Absolute top tier DAC for standard res Redbook CD

I too think Diamond SX would be good branding, reflecting a stellar audio product.

Hi,

I would like to state that the overdrive se playing red book was significantly better than the emm dac2x playing dsd of the same recording. Better holography, transients and decay. To me more visceral, engaging and organic.

I would strongly consider the sx and either not bother with dsd or have a dsd dac.

Matt,

I followed Steve Nugent's lead and purchased a Plasmatron from VH Audio. I recommend the 3A over the 6A since you are only running digital sources.

Regardless of which you feel is best for your system, this will take it a leap forward towards your objective.

Matt. If you could arrange a lampizator seven, ModWright's Elyse tube dac alone with the allnic, this would give readers a good base comparison regarding tube dacs to empirical.

I have been consistently impressed with Empirical over the last many years. As new designs are discovered he offers mods at a nominal price. His most recent mod made the SPDIF converter obsolete with the odse. Matt, I agree that quality trumps price and break in time. I am sure the sx price will reflect those quality parts.

I fear I take my dac to a jeweler for some mods and they switch to a less quality cap...er. I mean diamond.

Usb is asynchronous so I thought there is no clock from usb card. Word clock is only for spdif. there was a great article from 2010 demonstrating external clocks performed worse than dac clocks. I will email the article to matt.

Steve. Eta on the release of the sx. Would late March seem about correct?

Matt,

I wanted to report my findings on another dac that has both ethernet and USB input. Although I have taken great strides improving my computer server, the ethernet input improves everything by a wide margin. Considering I have invested over 10K in my computer server, it is nice to find a better work around.

Although dac design and implementation is unique, I have great confidence in Empirical's new renderer.

Steve, can you state more information regarding this unit that will be able to be used with any of your products? Would a user need to send the unit to you to replace the USB card for an Ethernet card? Or is this a separate external unit, Like a Ethernet to I2S?

I have been fortunate to be given on loan many dacs recently and believe for best results use both a PCM specific dac and a DSD specific dac. Having two dacs in your system is not inconvenient, unless you are in random play and switch between formats.

Because of the ODSE, I am not overly crazy about DSD. When I take the same recording: DSD on a universal DAC (configured for both DSD and PCM) or Redbook PCM on ODSE, 16/44.1 sounds better.

Matt,

Yes. Empirical is still my reference. I have been given on loan for review gear from a somewhat new company out of South Korea that is very innovative. I hope they find a honest distributor that will treat both the company and consumer well as I believe they have much to contrubute to the community and like Steve Nugent, brings value to the market. For those that do not know Empirical's business model, there is no middlemen necessitating a 400% mark up. I would be surpised if these units are sold 50% above cost.

On a different note, the ethernet would negate the need for a computer server, per se. Instead you have a computer or controller that tells the NAS drive for example to send the files direct to the dac. The files are effectively delivered unprocessed.

The Complete Guide To HiFi UPnP / DLNA Network Audio
on computeraudiophile website is a good reference article and he wrote 3 others on this topic as well.

I am very familiar with allnic and the D5000.

To be clear. In order to test the digital realm the signal passed through the dht tubes. I had mine sent off to So Ca for independent testing. It too tested poorly but sounded excellent. Even the engineer commented to this effect. There is something inherent to the DHT tubes that create poor results. My unit test results were symmetric and poor. I do have an extra set of tubes. I do not have the testing equipment and my ears do not hear a difference between channels or an overall improvement between them.

Interestingly Waversa tests are perfect. I have no explanation.

The DHT dac is an excellent dac. I give it higher marks than the engineer who felt the Resonnance invicta mirus is currently top dac. Best measurements and best sounding. I have no experience to say either way. It sells for only 5k.

Sunil - he is wonderful on all fronts. I would not hesitate doing business with him. He also has a demo program which I highly recommend. Never purchase on reviews alone. I did for the EMM dac and was a financial mistake.

Anyone interested in Allnic gear and wants an unbiased perspective pm me.

I have a to b tested allnic to the odse. Both have unique qualities. I did sell my odse for the diamond SX with ethernet input. I currently have a dac with both ethernet and usb input. Ethernet is a magnitude better, eliminating the server.

