W. I'm intrigued to say the least.

Phaelon, you have hit me with something I've never previously heard about. I didn't know anything about Neodio prior to your recommendation. I will look into them. As far as my price range--about 10-15 grand used. I can continue to use the Tri-Vista 300 as a preamp while I build my system again if I were to start with a power amp. Later, I'm probably going to have to replace the Tri-Vista because the preamp inputs in the back are disintegrating. We have terribly humid weather in Seoul, and it can be particularly hard on plastic and rubber. i've pretty much loved everything about the Tri-Vista except for the build, which is partly why I haven't been on the Audiogon much over the past five years--too busy listening to music. I feel that for me the Tri-Vista has been a great sounding amp. I just wish they used better parts in the construction. It looks great on the outside and much of the inside, but currently three of the six RCA inputs are unusable because the plastic inserts that go into the RCA jacks have completely fallen apart. I will try to repair these down the road, but the RCA jacks on these as well as lot of more inexpensive gear are cheaply constructed. Except for that, I'm not sure a lot of other amps better the Tri-Vista to my ears. I've heard a fair number already of both integrated and separates, though much remains to be heard.

I greatly appreciate all of these recommendations. Thank you.

Well, that's nice I'm sure, but I'm not looking to change speakers. There are probably better speakers than the Altos, even in the Focal line. I've heard really great speakers outside my own, including the MBLs and the Magico Q7s, which I heard at an audio show this weekend. I've also heard the Audio Machina speakers, which impressed me a great deal. But the reason I started this thread was to get recommendations for better amplification. If I were to switch speakers at this point it would be for a good value pair of the earlier JM Lab Utopias, which are priced right locally. But that may be more of a lateral move rather than an improvement. I'm happy with what I have. My next move will be a higher grade SACDP and then I'm off the search for a long while.

Thanks Paul for the suggestions. I'll look into the Accuphase gear when I have a chance, but unlike a lot of folk on the Audiogon, this will be my last purchase for many years. I'm a university professor on a decent but certainly not an extravagant income. Investing in a good ventilation system is a nice but impractical idea here. We don't have duct work in Korea. Heating is radiated through the floor and people use space air conditioning rather than central air. Buildings are constructed of concrete. The problem in Korea isn't just summertime heat. We also get 100% humidity. We have torrential rains for months at a time, and homes accumulate mold and mildew. It's really a dreadful climate those times of the year. And we all live on top of each other. Houses here are built a mere few feet from each other. That's what it's like in a city of 12 million and a metro area of 23 million. Like Dan D'Agostino, I don't listen to a lot of music during the summer for that reason. I'd love to try the Nova Utopias. Getting them into my listening room on the second floor of my house, though, is an ordeal I don't need. The Altos are good enough for me. In fact, to my ears and apropos my taste, I haven't heard better. Xenakis' La Legende d'Eer and Otomo Yoshihide sound superb on these speakers, better than on any other in my tests.

I think if I can use balanced interconnects rather than RCAs for the most part, I should be mostly fine. I'm sure Accuphase will do fine in this climate as you suggest.

Paul, in case you might know, what's the reception of the ASR Emitter in the Netherlands? Have you heard it? How would you compare it to the Accuphase if you had?

Thanks again for the all the advice and suggestions.

Best,

Bill

I lived for 15 years in South Dakota and spent plenty of time in Minnesota as well. I'll take the summer climate of the upper midwest over this one in a heartbeat. ;-)

Paul, I'm sure that Emitter is cheaper than the Accuphase by a considerable margin in Europe because of the difference in import versus domestic costs.

I did finally visit the shop that has Accuphase for sale on their website. However, they don't have any in their show room and they told me that the brand is not well known or well sold in Korea.

I did however get an offer on a used Accustic Arts AMPII-AC, which, while I didn't get a chance to hear (it's an enormous amp that would have been difficult to hook up at the time of my visit), did impress me very much visually. I've heard very good things about the Accustic Arts amplifiers, and this one is being sold for a song. There's an accompanying Acoustic Research Reference 2 preamp also at a very, very reasonable price. Any thoughts about this combo? I'm seriously considering it because of the price. The Accustic Arts amp runs at about 250 watts in an 8 ohm load while doubling down as the impedance drops.

