Hi Speedy,
I'll absolutely have to get together with you and Doug when I make my way back East (this Summer?). I'm a native New Yorker. Some say I wear it all to obviously - others are surprised to hear it ... whatever.
I'm just drooling to show Doug how a Galibier sounds against his Teres (Doug ... no doubt you can teach me a thing or two about Triplanar setups - I've not lived with any for long enough to really get to know them).
Speaking of Doug and ZYX cartridges, you all may not be aware that Audio-Note UK is blasting out the Trans-476 MC step-ups at 170 GBP each.
These are a much nicer match for the lower DCR's Lyras, ZYXs, etc. than the very nice S&B's which I also own.
Peter Qvortrup tells me that the 476's will be around for a while. He has miles of silver wire, and apparently enough core material. Of course, he'd love to sell you his new generation trannies at $2K (USD) for the pair.
I should be receiving my 476's within the next couple of weeks, and will report back.
-----
Ah yes, the days of Borg, Connors, McEnroe (I still can't find myself liking that incredibly talented brat), Nastase (another maniac), Villas. I can only now bring myself to watching tennis when Federer is playing - the first fellow since Stephan Edberg (and maybe Geruliits) whom I can bear to watch.
I understand the need for more gear - trust me ... I'm an incurable gear head. With a handle like Sirspeedy however, get to the ball a bit sooner, turn your shoulder, and let that topspin rip down the line. A new racket can't replace technique. I know ... given equal technique, superior gear wins out. It's one of the problems I have with watching professional cycling. I think they should raise the weight minimum on the bikes to say, 19 Lbs (about 8.6 Kilos).
I haven't played tennis for quite some time, but it's one of the few games I've ever been passionate about - along with fly-fishing, climbing, skiing and riding.
Cheers,
Thom |
Hi Doug,
You can still get an Olympus. It takes is some leg work however, along with the requisite cost of entry.
You need to first locate a Lyra Parnassus with platinum magnets (not the Parnassus DCT). All you're after are the magnets. If you want to buy some time to listen to the Parnassus, then by all means it should be a working cartridge.
Lyra will then build an Olympus for you - recycling only the magnets. For reasons I don't understand, the Platinum magnets are unobtanium, but if you provide them, an Olympus can be yours.
Cheers,
Thom @ Galibier |
Hi George,
Because my armboards allow for adjusting the p-s distance, the choice of protractor (and alignment) determines everything in a straightforward and simple manner.
The short answer is that I used a Baerwaald alignment.
Think of an SME tonearm where the offset angle is frozen because the headshell has mounting holes instead of slots. The SME adjusts p-s distance by moving the arm on a rail to achieve the correct alignment. By moving the arm on its rail, you change the pivot to spindle distance and therefore the overhang (overhang = effective length minus pivot-spindle distance)
Since for a given alignment there is only one combination of offset angle for any one effective length/pivot to spindle distance, the problem is reduced to one adjusting the p-s distance (overhang) to "null out" at the two Baerwaald (or alignment of your choosing) points - dialing in the correct overhang in the process.
People are reading too much into my mechanical sound comment. This is was only an attempt to describe the arm and is relevant *only* in comparison to the Schroeder Reference which is to my experience in a class by itself. The MX-282 is a very fine arm and as a whole, it is not mechanical sounding ... unless you hold it up against a Schroeder.
------
I did some more playing over the weekend, both with the MX-282 as well as a Triplanar. The cartridges in question were a Benz LP and a Denon DL103R. These two arms are far more alike than they are different. If I had a perfect cartridge (which was a compliance match to the MX-282 arm, of course), I'd likely opt for the MX-282 over the Triplanar.
There is an important real world caveat however. A cartridge is only perfect by sheer luck. In this day and age, it's difficult to count on them being so. Jonathan Carr (Lyra) recently posted on Audio Asylum that he goes through all sorts of grief with his supplier of cantilevers/tips and can only get them to agree to +/- one degree alignment.
Jonathan would specify half that if he could. This comment alone should emphasize the importance of being able to compensate for the real-world manufacturing difficulties of hand made items like high performance cartridges.
In this very important practical respect, I have to give the nod to the Triplanar over the MX-282. I have growing intolerance for any arm of world-class pretenses that does not permit azimuth adjustment.
Even with the "lowly" Denon DL 103R cartridge, you can hear the effect of "spot on" azimuth.
