Weiss is so underrated


I have had the Weiss DAC 202 in my system for about a year now being used in a very ambitious and high resolution system. But then I got that typical audiophile itch and given that this DAC was the lowest priced component in my system, I thought that it was time for me to focus on a new DAC. So with the help of some friends and a local deal I got the following DACs to try in my system for an extended period of time: Berkeley Audio DAC 2 + Alpha USB, Calyx Femto, PS Audio PerfectWave DAC2 and DCS Vivaldi.

The Berkeley was the most analog sounding DAC and had great image focus. In comparison when inserting the Femto I could immediately hear a slight loss of focus on the location of instruments or voices. The Berkeley also has a very little electronic signature in high frequencies which is very impressive, especially at this price point.

The Femto DAC is quite an impressive machine with a well balanced sound. It is a substantial leap over the PS Audio DAC in every way. The Femto has a sound that should work well in virtually any system although it is a little on the dry side. But ultimately it's lack of tight focus of images bothered me.

While the Berkeley has a terrific analog sound and no matter how much you dissect it there is very little if anything that one can fault about his DAC, there is something about it that I found just doesn't suck you into the music. I often found my attention wandering and being distracted while listening to it.

The Vivaldi is by far the most expensive in the group and while it was impressive at a lot of things, in particular how it was able to remain composed during complex passages, it has a certain bright sound that just sounds very artificial to me. It has that sound that is remarkable for audiophile demo discs, but when just listening to music you enjoy I found it to be disappointing overall.

The PS Audio doesn't even come close to any of the DACs in this group. It sounds lifeless, flat, and dull in comparison. Any experienced listener will hear this right away. Beautifully made machine with great specs, but it just doesn't deliver the musical goods at all. I would say that it sounds like kind of how CD players sounded in the early 90s.

But let me tell you, the Weiss despite its relatively low price point beat every DAC in this group, including the mighty Vivaldi. It's soundstage is absolutely massive, much wider and deeper than the other DACs which makes it feel like you are listening in a much larger space (the opposite of Berkeley). And then it also has this incredible airiness that is very special to hear. Images float on silky smooth and airy presentation which is supported by a very dynamic foundation. It is just a thrill to listen to this DAC. The bass is also the most dynamic (although not very deep) that I heard which gives everything far more rhythm and pace.

So the conclusion is the Weiss 202 is a very serious piece of equipment, a remarkable bargain, and probably one of the best DACs out there regardless of price. Has anyone else done an direct A/B comparison with the Weiss? Does your opinion mirror mine?
dweinstein

Showing 14 responses by dweinstein

Nglazer, show me a SINGLE impressive or state of the art system that uses the PS Audio DAC. I've really only seen the PS Audio in budget systems by people who are just starting out in audio.
Dear Soix, indeed I am very curious I hear the Bel Canto DAC! From everything I have read about it looks like a formidable contender that should not be missed. Interestingly enough, a few years ago I owned a Bel Canto 845 single ended tube monoblocks. Bel Canto got out of tubes and completely changed direction. However, it was by far one of the best tube amps I ever heard and I regret that I sold it. Amazing sound.
Dear Almarg, in this comparison I used multiple inputs but primarily the Berkeley Alpha USB was used at the USB interface driven by MAC mini. The Alpha USB fed the AES input on all DACs. It just makes a very convenient interface. I found little difference driving the Weiss through FireWire or via AES supplied by Alpha USB. Maybe the Alpha USB gave it a touch more control durng complex passages.
Talk to any reputable dealer about PS Audio DAC. It's just not a high end device at all. There is nothing about its sound that is exceptional. Compared to almost any state of the art DAC it is completely flat, images do not lock in on the soundstage.

Hey, some people like Bose and some people like the PS Audio DAC.
Levy03, I was simply trying to point out that the Weiss DAC is a world class device that far surpasses its cost in performance. I have a very resolution system with top loudspeakers and amplification and it is very revealing of the tiniest changes. I have spent well over $100,000 on this system. I was surprised to learn that Weiss 202 can compete even with $30,000+ DACs.

But I don't even think its a matter of opinion that PS Audio DAC is flat and not musical and it actually does not have the attributes of a high end DAC.

If you like that sound, indeed that is your taste and you cannot argue taste. There are people who enjoy the Bose sound which in some ways is quite good although it doesn't sound anything like live music.

The PS Audio DAC could not compete with any of the DACs in this group, all of which were vastly superior to the PS Audio. This was immediately heard by other listeners who came by as well.
Mcondom, I didn't claim to have a state of the art system (although most people would consider that I do). But if you look at the top systems either used by reviewers, studios, or experienced audiophiles, none of them to my knowledge use the PS Audio DAC. You can basically buy the PS Audio from the Audio Advisor catalog and they will sell you speakers to match. That is typically the caliber of systems that use PS Audio.

On the other hand, I am just trying to make the point that the Weiss delivers remarkable performance for the money. So you don't have to be rich to own one. It's only a little bit more expensive that the PS Audio but can compete with units at just about any cost. The only DAC that I have heard that surpasses the Weiss is the EMM Labs DAC 2X, but it doesn't have a volume control.