I imagine the Devialet would be a good fit. Too bad they aren't distributed locally. Since I've purchased the ASR units, I'm done for now.

Thanks Paul. I will try to at least listen to the amp once before I make a purchase. It was difficult to do at that time as there was only one gentlemen in the shop and moving a 55 kg amp to the listening room would have been difficult for him. Believe me, I won't be transporting my speakers downtown for an examination. It was difficult enough getting them up the second floor of my new house--a four man job!

I'm totally onboard with the issue of synergy. I more than anyone want this purchase to be the right one--it might well be my last one actually. My wife won't tolerate too much more audiophilia nervosa. ;-)

I visited the electronics market today and managed to see a slightly older ASR Emitter used--five years old. It was 12 million won (roughly about 10,500 USD). This one had some cosmetic issues--a few nicks in the front and some mild scratching on the top, probably from having other amplification resting on top of it a the shop. Nothing was hooked up, but the manager promised me that if I called in advance next time, he would set up the equipment for me to hear. he also happens to have a pair of the older Utopia speakers (first series) for the same price. Incredibly cheap for this city, but it's a buyer's market right now. The high end is not doing very well in this economic climate.

I can see that while having an acrylic chassis might help to lower the noise floor and improve the sound, it is very susceptible to scratching and nicking. The power supply boxes were also slightly rusted around the screws. Not the nicest looking Emitter I've seen but having a chance to hear it with the older Utopias should be a real treat. I'm also wondering if it might be worth my while to trade in the Altos for these older Utopias, considering the incredibly low price at the moment. I was impressed with my last experience listening to the Utopias, but I'm probably too attached to the Beryllium tweeters on the Altos.

While I was working my way around the audio shops, I also saw a MF KW 750 used. yet another good option to consider though I'm sure this one is a bit more pricey. Plenty of old Levinson gear lying around as well. I like the detail of the Levinson amps I've heard.

Paul, I don't know the price of the KW 750 used. I mentioned the prices of two items: The ASR Emitter, which is not the exclusive version and came some time before the exclusive as well. I'd guess around 2003 or so. I also mentioned the price of the Utopias. I said these prices were quite reasonable for this country. I mention the KW also because as you noted before, the MF gear matches well with my speakers and if I couldn't find a decent replacement for the Tri-Vista, something like that might be an option. In fact, I don't plan to buy the KW 750. If I am going to replace the Tri-Vista (which is my plan), it will very likely be another brand.

I can't find an Accuphase amp anywhere in any of the shops I've passed by. While Japan might be very close to Korea, that doesn't mean that all high end audio from Japan makes it here readily. Keep in mind also that Japan and Korea do not have the best relations historically. Marantz has a strong presence, but I prefer their digital players over their amps. I appreciate your enthusiasm for Accuphase, but I'll let my own ears be the judge here if it's possible for them to be. I completely agree with you on the build quality of the Tri-Vista. The build comes far short of the sound quality sorry to say.

These Utopia speakers (the ones between the Grande and Mezzo) are in excellent shape from what I could see. I've very much enjoyed the Altos, but I'm going to consider the possibility of a change if I like them as much as the last time I heard them. But they'll also have to accommodate my music as well. It will also depend on whether the seller will give me a good price on the trade and of course be willing to trade.

Actually, the local brands in Korea are April Music, Emille, and Tone Audio. I like all of them quite well, but I think they're overpriced here. The prices are rather like those of the imported gear, but that's because in this country price is always associated with quality even if the prices could be lower. April Music produces good, mid to hi-fi gear at lower power. Emille and Tone produce tube amps. At a recent show and using the B&W 802Ds, I thought the Emilles sounded very nice but a bit polite. The Tone Audio 90 watt tube integrated did quite well on the B&W 800D speakers but not as well as their more pricey separates. The integrated was getting a good workout and held out pretty well considering the heavy demands of the speakers being driven.

