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Thiel replacements

I'm thinking about purchasing replacements for my Thiel 3.5s. For some reason, I can't get the speakers to disappear. I get a center image, whether its vocals or guitar, but that's about where the soundstage ends. All other instruments appear to be coming directly from the speakers. It really stinks! Is this just a characteristic of Thiel speakers? I don't see how it could be, though, as many people think very highly of them.

I don't think the room is the problem, but here are the dimensions. They are along the short wall. The room is 13' X 19', the speakers are 8' apart, I sit 9' from them, and they are about 5' from the front wall. The left speaker basically has no side wall next to it, as it's next to a large opening which connects the living room to the dining room. The right speaker is about 3' from the side wall. They are currently slightly toed in, which seems to be the best. I have tried them at all different severities of toe.

Speaker polarities are correct, unless of course there is a problem inside one of the speakers themselves, but I doubt it. The EQ box had just been gone over by Thiel, so it should be ok.

My components are: Jolida jd100 cd player, Anthem Pre1L preamp, Classe CA-200 amplifier, and all cables are Jon Risch designs which utilizing Belden coaxial cable. The ICs are twisted pairs and the speaker wires are cross connected coaxial cables.

I don't know if I should consider new speakers, spend several more weeks moving these around the room, or ?????? Any suggestions would be great, whether they are tweaks or whatever. I look forward to hearing what the pros have to say! Hopefully it will help my system perform the way it should.

Thanks,
kevin
ketchup

Showing 1 response by akaddict

akaddict
51 posts
 

I agree with almost every point in the messages above. I have had 2.2's (an older design like yours) for about 10 years.

What you have described is so foreign to my experience that I suspect something is wrong with your equipment. In my experience Thiels are one of the great coherent, disappearing speakers. However they must be set up properly. Thiel recommends they be faced straight forward with no toe-in. But I liked them best when they were toed in just a few degrees. Absolutely didn't like them pointed directly at the listening area.

Also, in my experience they need some space behind them to breathe. Where the Martin Logan image is forward and in your face (for example), the Thiel image is 3D behind the speakers, and almost never up to the plane of the speakers. To get this effect I couldn't have them up against a wall. Mine needed several feet behind them, and I typically kept them 5-7 feet into the room. I never had much of an image past the side of the speakers (except Q-sound recordings).

I was getting ready to upgrade them last year (seeking additional detail and dynamics) so I took them into a dealer to compare them to B&W N801s. When I put them on the expensive Krell/Wadia gear they improved so much I upgraded every other component in my system first.

You might test them at a dealer (any dealer with a larger room), and if they still don't work then ask an electical technician to check your cross-overs.

Best wishes to you in your journey.
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