Check out my allnic review for those interested. Call Sunil and demo before purchasing. Demo both the odse and decide for yourself. Empirical also has a demo program. Your system, your ears, your money. They all are great people to deal with.

Cheers!

http://www.computeraudiophile.com/section/ca-academy-2/

at this site there are several articles on Ethernet input and advantages/disadvantages compared to a music server.

I have on loan a unit from Waversa from South Korea which has both inputs (USB and Ethernet). Speaking with two friends over there, they believe uniformly Asian audiophile market has moved away from USB for the reasons Steve Nugent mentioned previously on this thread. In essence I found the Renderer (Ethernet input) is a magnitude better than USB.

Setup is more complicated and playback options are somewhat limited. This is the downside I found so far. Maybe others could chime in here.

The renderer (dac with ethernet) has an IP address. You use a remote that can be a portable device app or another computer. The remote only tells what files are sent from your source (HD or NAS or Internet) to your DAC. Some dacs have volume control, like this one. However, if used, the DSD over PCM will no longer work as the bit length is altered and DSD signal cant be determined in the PCM 176 sample rate.

With the IP address, you (or the manufacturer) are able to make processing adjustments remotely, alter other settings or implement firmware upgrades.

Regarding storage and playback, I encourage you to read about Paul Pang blog and Jplay.eu forums as well as Computeraudiophile subsection on storage (in this order). Personally I use a NAS system: Synology. I currently recommend Enterprise drives. The top drive keeps changing. I have Hitachi. I also purchased mine through Simplynas.com. This was by far cheaper than individual units through Newegg or Tom's, etc.

I also never thought I would have beyond 10 TBs of music either. The catalog grows quick.

The current trend I read is transferring a sub-section of music to a playback SSD drive that your server draws from. I personally do not do this.

Read these sources and your will be well versed on the topic.

Cheers.

I too agree with Steve Nugent. Servers are too new and they are constantly changing and being outdated quickly. My personal experience demonstrates the benefit of each mod for your server may pay dividends based on how the DAC (USB)/Renderer (Ethernet) implements the input hardware. The better the dac interface design, the less audible benefit gained from improvements upstream.

I have no experience with Antipodes but value Steve's insight, which has been consistently beneficial over the years.

Over on Jplay.eu a discussion regarding a to b comparison between a dual server (Control and playback) with Windows 2012 + Jplay + Audio Phil OS Optimizer vs. the $17,000 Aurender (which was offered at a discounted price) demonstrated marginal to major benefits on all fronts favoring the lesser expensive home build server.

The server for me is a continuous experience where I have changed and modified the server over the years at an expense well over most of these commercial servers mentioned in this thread. Honestly, I feel I should have just purchased an Aurender or Antepodes. However, to do so would limit my ability to adapt to new technologies.

Speaking with folks over in Asia, they have moved away from the sever altogether.

I personally believe part of the reason why Steve's Mac Mini sounds as good as it does is how well the ODSE implements the USB interface. Waversa also does this extremely well. Their Ethernet input is a magnitude better over their USB input. Because of this, I am favoring an internal Ethernet to I2S on the ODSX. Steve's external Ethernet to I2S with linear PS could be a major gain for dacs with I2s input.

With these dacs, the sound signature settings of Audiophile optimizer creates no sonic difference in my system. The USB cable was minimal change. $40 switch PS to Battery PS to LPS - minimal change.

My recommendation is this: find the dac that you enjoy most. Then if the USB interface is well designed, you will save substantial cash avoiding other improvements. If not, consider an Offramp 6 (YES, Six - it is coming soon) or Sonicweld Diverter before you make improvements in the server.

Regarding servers. I would strongly consider Paul pang who now is building complete servers. This would be a w2012 with audio Phil optimizer, linear ps, slc ssd and quality cables. Excellent price.

Steve-

I believe your Diamond SX is something special and will quickly be noticed in the audio community.

Since these units are now in very limited supply, would you post your thoughts on the sonic qualities of for each build option? For those who have never been to Steve's auditioning system, his perception is spot on.