Hello Again,

I've been living with the ASR for over a month now. My first impression was not good. The combination did not seem to match well. Unlike with the MF Tri-Vista, this combination led to rather harsh high frequencies of the kind one often hears in complaints about the beryllium line. I shut everything down and worried a bit while I travelled for about five weeks. While I was away, I thought about perhaps making a change on the high frequency compensation dip switches. For this I needed a long allen wrench in order to get to the screws through the heat sinks. I picked up a set of those at Ace. When I came back home, I removed the top acrylic glass piece and moved the switches to the 2 position. This completely changed and vastly improved the sound. Now I was getting a bit more of the smoothness I was enjoying with the Tri-Vista but without the harshness of the high frequencies. While I was finishing my purchase of the ASR Emitter, I also purchased a used Basis Exclusive phono amp. Unfortunately, this somewhat earlier version of the phono amp is only MC, so I had to get another cartridge and won't be able to use many of the nice MM cartridges I picked up thanks to Raul's enlightening thread. After fiddling with all the dip switches in that machine a couple of times, I can now say I'm getting the sound I really like. The ASR Emitter is incredibly detailed with an enormous soundstage pinpoint imaging and bass that absolutely rocks the house down. Anyone who says the Altos are bass shy should hear them with this amp (adjustments of course necessary). This amplifier is far, far superior to the MF Tri-Vista, which wasn't a bad amp in its own right, pretty good in fact. But compared to the ASR, it's polite, relaxed, rather recessed, and limited in bass response.

I'm quite happy now with this amp, and I can see I'll be using it for a long time, assuming it stays healthy. My one major concern is that I may at some point have to replace the battery in the battery operated power supply and that might be a bit of an undertaking, but considering the improvements I'm hearing over and above an already pretty good quality amp, it will be worth it.

Thanks once again, one and all, for the helpful recommendations. The final stage in this particular portion of the quest will be the higher quality SACDP, probably a step up in the Esoteric family of gear.

I will attempt to get the Tri-Vista repaired and hopefully fine tuned at the MF facility in England for hopefully resale or if I can't get a decent figure for it, I'll use it in a second system as a backup.

Thanks for the info, Phaelon. I'm going to give it some consideration, and of course the seller would have to be open to a trade. Not a given by any stretch in this country.

Well, I noticed today that the seller of the Accustic Arts amp had dropped the price by a thousand over the 400 he had already cut. I figured I better make my move, but sadly, I was beaten to it. Sold. I'll have to look into some other options once again. That's life.

Thanks Paul for the rundown. There's a Gryphon amp in my voltage for sale on the Audiogon that I'm considering. I'm also considering Macs for their reliability as well as ease of repair over here. I could buy a pair of Pass 100.5 amps as well. Most of these purchases would have to be online. Prices of new equipment here with the import and shipping charges are exorbitant. Like the Altos, I will have to buy used. Naturally, I prefer colder running amps due to climate, but I can probably work with warmer ones for about ten months out of the year. I think I'm going to pass on the local Emitter due to age and cosmetic issues. This one came out before the 2005 upgrades, and I don't think I'll bother wasting the dealer's time on it. If I buy an Emitter it will be from outside the country on my voltage. Still no luck yet on finding Accuphase gear to test. I might have to abandon that one.

Regarding your other comment: "...when buying 10k components, any dealer will be willing to bring them to your home and install them into your system and will most likely also offer a 10% discount on top of that. I am sorry to hear the situation is much more different in Korea I certainly did not expected that." They're not going to do that for used equipment, and unless you are wearing a suit and a tie when you drop by, they're not going to waste a lot of time trying to earn your money. I've encountered a few decent dealers but I didn't like their equipment with my music--Dynaudio for example, or Dali for another. I'm also, as you may have noticed, not an ethnic Korean, and that factors in as well, though I do speak some of the language. The seller of the Accustic Arts amp was rather surprised last Friday when he saw me pull out a large wad of cash ready to buy the amp that was already gone. Now, he feels bad and is going to try and find something that might appeal to me. I guess the lesson for dealers, used or new, in any country is never underestimate a potential customer. You might just end up losing a very likely sale.