Now, the DL 103R and its conically tipped brethren are fairly benign when the azimuth is not quite right. You won't hear any real nasties, and will never know that it is out of adjustment. If you have an arm capable of adjusting the azimuth however, only then will you get the magic it is capable of however.
Sorry to get on a rant about this. I'm dreadfully behind in replying on this thread and these above comments had some relevance to earlier posts ... even though their questions you didn't ask.
Cheers,
Thom @ Galibier |
Gosh,
You're all making me blush, but I humbly accept the compliments. I can take the good with the bad. Those of you who want to see photos of Larry and his rig, can see it on my Owner's page:
http://www.galibierdesign.com/systems_larry_keatts.html
All that I can tell you about availability is that Frank shoots for 4 months, but has been dreadfully behind this year. He lost a month alone due to a repetitive strain injury. Frank is working back toward this 4 month goal, but I strongly suspect this won't be reached before the end of the year. My best guess is that the average wait time is holding at 5 months.
Larry had a requirement for a custom length arm cable, and Garth's (Incognito wire) move from the Continent to Canada threw a further monkey wrench into the scheduling of his arm. He was great about it, and I know it's not easy to wait after you've made such a commitment.
Because all Schroeder dealers have limited arm availability due to world-wide demand, it becomes difficult to hedge your bets and to pre-order. At the beginning of the year, I pre-order 40% of my annual tonearm allotment by ordering Model-2's with Pertinax arm wands along with extra (brass) cartridge carriers.
Of course, I need to leave the remaining 60% for the remaining yearly demand - for References and DPS's which are impossible to preconfigure due to the list of available options to choose from, as well as for any other Model-2's.
So, depending on the time of the year, a Model-2 can arrive at your door anywhere from 2 weeks to 5 months. If any Schroeder dealer promises you a 2 month wait however, I would query him as to exactly what this means. I've pondered the idea of pre-ordering a 9" Jacaranda arm wand Reference (this is ideal for 90% of my Schroeder customers), but as soon as I do, I know they'll fall out of fashion.
When we set up Larry's arm, I commented to him that the problem with good arms like Schroeders and Triplanars is that you think you're done, when you have achieved perhaps only an "80% setup". The arms are so good, that unless you fiddle a bit, you may never realize how good they really are.
I'm planning on producing a setup DVD by the end of the year to help people through not only Schroeder setups (although this will be the focus) but all tonearms. There are so few competent dealars extant, that this has become a necessity.
Choosing between Shroeders and fine gimbaled arms is indeed a matter of taste, and I would be the last person to tell you that a Triplanar is chopped liver. Of course, I sell them because I believe in them as being a very viable option. The Micro Seik MX-282 that Flyingred heard (with a DL 103R) is a stunning tonearm - in the league of the Triplnar and the Schroeder. While my listening biases lean toward the Schroeder, I could easily live with a Triplanar or my Micro forever. Different compromises.
One should not get the impression that because I devote less "real estate" on my website to Triplanars that they are not deserving of your attention. Quite the opposite is the case. The Schroeder section developed primarily due to all of the misinformation out there about the arms.
As I worked my way through all of this, and reviewed my understanding with Frank, the pages evolved to the extend they have. I'm proud to have what I consider to be the best organized Schroeder page on the web. I've compiled posts Frank has made on several forums and provided the links on my Schroeder FAQ's page. Frank addresses the issues of arm wand selection, cartridge compatibility, and other commonly asked questions.
Cheers,
Thom @ Galibier |
Hi Frank, all ...
Not only does a link to your "keeper" post land on my Schroeder FAQ page, but I'm framing it !!
Your comments have great value for owners of all tonearms - not just Schroeders. For example, I encourage Rega owners with aftermarket counterweights to play with the set screw tightness as well as their cartridge screw mounting tightness.
I recently delivered a turntable to someone who also owns a Micro MX-282. Quite a few former Platine-Verdier owners have this arm. He was quite amazed at its tuneability - an arm he had on his Platine for 3 years.
-----
In my setup procedure, I had been working by starting with the counterweight, then moving to the other parameters (headshell screws, magnet spacing). I would begin with a close magnet spacing and then tune for air and bloom by working the counterweight set screw tightness. From there, I'd work back to the magnet spacing and headshell screw.
This procedure has gotten me to 99% of the bass performance of my Micro Seiki MX-282 which I consider to be as good as any arm I've heard in this regard.
Of course, the Micro sounds like a machine (as you work your way further up the spectrum) in comparison with the organic sound of the Schroeder - a liability, in case you have any doubts about my listening biases.
