Spl,I can tell you that, "without a doubt", a "very good" linear tracking/air bearing arm is going to allow a "musical presentation" unlike "any" alternative design type!!
I have extensive A/B comparative experience on this subject(with a half dozen different cartridges)as a dear friend(who's set-up I know probably as well as my own) had moved from a highly modified Air Tangent,to a 12.6 pivoting design.
In all honesty,originally I was shocked at the total loss of that "nice cushion of relaxed ambient pleasure" (the only way I can relate the signature sound,and it is still an incomplete description)when the move was made from air/linear to unipivot,but there has been a significant improvement in the pivot's set up,and the gap has closed more-so than I would have thought(to be fair and honest).....
Yet,and yet....IMO,once you hear a "superb system" that employs an "elite" linear tracking arm(preferrably air bearing)the experience is akin to "what is assumed" regarding being exposed to something like crack cocaine...
YOU ARE INSTANTLY HOOKED!!(also assuming you have been listening to LP's for a really long time,and know "their" signatures)
From my experiences,and taking my way of listening "into" a great set-up(which my friend "has" in spades),the linear/air bearing arm is simply an amazing instrument!
I envy those folks who have made the commitment to own,and operate one....The really good ones,are "that" amazing!!...."to me".
As far as maintenance/set-up goes...the pivot is a breeze,but the air bearing/linear arm required some maintenance consideration(the actual set-up was not too hard).This is mostly to keep the pump operating properly,and allow for there to be no build-up of moisture on the bearing.
Of course,there are more additional component parts to consider but once you become familiar with this,it's pretty easy to just "fall into a good listening session".The reason for having it in the first place!
Btw,I have absolutely no gripes regarding "many" of the pivoting designs(I have one myself),and you seem to have made a good choice,from reputation....
The only reason my friend moved on was he is getting a bit long in the tooth,and was hurting his wrists when doing some of the "infrequent" pump/component maintenance....He has his own very close-knit group of 12.6 arm fans,and they influenced him to make the change.
Actually, he is quite happy,as he should be....There are SO many unique ways to voice a system that, at least to me,it's really nice to hear all of different musical presentations,that each seperate hobbyist has gotten from his own take on a good rig!...The real reason I like to follow these threads.
Best of luck |
Btw,forgot to mention,the "pivoting arm" I alude to IS a unipivot!
Sorry for not being more specific |
Personally I never went into my friend's home(the Air Tangent guy....Btw,his pump was highly modified,and the bass was amazingly good/deep/powerful...in case someone decides to "go on" about air bearings hurting bass)thinking about the business of "tangency" as it compares to a pivot,and "leaning" towards "wanting" to hear his set-up in "any" specific way!...
Or anything else,other than simply enjoying the plethora of amazing LP's he always surprises me with(an understatement).
I could care less about the technical aspects of the hobby(to a point)as it is with experience,and the "you just know it",from "that" experience which drives my own approach.....So,technically I am a little above clueless-:)
One thing I "DO" know is....a superb linear/air bearing arm(a "really" good one)just "lets" a great set-up "open into a listening room better"(to me)than anything else,which happens to be attached to the cartridge!....
Nothing too technical.Just simple,repeatable observations.Alot of 'em!
Yes,I definitely think that the issue of "resonant characteristics" is at play here(to whatever degree)....
The lack of any hard contact points(within the bearing),which is a bone of contention to me....This just "has to have some sonic signature"(whether unipivot,or fixed pivot)that is affecting the "flow of musical info",on a pivot of "any" type!!No matter how exotic the bearing material is....I definitely am theorizing here,but DO believe it,as one aspect/benefit of air bearing greatness.
That is "not" to say one cannot get "superb" performance from such designs,and "definitely" the "minutiae" of set up will definitely yield the "magic" we look for.....Btw,from what I have seen,many are all to easily fooled,because it is way to easy to get "good" as opposed to "great" sound.So they stop fotzing around with set up a little sooner than the "fanatics" do....
This I can understand,because of the "pain in the tush factor",with setting up to the "N'th" degree....I have been known to wear my tennis sweatbands during set ups,and I'm damn tired of it,to be honest.One reason why I "now" charge my friends two/five glasses of really good wine,for my setup services -:)
BUT, my ears tell me music is "more organic,more right" with a great air/linear design....Whether I am "thinking about" concentrating on the equipment in front of me,or not!...
For me,it's just the way it is!!
Best |
Cjfrbw,your post definitely smacks of condescending accusations....I think-:)
I'm going to assume you don't mean it,that way...but for the record,as it applies to my experience at a friend's home(who has a superb rig),I and others,have heard the differences between numerous component changes,"around the linear arm",as well as quite a few different "other" arms,and cartridges.Other component changes too.