What I am curious to learn is the benefits and disadvantages of:

XMOS USB (which I find better than M2Tech) compared to your external ethernet to I2S converter compared to internal ethernet to I2S direct. For those unfamiliar with the overdrive, the internal USB input card can be replaced by Ethernet to I2S. No dac will have both USB and Ethernet due to the compact chassis design.

Currently on loan to me is a dac that has all these inputs and Ethernet direct is by far the best. But again, implementation is important. I have yet to see a dac better implemented and designed than Steve. There are so few dacs with direct Ethernet, that I am uncertain if the concept or implementation makes it better. Steve, what are your thoughts on Ethernet direct input? I have from two sources that in Asia that the majority of audiophiles do not use a server and dac design focus is more on Ethernet because 80, 90, 95% of the consumers solely use this input.

Second comparison:

What qualities do each brand of caps bring to the table in your SX design? Will you have a few units in possession and be able to directly compare simultaneously?

This insight will pay dividends for us who have specific needs tailored to our system. What I have learned is benefits do not translate to each system uniformly.

Steve, I commend you on your years of service both as an engineer continuously improving on already amazing products and creating a successful business. Rarely I find a one man show able to do both so well. You are genuine in your advice to your consumers and foremost genuine in your advice to your competitors. What most manufacturer would consider propriatary, you openly share for the good of the community. In this regard, I consider you a Professor. This is the highest respect I give anyone in my field.

I hear they both take many hours to break in. But I have not heard either myself. What do you like about the duelund? If I am able to source some silver duelund caps I may have you run those. What spec caps are required? I remember there are 4 total. I believe the Jupiter caps are silver, and if so ups wonder if they too will have a similar affect.

Does duelund offer discount to industry Manufacturers?

The ODSE is much better through Empirical Final drive transformers direct to the amp. The effect is not subtle. When compared to EMM Labs DAC2x with Allnic L3000, it is as if wool blankets wrapped three layers thick were removed from the speakers. The clarity was better, by a wide margin than using High Fidelity Ultimate Reference cables that cost $$$ used. In my experience, a preamp that cost 22K would provide added value but the value is not worth the price.

Matt. I am impressed. Well over 18 months ago, and before the birth of this wonderful blog, you approached me about purchasing my EMM DAC2x and I told you what replacing it with...the ODSE! While I personally found the EMM sterile and lifeless, your insight is intriguing. Before I sold the EMM I updated with the newer firmware, I found improvement but not to the level of the ODSE.

After reading Chris Connikar recent review on CA, and trusting your ears I encourage any current EMM Dac2x owner to send their unit back to Calgary and bring your dac to the current HARDWARE, and firmware standard. The unit I sold was an early generation of the 2x. From CA article, EMM has made some significant changes to the DAC2x.

Anyone interested in purchasing one, call Sanjay Patel at Ciamara. He is wonderful to work with.

Matt, and to everyone who contributes to this thread, thank you!

Hi Matt,

I am not sure if we discussed Steve Nugent's Overdrive SE with his final drive bypassing a pre-amp. This setup did surpass my tube 12K preamp and did so by a VERY WIDE margin. This is where Steve Nugent's dac really shines. I have since upgraded my pre to something completely different. The Allnic L5000 DHT. Through complete balanced cabling I have custom modded computer server to Overdrive SE fully modded with all Paul Hynes Regs and all outputs > Allnic L5000 DHT > Emprical Final Drive > Allnice A6000 monoblock 300b. My experience, it took a piece that retails for 20K to add sonic quality beyond what was offered by the Overdrive SE > Final Drive combo.

Steve's dac/pre combo did get best in show during the RMAF last year, used with Vapor speakers.

I disagree with the statement that a musically engaging dac is a dac that adds color. Owning an Overdrive myself, I can tell you first hand seeing the inside, Steve has minimal point to point distance between various components...this dac is well designed, densely pack with quality parts.

There may be benefit in a non-upsampling dac. Again I do not have much to compare it do but both my old Meitner Museatex bidat and Empirical dac (both non-upsampling) best my (for sale) EMM LABS Dac2x. However, I never am able to sell the EMM labs because I am not going to lie, to me Steve's dac best it and at a better price.