But the Weiss makes the Medea and I am drooling over that unit...That will be my next purchase. Trust me guys, if you are on a budget the Weiss is the way to go. When I originally said it was underrated I meant that while it is already highly rated many dont know how good it actually is.
Levy03, all I have done is stated some thoughts based on extensive evaluation about a product. You on the other hand are aggressively attacking me personally, I don't know why you are desperate to defend the PS Audio DAC - perhaps you are in some way connected to the manufacturer or you are worried about the resale value of your unit.

However, it is silly to think that everything in audio is just a matter of opinion. If that was the case, I could just make a crappy DAC that costs $20 to make, put it in a shiny box, and put a $30,000 price tag on it. Then all I would have to do is find enough people with the opinion that it is the most amazing piece of equipment they ever heard.

Of course reality doesn't work like. Some manufacturers (like Weiss) pour literally years of passion and innovation into their products and clearly that results in better sound.

So better sound is better sound, it is not just a matter of opinion. Therefore I can tell you with confidence that my comments about PS Audio being a below average product with poor sound are actually fact, not just opinion.

A Krell amplifier sounds better than a Yamaha receiver - another fact, not opinion.
There is a point where better sound is factual. Otherwise, I could write posts here all day about the musicality of my alarm clock and if people disagree that it is the best sound in the world then just say its a matter of opinion - it's not.

Levy, why don't I take out the nice polypropylene capacitors in your speakers and replace them with cheap electrolytics? The resulting sound is not better or worse, it's just different according to you. In fact, why spend money on any premium materials if the result is just opinion driven?

Zavato, as far as my surprise regarding the Weiss outperforming or being at least on par with the $30k DAC is because the $30k DAC does have ultra premium parts, I suppose the reason why the Weiss is so good for the money is because Daniel Weiss is just a brilliant engineer and is able to extract more from lower cost parts. But all things being equal, it goes without saying that if we replace all the parts inside the Weiss with more premium parts then the sound would be even better.
What all of you are saying is that there are no bad or good components in audio, it's all just about system matching and opinion. Well, all of you are wrong.

A good, highly regarded component, while it may not be everyone's cup of tea, an overwhelming number of people will find it to sound good, simply because that sound would be closer to what music sounds like live.

How many people who have heard the Boulder phono preamp thought that it just wasn't that great after hearing it? How many people heard a VAC Statement 450 amplifier and just walked away thinking it sounded terrible? Or how about the Rockport Reference turntable?

Of course higher price doesn't automatically mean something will be good, but that is simply due to amateurs building components and then slapping a high price tag on it.

Nglazer, I guarantee you that if you replace the PS Audio DAC with the Weiss your system will take on a new level of realism. Your system is good but the PWD is a major limiting factor. You probably got the PS Audio because it is conveniently available from mail order retailers and didn't take the time to audition a selection of DACs. I absolutely guarantee this.

My main point in this thread which has gone way off topic is that there are good sounding components and bad sounding components, system matching and taste come in secondary to that. You cannot take a Bose Wave Radio and convince someone that it has the sound of a $50,000 MBL system. Although according to all of you this can somehow be done. I'd like to see that.
Soix, if what you were saying were true then I could just buy a $200 boombox and be done with it. It could easily be as good as my $100k+ system, I just need to change my opinion.

What about video? Would you say that 1080p resolution is not better than 480p, it's just a matter of opinion? Plenty of people would choose the lower resolution format over 1080p, inspite of the fact that the image is much sharper, crisper, and more vivid on the HDTV screen?
Mcondom, as I've said taste and system synergy is secondary. You see some people might choose a Ferrari over a Lamborghini and vice-versa but both brands are on equal footing and objectively deliver the same level of quality and performance. So in this case, when choosing at this level it will ultimately be your taste that will determine if you will chose the Ferrari or not.

However, you will certainly not choose a Kia over a Lamborghini if you are looking for a high performance car. You will know objectively that the Kia is not even in the same league.

It's the same with Pass and VAC, they are both state of the art products and of course at this level it will be your taste and system synergy that will ultimately dictate which one you choose.

I am simply making the point that the PS Audio is objectively like a Kia and Weiss is like a Lamborghini, although some people might got for EMM Labs (Ferrari) - an equally good choice determined by taste and system synergy.
Levy, I don't have plenty of money. I've worked very hard to put together the system that I have and made a lot of sacrifices along the way.

And wainwright, I think you are mistaken. Being dissatisfied with a component is not the only reason to pursue upgrades. Sometimes you might have a killer system but wonder how much better it might get. So this is like going from Ferrari (which you might be already very satisfied with) to Bugatti and spending 10 times as much to get just a 10% improvement.
What belief is that Zavato? For many people audio is a hobby and so the pursuit of perfect sound doesn't stop when you have an enjoyable system. For you it did, which is fine. Many people buy a Bose system and leave it at that and enjoy music on it immensely. But I don't think these forums are for people like that. I think this forum is more for people like me, hobbyists in pursuit of perfect sound.