The "jury",of other 'philes who've heard the system(over the years)absolutely concur with my "opinion".As it relates to "this" arm subject!
The truth is that my friend(and quite a few of "his" pals,whom I know quite well)are "raving fanatics",in the BEST sense!!Meaning not much....."except" that they are in the habit of A/B'ing the things that interest them.They do it alot.
There has been extensive A/B comparisons(at his home) of too many components to mention,but the "one" thing that is a fact "was" the consistant superiority of "that" linear/air bearing arm!...I have no ax to grind,on the subject(and I appologize if you did not mean to be provacative).
One reason I know this about the arm's superiority,is because it's NOT there anymore!...Everyone knows the missing ingredient,when "now" exposed to the "well it just happens to be a damn good system",but not as good as before!
Fortunately,there are more variables to good sound,so it still sounds superb...but NOT the same!
As to my own approach in posting "opinions"...I personally don't like to "word my impressions of musical satisfaction" through my own system,because I just think it a little too easy to infer how satisfied one is,with their own choices(sort of obvious,if you've slaved over a good set-up,and spent serious moola).
That doesn't mean I am anything less than extremely satisfied with the sound,but I believe one loses a little cred if they wax too much about how great their stuff is!
It also doesn't mean folks should not do it!!Many have been at this a long time,and spent a small fortune on the hobby.If they want to be enthusiastic,good for them.
In my case..if I mention that I believe something is "better",it's because it happens to "sound that way"...to ME!
Btw,my "opinion" regarding 12 vs 9.5 inch arms vs linear/air bearing.....
To me,the 12 vs 9.5 inch sonic differences,are a yawn compared to the difference between a really superb linear/air bearing,as it compares to the 12....
Just my opinion.
Best
|
My own observations tell me,that the more common posters on this forum are quite credible.Based from "following" their posts for a long enough time,to realise they know a little about good sound.How to help the masses to get there,if so inclined.
Best |
Well,you are certainly entitled to your opinion! |
"The spcial soundstage performance on LT is more a result of it's non mechanic grounded bearing that of the LT design".------
I'm going to assume this means what I've been ststing about the lower mechanicl friction of the air bearing design.....something that surely must be a reason for the Schroder's apparent reputation!
Yes,I am more concerned with this attribute,as opposed to a few degrees of tangency!
With all due respect...the arm I had been exposed to(for ten years)was "absolutely" superior to anything else I have heard(including my own choice).,,..
Those folks in my little audio group consistently confirmed this,and have more credability(to me)than some naysayers,who were not lucky enough to be present.
Aside from the more relaxed stage presentation,there is more air/depth/space between instruments/and tonal attributes....
I'd love to see someone owning a well set up Walker,or a Forsell chime in,and state that if they "did" move to a pivot(for whatever reason),they got the impression that the air/linear "arm"(I'm not talking about the table)was NOT missed....
If you haven't lived with one,I understand the doubts(on the argued theory)...that's too bad,because these "instruments" can be a doorway to better analog sound!
Best |
Well,first off my apologies if I seem to be attempting to convince anyone of "anything" being better than anything else....This "is" a hobby topic based forum,so I think I'm playing within it's parameters....
Raul,I am sure that though it is completely possible,and definitely probable that I have "not heard the "perfect arm/cartridge combination",I'm confident that "those" that I "have" heard were just as "viable" as any you have been exposed to -:)OK?
I'm totally happy to get off the apparent soap-box,some think I'm on,regarding the linear/air bearing subject.....anyone knowing me(from Audiogon threads)should realize that I like to "go on" about certain topical subjects....Those which appeal to my own "personal" thoughts....I DO admit to "loving" this subject.
I really don't have any vested interest in convincing "anyone" about "anything",and the subject of linear/air bearing designs came up,so you have my "opinion"....If anyone thinks it is ego driven,then I am truly sorry....'cause it is ONLY "hobbyspeak"!...ALWAYS WILL BE -- "JUST THAT".
Now,for the curious.....
A few months ago,Hi-Fi Plus ran a superb article/review comparing a few highly regarded 12 inch arms(they actually ran two seperate reviews,but I'm speaking about the latest article)....The review and "somewhat comparisons" included(from memory)the superb Brinkman 12 incher,a "way cool looking"(yet looks to be a Triplanar rip-off)Chinese Unipivot(the Tri is not a uni,but the resemblance to it is almost incriminating),another high priced pivot AND a comparison to a "very reasonably priced" air bearing/linear design("this air/LT arm was at least half the price of the pivots in the review)....