For anyone looking for a new setup, I would strongly encourage them to consider bypassing a preamp, and focusing on Dac>Final drive combo. For $9750, with Steve Nugent's current special, you would be hard pressed to find something better. I was unable to at 3x that range. Again, this is my experience. I jumped on Steve's deal last fall (same as today) and after following his gear for the last two year, his stuff never goes on sale...there is no middle man and very little markup.

This is the other thing that frustrates me regarding high end audio gear...there is the public price and the trade price. For those who review gear and get it free or below cost and which I personally question their review as unbiased. Then others with connections acquiring a DAC2x for under 3K. Call me envious or jealous...I admit that, I am. Those bstrds (grin). Knowing Paul Hynes, the chassis and parts used in Steve' dac, I estimate his overhead in materials alone approaches 4K.

I posted this in 2012 when I first heard his dac, and it applies today: "Regarding the Overdrive SE stock vs. upgraded Analog Hynes Regulators and CUTF coupling caps: My impression was Steve himself preferred stock over the upgrades. The differences were subtle for rock performances, with stock giving a more stage presence allowing my visceral experience of being at a Bonnie Raitt concert. Personally, for what I listen to, I much preferred the upgrades. To me this sounded like the performer was 5 – 10 feet away with a very real 3d effect. I would move to different aspects of the room and that person is still playing in the same spot. The other detail I would sense is when a musician will pluck a chord flat or not. Very often at musical events that are really impressive, I close my eyes and enjoy the music. Eyes closed, this performance seemed no difference. Also, if you enjoy piano, go with the upgrades…I have never heard piano in any reference system sound like this."

I have a third dac for review that will be of interest and I will compare it to both the EMM and Empirical. Allnic D5000 DHT. Anyone in the Oregon region would be interested, please PM me.

Trialing many high end dacs together is difficult. This is why I initially purchased the EMM, sans audition. No one local carried high end dacs. EMM is a great dac, it is precise, neutral, and detailed. It however for me is not engaging. I believe Steve's dac would challenge many vinyl rigs and envelopes you into the experience.

Now take this DAC and VH audio Plasmatron 3A unit and you will find sonic bliss.

Bryston is a good brand and reasonable price. - I was impressed with the quality of sound when paired with the ODSE. Much cheaper than my highly invested CAPS server.

"Computer Audio Design - not available in the US. You can get them, but import only. Usb only for Input. Probably in the same class as the ODSE. But as long as it doesn't have a solid US presence, I'm hesitant to look further."

-They make a great USB cable. I am unfamiliar with their dac, but I do not believe they make a server.

***Regarding servers - the interface design of the dac and how this is implemented goes a *Very* long way to eliminating any sonic issues created by the server. In other words, the benefits generated by using LPS, OS optimizer programs, quality USB cables have benefits of diminishing returns.

"After a multiple USB cable trial, I found galvanic isolated interface greatly reduces the sonic differences between cables. Although there remains a difference between extremes comparing a USB 2.0 generic USB printer cable to my preferred Vertere Pulse-R 1.5 meter USB cable, the difference is muted demonstrating subtle differences. The Pulse-R removes a slight course texturing or hash bringing the overall soundstage into focus."

At $1800 this cable paid dividends when used with the EMM DAC2x. When I asked their engineer why they did not have galvanic isolation, he believe it would be prohibitively expensive. ODSE (and ODSX) with XMOS USB interface will have galvanic isolation. Allnic and Waversa are two dacs with this implementation.

Empirical Audio new Ethernet to I2S converter (either internal dac implementation or and external unit with a linear power supply) will eliminate the server and its associated issues.

Matt,

Did you ever compare PS Audio Direct Stream Dac to these other nice and very expensive dacs? I am curious how dacs that do not cost the earth to have compare. My experience dictates that there are a ton of really good dacs that run head to head and may even be better depending on the listener's system and taste.

Matt,

I was one of the first adopters of the Plasmatron.

I would order his cable upgrade:
(VH Audio)- which uses OCC UniCrystal copper, as well as my AirLok dielectric.