I would suspect that while the MF Tri-Vista 300 has a similar sound to the A5 gear, my amp is significantly better. I was first drawn to the MF gear with a pair of Micro Utopias at a dealer that was using an older MF A308 amp and a Tri-Vista DAC. To me at the time, that sound was quite magical, and I was sold on the Micros and ended up trying to buy them as well. Sometimes I regret not getting those instead of the Altos--reasons of moving for example but also the reasons you listed and the possibility of other options for amplification. I would have gotten them new over here, but the dealer was stubborn that we pay in cash rather than card in order to get his special price. I heard the Diablos at a recent show with Bryston amplification and I was very, very impressed. I have plans to eventually build a small, second system for my wife that may include used Micros with a Jadis integrated for our downstairs space. Or I may get Usher monitors instead.

" I also saw a MF KW 750 used. yet another good option to consider though I'm sure this one is a bit more pricey." Sorry for the confusion on this sentence. I meant to say that I suspect the amp is a bit more pricey than I can get it used elsewhere on the net. Sorry for the ambiguity on that.

Paul, I heard the top-of-the-line Confidence floorstanders (C4?) and while I was impressed by the staging, I was not impressed by the tweeter with my music. At the time I was doing the testing, about seven years ago, I was listening almost exclusively to electroacoustic and electroacoustic improvised music. Only a few speakers that I heard did well with this kind of music, JM Lab Electra and Utopia Be being the best among them. B&Ws were also good. The Dynaudios, which were great on most kinds of music, could not accurately reproduce the sound on this kind of music. That's why there's much to factor in when evaluating music components. People talk about the room justifiably but equally important is one's musical taste as well as taste in the kind of reproduction provided by the system. For EA and EAI, I need something fast, authoritative, detailed and powerful. This music puts enormous demands on the speakers. At one point four years ago, I had to replace the tweeters on my Altos because of this. One of the dealers in an audio shop commented that my music was very good for evaluating the capability of a component.

I never meant to suggest that the MF A308 was better than your A5. Only that my original experience with the Micros were with that amp.

I'm curious about what you consider to be the sonic signature of the Gryphon amplification. I'm currently considering the purchase of a Gryphon Encore, which is a very powerful A/B amplifier and going for a reasonable price used. I'd be also interested in what might be a compatible preamp if I were to go in that direction. I'm still considering the ASR, but part of me thinks it might be better to go with separates this time rather than the multiple boxes that come along with the Emitter. With separates, if one component goes bad, it can be replaced readily enough. With the Emitter it involves sending multiple packages in for repair. Can you describe the sound of the Gryphon with the Utopia speakers? Which Gryphon were you listening to?

Jadis would probably be great for most kinds of music except for rock and EA. I imagine it would be majestic on vocals and small group jazz as well as chamber music. But would the low wattage and tubes work well with Focal floorstanders given their difficult impedance load? Someone said on the Audiogon once that the Jadis 845 on Nova Utopias was the best sound he had ever heard. I imagine it was but I can also imagine what he was probably listening to. I would suspect that this amp would have otherwise been pretty bass-shy.

I'm sure though that a Jadis integrated would work well with the Micros downstairs and with the music we'd likely to be playing there (not EA).

I also did hear the Dynaudio Confidence monitors. My reaction to those was the same as the much larger floorstanders.

Thanks for the reply, Paul. The Gryphon Encore is long gone. It left shortly after my post actually. I did hear the Gryphon Callisto 2100 once at the same audio shop as the Dynaudios. I compared it to the Manley Stingray, which came in about 40% of the cost of the Gryphons. I much preferred the Manley. I might have purchased it even except that I heard some kind of tube crackle with adjustments in the volume control, so I held off. I've heard more recently that the Callisto 2200 is much better and of a different sound than the 2100.

Anyway, I decided finally to purchase the ASR Emitter II Exclusive on layaway used. I was able to get it in my voltage, and after other amps I was considering were sold, I decided to go in this direction. After a few more months when I take delivery and have a chance to hear the Emitter with the Alto Utopias, I will post my comments. I look forward to getting and hearing this amplifier.

Thanks Paul. I need to get those pics loaded up soon. The MF is a nice amp to be sure, and I very much enjoyed it for eight years, but this new amp is in another world. Thanks once again for the help and support!