The reviewer(yeah,I know,don't believe all reviews)loved a few of the pivots,but what stood out to me,was his enthusiasm for the Linear/Air bearing "el-cheapo" design!They are not ALWAYS expensive.
His impressions(opinions)were to describe the "sonic signature" as they appear to anyone with enough exposure to the "flavor" of this type of analog instrument....Basically he loved it,and felt in the area of "lack of a resonant signature" it was magical....Not the exact words,but close enough....half the price of the other commonly preferred pivots(which are great arms,btw).
There was another online review of another very low priced air/linear tracker(I "think" it was on Enjoy the Music site),where the "exact same" enthusiasm was relayed to the reader,but "that" arm was even lower in cost than the first!I don't think it was more than around eight hundred dollars,but the owner is supposed to buy the pump,which as designed is not expensive at all(think aquarium pump pricing)....
Here we had two quite low priced LT/Air Bearing arms(they are not all priced in the Kuzma Airline range),where the enthusiasm of the particular hobbyist/reviewer was "way over the top" for the arms in question,and the comparisons to the "High Priced" pivots were eye opening....What can I say?....I'm sure there is plenty for "some" to nit-pick here.
My point is "ONLY" for those interested in persuing this type of arm(I believe the question "was" asked on this thread)....
Myself?....Well I have always been happy with my Graham arms,and have no interest in making any changes...but I can attempt to be open minded,and offer an "opinion",based on exposure....Like everyone else!
You can agree,completely disagree,or find some detail to nit-pick....
It's all fine by me! -:)
Best
|
The Cartridge Man is the first arm,I believe!I cannot remember the second one.Btw,I did hear the Brinkman this winter...thought it was beautifully made,and loved the sound of the system it was in.
Why the concern regarding my punctuation? |
There just happens to be a NEW series II Graham Phantom out,as of now!....Supposedly some "serious" mods have been made to it!
If I'm lucky,I'll have it in about a week or two.Along with a newly modded pre/phonostage(new V-teflon caps and a new figamajig P/S....power factor correction circuitry)....
Maybe I'll feel differently about my previous experiences with my pal's wonderful LTT set-up.Of course I'd be shocked if I could match what I've heard in the past,but I'm confident I'll have a pretty acceptable level of performance.
Only problem is the 400 hour break-in of the new phonostage caps.I'm not one to leave something on continuously to break it in.
So,acording to the jabs I've been getting from my friends,I should have some meaningful feedback by Thanks Giving -:)
At least I'll be able to play LP's again.Something ALL of "you" guys have been able to do,that I could NOT for WAY too long!....
Hence,my angst! |
One thing I love about the approach of "so" many hobbyists,on this forum and from personal associations,is the desire to try and "push the envelope".
There are loads of amazing system approaches,and they all interest me.I'm not about to favor any one system approach as the best,mainly because I've heard alot of really good different set-ups.
So,this business of the "older tables" making a comeback,along with some pretty basic arms could be quite valid.It's fun too see how enthusiastic some guys are,and how far they are willing to go,to dig out the best from a viable component.
In the case of the Air Tangent Arm,my exposure tells a different story than yours, Albert.Yet,I totally "know for sure" you know what you are doing,and have been at the hobby for a long time.
I feel you've known abouy my enthusiasm for this arm from past posts,just as you've mentioned, in times before this one, that you were unhappy with the bass from the arm.
I got it!
My point being,that as it is understandable,and viable,to take the older tables(like the Garrard etc)and try to get the most out of them(some folks re-wire/re-work an older "classic" pivot arm too),many have passed them by as well.Many speaker designs are also seeing a comeback,with new approaches to componentry.
As in the case of the Air Tangent,I had two friends owning the arm.I was much friendlier with Sid,who collaborated with friend B.
They were not so inclined to move past the initial loss of bass quality(not an accusation,btw)which was definitely there,in the stock arm!I'm sure you tried the options available to you.
As I've mentioned in past posts,about the arm(because I loved what it was ultimately able to allow a cartridge to retreive)BOTH Sid and friend B went to the extent of finding a significantly different pump.They scoped out "quite a few" before coming up with the final one.What can I say?It worked.Too many folks were as amazed as me!It does happen,from time to time!
This was expensive,and took up rediculous amounts of room.Not to mention the noise(it had to be in a different room,and in between two pillows,in a closet).You really had to laugh(in a good way)upon seeing this commitment(not unlike the things you currently do,which I love,btw).
Far more air pressure,and there were most likely other little tid bits,I was not privy to.These guys are as serious as you!