This product is so good I am having him build a 220V unit for Waversa Systems CEO in South Korea. I believe this unit will be very popular over there.

My unit is the 6 Amp version. I believe this is not necessary as most people would not plug in video or pre-amp. Video (OLED/LCD/Plasma) will contaminate the line.

The Plasmatron needs warm up of 1 hour before full effect...then you are immersed into the music.

To clarify Steve's post.  I believe his proprietary chip for the ODSX is not DSD compatible.  So the Ethernet to I2S external unit would work for any DSD capable dac.  However, the built in Ethernet input may handle DSD but the dac itself will not process it.

As a previous owner of the ODSE, I believe how the ODSE processes a recording in PCM sounds better than all dacs that I directly compared simultaneously playing a DSD version of the same recording.

My version of the ODSX will have Ethernet direct input as this has been better sounding than USB from other dacs that have both Ethernet and USB inputs.  

Obviously this is subjective observation, but a perspective not mentioned here to date.

Agear - The ODSX will have option of having USB or Ethernet input.  The current USB is M2Tech but I suggest waiting until the XMOS is figured out.  Steve is creating a new device where Ethernet converts to I2S.  This is different than his Offramp 6 that will soon be released as well that handles DSD throughput.  The Ethernet to I2S can either be an external unit or an internal unit for the ODSX in place of the USB.  Given my personal experience, I believe the internal Ethernet to I2S will beat Ethernet to high grade server to ODSX by USB.

What is said here about the Plasmatron makes sense.  My voltage varies from 116 to 126, sometimes more.  It is necessary in my system when not running tube dacs.  They seem to tolerate voltage changes better for some reason.  I live in the same region as Steve Nugent and reason he has the same issues as I do.  This is likely why we both find it favorable.  So much so I gifted a 220V version to a friend in Korea.

I also would not be so critical about Matt desire to sell his Plasmatron.  Great, I highly suggest someone take him up on his offer.  They do not come up the resale market.  At least I have never seen one.  Like Matt, as my system evolved over the years, I have many times purchased something and was not satisfied then sold it at a loss.  In total I estimate 50% of cost of my system!  This is why I appreciate everyone's endeavors here.  It helps save money.  Ironically, Matt approached me before the beginning of this thread to purchase my EMM dac2x but I talked him out of it.  I was never satisfied with its sonic signature.  Instead I told him about the Overdrive.  18 months later he acquires an EMM and loves it!  My unit was a very early build and there were hardware improvements this last year.  Maybe it is the unit or it is our perception.  This highlights the importance of auditioning gear regardless of what people say.  EMM audition was not an option back then.  ...audition in your system is essential.  

(Of interests: I sold my EMM DAC2x for $7800 and was difficult because dealer(s) were selling newly built, sealed, from factory units for same or less!).   Summer is a low sale season and dealers often are looking for a quick sale.  EMM is a respectable company and grew up on their Museatex line.  The EMM great dac but not to my taste.  I found the ODSE to be much better and many others for the fraction of the price.

My gear sold in mint condition cheap, the Plasmatron will be a deal for the next guy.

I hope to hear Matt's system in person someday.  Glad his endeavors have paid dividends.

Greetings to everyone on the thread.

It has been sometime since I posted on this thread but have been keeping up for the most part.  

I received the ODSX Friday and per Steve Nugent will break in on my secondary system for another week 24/7.  It has been since January of 2015 since I owned the ODSE.  Since then, I have had the pleasure to audition and hear some new and some prototype dacs.  That said, I am certainly glad I have this new unit.  Unfortunately I will be unable to do direct a to b with the ODSE.

Although a more formal impression will be forthcoming, without question I would avoid the USB input and opt for the internal Ethernet direct to I2S converter, especially the M2Tech USB.  Personally, I have never been a fan of the XMOS due to stability issues over many dac manufactures.  M2Tech was more stable in this regard.

