jrd -- I agree completely that all myths contain a kernel of truth. In the case of the Dead, Harley and McIntosh those kernels are old and dried up. Rowland is still vital and emerging where the sun has set on the others and only nostalgia or ignorance sustains their vestiges. |
I just sold a Concentra to buy a Concentra 2 so I'm one of the people selling Rowland.
In my experience on Audiogon there are favorite brands that carry the day for a time and Pass is enjoying that now. Krell seems to have fallen from favor in the past few years. As neither appealed to me in the first place, this is a non-issue.
Rowland and Goldmund operate so far above the Agon noisemakers that they receive little notice but they are perhaps the two most innovative companies offering solid state today.
Yes, they are expensive, and as such invite your "just as good as" comments but the fact is that if you live with their products for a protracted period and you can appreciate subtlety, then there is nothing better in solid state. |
jrd,
I have no idea if Mac sells well through all kinds of weather but I think using Harley as an analogy is prescient in that neither particularly excels at anything but both have captured the imagination of those who have little other
cerebral enterprise. For those who can never quite connect the dots, Harley, Mac and, indeed, the Grateful Dead are prima facie icons.
What in hell does Harley Davidson have to do with freedom or Confederate flags? And what, pray tell, does MacIntrash have to do with high end audio? Those who still wave the Mac flag are unaware of the progress designers such as Jeff Rowland
offer and will always remain so. Quality is not for everyone. If it was, MacDonalds would not have sold any hamburgers. |
Can't speak of other markets but audio has been experiencing attrition for 10 years or more. Some of us have died and others have lost jobs, lost interest or succumbed to divorce, computer or home theater distractions or insufficient funds to continue reinvesting endlessly. When high-end audio was growing the "carrot" proffered by TAS might have cost $20K, more than most of us could afford but within dreaming range. When that "carrot" moved to a point well beyond our mortgages, many of us despaired of ever being able to so much as dream of reaching for it. Some lost interest at that point. Who wants to participate in a game from which they are clearly disqualified.
Since Bush (not Osama) pulled the rug from under Clinton's economy, there are a tremendous number of white collar casualties who have to decide between their kid's tuition and their prized sound system. Or maybe it's health care or mortgage payments that force that decision.
In any case, we are losing brethren by the score and their detritus is beginning to clutter Audiogon with many a glorious piece at ever descending prices. Rowland is only one of many. |
Incidentally, I think it unlikely that any of you little boys would want a Harley if it didn't make noise. If not for U.S. government intervention, market forces would have eliminated HD years ago. They can't compete fairly with the Japanese as their products are dollar for dollar vastly inferior. All they are is noise and myth. That said, I will repeat that McIntrash is the perfect corollary in the audio world. Perhaps Crown is the Indian.
No complaints about my reference to the Dead being like Mac and HD? |
Asa,
Don't be fooled by my misanthropic diatribes. I'm a believer in the pendulum theory and feel strongly that we'll recover from our greed cycle. People are stupid in their low level reflexes, what with tying yellow ribbons for Buffoon 1 and berating the French for their sensible position versus Buffoon 2, but insofar as they blow in the wind, they will be blown back to sanity. Unless, of course, we are all blown to kingdom come.
We are in YIN times and for that reason our focus is outward and superficial but Buffoon 2 is unwittingly reversing this trend by providing us with a virtual certainty of YANG times in the near future. When our belts tighten sufficiently, we will again concern ourselves with substance.
The future, while superficially bleak, holds much promise as gutcheck time draws nigh. |
Tater, honey,
I hold little hope for you as a result of reading your petulant anti-Rowland rantings. You can't or won't spell the man's name correctly and you have not as yet betrayed any knowledge upon which you might reject his fine amplifiers.
If you trouble yourself to type JRDG into Google ou will find his website. From there you select "products" and from there select the Concentra II. There is a tech talk section there which will provide you with many reasons to admire his innovative spirit and clever designs.
If ever you purchase a new Rowland product, the experience of opening the box and acquainting yourself with the sophistication and gracious goodwill of the people who built and packaged it just for you is delightful beyond ready description. If ever you have been attended to by the more elegant of the servant trade, then you have a hint of the feeling Rowland conveys.
Soundwise, it cannot be faulted. I will concede that there are amplifiers whose characteristics better convey the sound effects of overproduced, unintelligible commercial recordings but in my vast experience I have yet to hear any solid state device that can do better justice to the essence of real music performed on acoustic instruments.
So, Tater, please do yourself a favor by noting the correct spelling and reading about the Concentra II. If you are still in the mood to lock horns on this topic at that time perhaps you will have some.
|
Jond,
Your request that I omit the Dead from this thread is fair and reasonable and I will honor it since I believe the Grateful Dead, like other religions should be a "don't ask, don't tell" sort of thing.
What's your theory about the equipment glut? |
Yes, Tater, you are supposed to be impressed. Please tell me in whole sentences why Jeff's award winning site doesn't impress you. |
Jond,
A friend of mine sold his Twelves on Agon and bought the 302 a while back and he says it is a quantum leap forward. He'a using Quad 989s and the Lindemann D-680 CD player with Nordost Valhalla throughout so you can see he is aware.
There can be no question about the impact of the 302 but I still think that while many are moving up, even more are moving out.
The item most prevalent on the for sale list seems to be the Model Two and going from that to a 302 is an unlikely leap.
By the same token, the only Concentras or Model 112s on the list are being offered from foreign countries. Old preamps (especially Consummates) are also pretty numerous. What would you guess is causing that? |
Jfz, That may be their intention but sadly, they aren't going anywhere. What a bummer to have a $5800 amp that draws no takers at $2200. That's only 38% of retail on something that is still just like new. Look at the pictures of these amps in the ads. They look great.
If I take it to a personal level and ask myself why I don't want to buy one, the answer is that I have a Concentra. Perhaps the existance of the integrated is what has short-circuited the sale of basic amps.
Why aren't you (or anyone else) buying one of these Model Two amps?
Another issue to consider is the price and scarcity of the matching preamp. A Concentra can be had without phono for an average of $2750, whereas a Model Two and a Synergy One would set you back nearly $5000 if you get the best price ever to appear on Agon on both of them. That's a whopping big difference. Once you throw in appropriate interconnects, you've probably doubled the cost.
Pure speculation on my part but the numbers support the theory. However, who knows what anybody else is thinking? |
Cdc -- I'm not familiar with any of those products but it sounds like you answered my question. I see Rowland's stuff as somewhat timeless like a Porsche but, cool as the old Speedster may still be, anything made today would run circles around it. I can't imagine that the Model Two is all that obsolete yet but you offered three possible alternatives and it would appear that Audiogoners are shunning this amp for some reason.
As for what happens when you want to sell.....that's a crapshoot but maybe, as with stocks, it is good to buy while the market is down. A few months back I almost bought a Classe 25 for $1200. The poor guy couldn't give it away. He finally did and now they are commanding nearly $2K and are hard to find. Same way with Concentras. Sometimes there are 6 or 8 of them in our listings and at other times (like now) there aren't any. Go figure. |
Pmkalby,
Delighted to have you weigh in on this topic. I agree that those who speak negatively about Rowland gear are likely doing so from a position of ignorance. To my way of thinking, Jeff Rowland has contributed more to the advancement of the High End art form than anyone else. And I'm not speaking solely of appearance when I say that. A careful investigation of his offerings will leave one better informed about State of the Art and more appreciative of the effort that can be made toward that end by one man committed to improvement and disinterested in marketing. |