This was a "profound" improvement in bass and overall performance.It is "this" change(mostly) that made that arm as fabulous as the many folks who've heard it felt(some you probably know).It was consistantly confirmed that it was in another league,now.
I had always been bowled over by the organic quality of the LP reproduction,especially in the bass.
I like to bloviate about this(sorry),because I simply loved the system with it in use....but sadly it is gone.I don't think I am crazy....maybe a little -:)
Don't get me wrong.I'm not denying your impressions,but just as you go to the lengths to rework a crossover(it must be superb),others are willing to take some components to the max,as well.
In the case of the A/T I heard it too many times,in a very high res/full freq set-up to think I was dreaming -:)
THAT's one of the things that is so much fun about the hobby...you just never know for sure .....
What "Riply" stated would apply here.
Best |
Raul,who said there has to be any winner here?....You're reading too deeply into my comments,especially in lieu of my previous explanation of why I am enthused about "so much" of the componentry,and different approaches in the hobby.
Also,it is completely valid for me to appreciate the performance of "any" component in a friend's set-up,since I've heard it as much as my own system,and have had enough opportunities to compare to others.
BTW,I am not trying to compare any LTT arm with any pivot(I "DO" own a pivot,as you know).Where did you come to that conclusion?
All I am doing is giving my impressions about a particular LTT arm.Set up a specific way,which gave a contrary performance to well respected,likeable hobbyist's experience....I'm not trying to be argumentative at all(learned my lesson a long time ago) -:)
One of the "original" questions asks if LTT is superior to a unipivot?Being that I have owned and liked a few unipivots,and having a load of exposure to the AT/LTT(as set up in a system I knew well)I am offering an opinion that is contrary to Albert's...
My intent was to draw a similarity to other well known,but not always appreciated components,that some hobbyists "were" able to get "more" from.Like it's NOt possible?
No intent to denigrate anyone!!!!!I LOVE reading everyone's opinions,and personal experiences.
Just my own answer to "one" of the two original questions.Just my opinion,that...."I consider LTT superior"!
Btw,I can "easily" see how this can seem a bit defensive,on my part,so I'll just shut up and take my lumps should any come my way -:)
Best. |
Raul,this is the "ONE" time(in almost ten months) that your "Enjoy The Music" signature expression may apply to me!
I "MAY" finally be close to getting my system operational again.Awaiting the updated pre/phonostage,and "another" new Phantom series II....
If you don't hear from me for awhile it will mean one of two things..
1- I am able to listen again,and am having fun voicing the st-up!
2- I am still having system problems,and have decided to shoot myself(or a particular mfgr,and dealer, both who'll remain nameless...."for the time being") -:)
Enjoy "your" music! |
Raul, "Sounds great"(great sound) is something I haven't heard for a LONG time!...
If I'd had a simple answer to a basic question(from a clueless dealer),or a piece of info in the instruction sheets of a "new" product I got,I'd have had NO problems at all!!....
Of course the "issue" cause failure in other components,that I was able to turn into an upgrade,but the wife is "peeved",and thinks I ought to send the bill to the mfgr!
Of course this isn't something I'd do,yet ya just don't want to get the little woman too pissed off -:)
Best...enjoy your(and all others)music. |
The physics regarding some weaknesses of linear design is plausible,but "man" do some of these things sound good!!!
Btw,I had a friend who owned,and loved,the "Versa".It sounded very good,but it almost never got through an LP without sticking,or something like that.So,I definitely buy into Atmosphere's comments.....as usual.
Best. |
Just in case anyone is looking to explore the viability(and affordability)of a nice LTT arm,I found a very reasonably priced design by searching around the web.... There is a link on Arthur Salvatore's site,but it can be found [email protected] The arm is called "The Terminator",and there is a nice review(one I read awhile ago,which caused my own curiousity and interest). The reviewer kinda goes "bananas"(a good thing)over the arm,and loves it... The price looks to be quite low,for a "supposedly good" Linear Tracking Arm...it's 470 British Pounds,plus 15 British Pounds for shipping.The user(if located in the U.S.)is supposed to buy the air pump though.A decent pump should be quite inexpensive,if I correctly understand the information given. Please understand I am ONLY trying to give some information about LTT arms that won't break the bank(for those interested parties)in price,and it is ONLY hobby talk!! Personally I am not about to abandon my unipivot,but certainly do appreciate the alternative sonic benefits that the LTT's can offer.....I envy those(like T.H.)who can run multiple arms/cartridges....Something I never used to even think about,but do now.....Lucky dogs -:) Good luck |