This Ethernet input is absolutely stable (unlike USB), produces a superior sound observed in dacs other than the ODSX, negates the need to use a server, negates the need of a driver, and I am able to stream direct Tidal, Linn, Qbuz up to 24/192 using Linn Kazoo and Bubble UPnP.  This is very easy to set up and use.  I will report back regarding ROON.  This I am researching.  From the ROON website, they are willing to take in sample units from manufacturers and task their RAAT proprietary software to specific hardware.  Steve however is a one man show and if this cost anything to the cottage industry producer, ROON will not be an option.  However, I will send my unit in to them if they are willing.

The Ethernet has galvanic isolation.  I will test to see if Giso (galvanic isolator) or Waversa Smarthub (LiPo Powered, ethernet re-clocker/filter audiophile switch) have any sonic improvement and report back.  

I know Matt and others have sent their units in for updates.  Ditch USB and you will be glad.

Like the ODSE the ODSX runs hot.  I sent my thermal measurements to Steve and he believes this is not an issue.  The region over the Ethernet to I2S converter is the hottest but stable regardless of output gain setting.  The rest of the unit will get proportionally hotter from low to high volume and low and high gain settings.  If you have a high gain system like I do, then set it to low gain.  Having it on high gain is not an issue per Steve, but it will run as hot or hotter than 300b tubes.  

To everyone here, enjoy your holiday weekend and play safe.

Look at "optical network configurations" under computeraudiophile, network subforum.  Without question, cheaper and provides galvanic isolation.  It is a very long thread so start in chunks toward the end.   Optical Network Configurations

There is also a new thread on how to run Roon from your NAS:   Official Roon Build for Synology and QNAP   A more formal article is forthcoming by Chris C.  

Matt, when you are ready email me and I will help you through that process.  It is no harder than USB setup and in some ways easier.

CT- PM me and I will email both you and Matt together. Matt has my email address.

Your goal is to have quality, simplicity, reliability and versatility.

Fiber optic is just an alternative to wired Ethernet. It is much cheaper than moderate priced ethernet cable and it provides galvanic isolation. Like your power lines the Ethernet cable carries other currents that mess up digital electronics, especially the DAC clocks. The switch power supplies are part of this issue.

In your situation, wireless will not have enough range to reliably drop two or more floors. Wireless will limit high resolution files both DSD and PCM. Optical can run adjacent to electrical cable, whereas low voltage cables need to be 18" away, depending on local code. When they cross ideally they would cross at perpendicular angles.

Second option is to have two independent systems: Comcast provides two accounts: two modems and two independent networks. While this may decrease certain noise perse, you would give up versatility and create some redundancy. Although two NAS systems would provide some backup.

To run cable would not be too expensive and you can find someone to do it for you for reasonable price. In your situation, I sense you are running dedicated power. I would run fiber down to your listening room. From there the options are many and easily changed when needed--especially important as digital audio is rapidly evolving.

A newer NAS (not my generation NAS) has the advantage of negating the need of a server or separate CORE processor running ROON. I however do not see a sonic advantage at the moment since your NAS is a large source of electrical pollution. I am also researching HQPlayer and if that program will process files then use UPnP/DNLA type protocol. I am uncertain if a ROON>HQPlayer will process then send by RAAT (Roon Advanced Audio Transport) codec to RAAT capable Ethernet units. My understanding thus far- HQ player will process (by server) and send by USB to a USB dac only. For clarity ROON, RAAT and HQ Player are new to me.

Does the new EMM dac have Ethernet?

I’d rather not distract from the overall thread. I will post any valuable and succinct solutions when appropriate.

Greetings Everyone. 

I wanted to update you regarding Steve Nugent's Empirical Overdrive Diamond SX with the optional internal galvanic isolated Ethernet direct I2S converter cpu.  I have run the is unit 24/7 for now over 1000 hours and I must admit the caps needed this time to break in.  This will be the first dac that I felt needed over 6 weeks of almost continuous play to break in.  However, this is one instance where patience paid dividends.  

Since we all have our own perception and certainly favor different qualities, I am not going to delve into a lengthy review.  The qualities that stand out and I believe most would agree, the dac is well balanced on all fronts and certainly demonstrates design implementation is more important than the dac chip itself.  Historically, I have been approached by others who felt the ODSE was overly analytical.  I humbly disagreed as I found it to be detailed, accurate and perhaps unforgiving.  While I found the SE emotionally engaging, the SX is addictive. The more dacs I audition, I find myself with a preference to non-oversampling design implementation.  My goal is to compare this unit to a R2R ladder dac, Totaldac, and will report my results.  At 4x the price, it would have to engage me on an entirely different level.  Steve's dac chip is proprietary and I feel discussing design theory should be left to the electrical engineers.

At first blush, I had found little difference between the ODSE and the ODSX.  Over time the Diamond SX bloomed, creating an even more precise presentation of the music. Well-recorded intimate recordings immersed me into a room of musicians. Big venue live recordings placed me back from the stage, closer to the soundboard, creating a deep and viable soundstage. Both the ODSE and the ODSX have been the best interpolating PCM data and recreating an accurate presentation of the recording, especially piano, wind instruments, and particularly the mid and upper range of percussion decay. I still hold to my initial assessment years ago. I have yet to find a DSD dac that performs better than Steve’s implementation of PCM. However, I have not heard a ground up designed DSD only (non PCM) dac.

 

The chassis is no different that the ODSE. The faceplate now states SX in place of SE and the knob has a very subtle recessed diamond. Nice touch but for those who upgrade their SE to SX, I would keep your old faceplate and save money. The rear panel is the same. Mine had a manual cutout where the Ethernet input replaced the USB. This does bring me to another point: For those of you who will upgrade, the ODSE/X run hot. The morphology of the circuit boards change and this will affect the soldering. I highly recommend you pay the extra nominal fee and use a virgin board.   Longevity is essential. While I am sure Steve will service these units well into retirement, save yourself the headache.

 

Those of us who owned these units before know these units run hot. While breaking in, I ran the unit in my office on my desk, which is quartz composite. The unit ran hot, up to 208* over the Ethernet board. Steve assured me this is not an issue. When I placed in my system on Bubinga wood, the temperature dropped by 50* while being relocated in direct sunlight and reset to high-output line out. Surfaces matter, ventilation matters. I have run this dac hard without failures on any level.

 

The Ethernet DNLA/UPnP is simpler, more robust, and strait forward. Unlike USB, Ethernet packets of data are checked for errors and packets with errors are resent. The more I read about USB implementation, more validating why I despised it and found it universally inferior to AES/EBU. ROON uses its own RAAT protocol in place of DNLA/UPnP. The third party company which designed the Ethernet to I2S converter CPU chip has no interest in RAAT. ROON states they will implement DNLA but with no timeline. Because of this current incompatibility, I have not pursued ROON at this juncture. One manufacture who uses this CPU has figured a work around and was able to implement ROON RAAT. However this was not to an I2S conversion. Through Bubble UPnP and Linn Kazoo (both free) I am able to stream Tidal without any issue. Linn Kazoo is not on the same league as ROON or even Tidal’s own controller. To say it plainly, the user interface sucks.

 

There are many third party controllers. Some are free, while some are cheap to purchase. They all work well, and I give credit to this third party manufacturer. Not all Ethernet dacs/Renderers have this level of performance. Please note:  I find those controllers that send a file direct from NAS to the DAC without processing sound better. Those who have interest in this topic please PM me for more detail and discussion. I would love to learn where others have found success and discovered absolute ‘do not’s’.

 

I wish to commend Steve on a well designed dac. Thank you for reigniting my passion for this hobby. This last year has been somewhat frustrating for me. High-end components do not necessarily play well together and this certainly has been a journey. When my wife leaves a concert and says that sounded as good as listening at home, she is complementing the venue…and Steve the credit belongs to you.

Although currently i am not using Steve's volume control, it is designed in such a way to present the information in bit perfect form nor loose dynamics in the output stage.  The old Meitner Museatex bidat had a similar design.  

ODSE > Final Drive > Allnic A6000 mono blocks was far superior to ODSE > Allnic L3000 > Allnic A6000, as if wool blankets three layers thick were removed from the speakers providing more depth, detail, improved clarity and imaging.  The Allnic retails for $13,000.

I since replaced the Allnic L3000 with the $23,000 L5000 DHT, which I purchased used for $10,000.  The sound was different but of a comparable quality.  With a DHT/Transformer based system, there is limited benefit adding the final drives.  I believe Matt, also with a high quality pre-amplifier found no benefit.

I have not tried this comparison again with the ODSX, but will report back when I am able to give it the focus it needs.  Per Steve's recommendations I am trying a loom of Antipodes Reference cables.  My system likes balanced cables better and I will sell off my High Fidelity Ultimate Reference Loom.  One of my amps gets a 60/120 Hz low noise with balanced cable while using the VH Audio Plasmatron.  It follows the amp, but could be the balanced cable design.  I believe the Plasmatron adds significant benefit to Steve's DAC.  Matt tried his on my recommendation and didn't like it.  So eventually I will see where things settle out.

This is my long winded answer.  The Final Drives are passive using quality transformers.  For the price, I have yet to see anything better.  His DAC plus Final drive to amplifier is an excellent combination and definitely a reasonable price.  For me buying and selling gear often is a money losing proposition and getting the sound I desire was met with this consequence, more so than I care to admit.  Through this process, I learned to trust Steve's ear.  In hindsight, I wish I invested in the ODSX with Ethernet input/Findal Drive combination and focused my resources elsewhere.  This would negate the need for a server, preamp and allow yourself to focus on an amplifier or speakers, if needed.

For anyone who has or is interested in Empirical Dac, I did some more system experimentation. I am going to change my previous impressions. For an absolutely wonderful system and one that can best what I have invested in or experimented with, at 3-5 times the price, consider the ODSX and Final Drives with Antipodes Reference XLR cables and speaker cable loom. I have not found this level of synergy for some time.  Feed this system into your favorite amp and speakers and I believe you will be very happy. Buying and selling gear for me has always been a money loosing proposition. At least I enjoy the journey. Save yourself some cash or invest it in other aspects of your system.

Anyone in the Pacific NW is welcome to audition the gear.

Matt,
 
Did you ever receive the Total Dac stack?  Curious how this company compares to crazy expensive dacs you are listening to these days. 

CT-

Been a while since I posted here.  My conclusion regarding Ethernet optical vs. RJ45 copper.  Optical causes magnitude more jitter but removes electrical noise in your network.  A quiet well implemented network with LPS, audiophile design network switch and clean AC power source, stick with RJ45 and excellent cable:  per Steve Nugent, Wire World Platinum silver at $$.  If you have my situation and a noisy, piss poor implemented network with horrid AC power.  Go Optical and address the jitter with a re-clocker or quality dac/ethernet input, audiophile Ethernet switch.  

I have seen these measurements and as Steve Nugent has said, devil is in the details.  New products are being developed out of Korea that address network issues and engineering with optical technology was a non-starter.  This leads me to conclude that similar issues associated with Toslink apply here.

To me, jitter by network does not make sense as data is sent in packets and there is a check sum for errors with Ethernet.

I can speak for Empirical, as most who have his products do. I wish his interchange was capable of RAAT protocol that ROON uses.  

Steve, do you have an explanation why with Ethernet and data sent in packets and check sum for errors, why jitter exists at all?  Although USB is far worse, why Ethernet requires same careful implementation?

Fast-reacting qualities of a power supply is not talked about with manufacturers/reviews much less actual published measurements.

For those here who use optical interface in their Ethernet network, do you noticed improvement with LPS in your internet switch or router located before conversion to the optical signal?

CT - I need your phone number. PM me.

I just purchased some WireWorld Cat8 cables and a Platinum power cord for my new yet to arrive dac, which is being sent to Matt to play with first.

What is being said here mirrors extensive research on Computer Audiophile in the past. Adding an LPS to everything in my network, I am best served to keep all non-audiophile required items wireless and have LPS to each NAS, Audiophile Switch, router and maybe modem. Add in expensive cable...costs are similar to a new system!

With the ton of noise injected from switch power supplies in my house, my office AC line being by far the worse, the only other option than optical is a series of galvanic isolation units. I have observed benefit with multiple units but other have not in their system.

I think Giso brand is better than most but I have not tried all of them out there now.