My setup (as heard by Flyingred) is another case of thinking you're done when you've actually stopped before reaching the finish line. Because I listen to mostly acoustic music, I had not chased this last bit of bass performance, but you've once more inspired me to get even more out of my setup, Frank.
I need to re-emphasize something because in reading this and other threads you may get the wrong impression.
Don't for a moment consider any of these setup comments to be statements that a Schroeder is a finicky tonearm. Quite the opposite is the case. I look at this as the arm being responsive to adjustment.
As Frank and I have mentioned, much of this setup protocol is applicable to many other tonearms.
Cheers,
Thom @ Galibier |
Thanks, Raul.
I was using a standard 2-points Baerwaald alignment.
I've primarily used the dial (spring) to set tracking force - of course verifying with an accurate tracking force gauge (see http://www.galibierdesign.com/images/digital_scale_adaptor_med.jpg for my interpretation of the setup that Wally sells).
I'll set the indicator for say 2.5 gms (Denon DL103R) and then adjust the counterweight until I read this on the scale.
I haven't played much with setting the spring force to zero. I know I have not worked to get the most out of this very fine tonearm.
Please note that when I said "mechanical" it was only in comparison with the Schroeder. I was searching for a means if differentiating the two arms.
I haven't used any damping - primarily because I move arms around so much that I hate making messes :-(( My suspicion (allowing of course for the very real possibility of being wrong), is that I'll prefer the arm undamped. There's only one way to know for certain however.
You are absolutely correct - that I need to give this arm more attention. I can no doubt get it to sound even better.
Cheers,
Thom |
Hi Raul,
Yes, the folks at Micro Seiki were real maniacs.
Did you know that the last year (or two?) of their operation they were owned by the Pilot Pen company?
I don't know more about this story, but can well imagine it involves an audiomaniac member of the board who pushed this purchase, with the Board finally "wising up" to this acquisition ... driving a stake into its heart and killing Micro once and for all
Cheers,
Thom @ Galibier |
Hi Speedy,
Off topic .. I understand your competitive urge at the tennis club. Since I was never that good, competition was all about measuring personal improvement rather than climbing to the top of the ladder.
I was (and am) terribly hard on myself however ... at least this is what I'm told. These days, it's more about maintaining rather than getting better, and the focus is more on bicycle riding, rock climbing, and back country skiing (picture of me bouldering on Flagstaff Mountain in Boulder on my blog page if you're interested).
Yes, you're preaching to the choir as far as bass is concerned. A culture of MP-3's, THX home theater and boombox audio ... very sad, IMHO.
Cheers,
Thom @ Galibier |
Hi Speedy, Raul ...
I know what you mean about off-topic. OTOH, I've come to the opinion that these sorts of things help all of us get to know each other better.
One of the problems we face behind a keyboard is that we sometimes gain too much "courage" and hurt feelings ensue. Some of these off-topic bonding sessions can make the on-topic conversations more meaningful. It can help us triangulate on who the poster is and how to interpret their comments more meaningfully.
To Raul ... I may have come on too strongly, and for this I apologize. I absolutely consider the MX-282 to be one of the great tonearms. Ah ... if I could only make it jump through the azimuth hoop, but that's a whole other story.
People who have met me are shocked that I'm the same guy they see on their computer screen. The frequent comment is that this (sometimes) obnoxious, (mostly) nerdy, New Yorker type is such a Mister Mellow Dude in person. This was one reason I put up the blog page on the website. For better or worse, I figure people knowing more about me can't hurt.
This e-mail and forum stuff can get a bit impersonal at times, and any way we can bridge past this is a good thing.
Back to our regularly scheduled programming ...
Cheers,
Thom |
Hi Raul,
The "J" shaped 'Seikis have always intrigued me. I have an MA-505 Mk III (straight, removeable arm wand) which is on lone to a friend. Another friend has a MK I version of the arm which is indeed "J" shaped with removable headshell.
It's been on my mind to bring a Sumiko headshell I have lying around in my parts box to experiment with Azimuth adjustment for him.
The Sumiko headshell is quite nicely made - machined from a solid aluminum billet. It has a small hex screw which locks down a collet. When loosened, you can adjust the azimuth.
Considering its price of $40, I'd recommend that anyone with a universal headshell tonearm pick one of these up before Sumiko decides to stop making them (disclaimer - no affiliation or commercial interest ...). I've seen them for sale at the Needle Doctor.
Cheers,
Thom |
Hi all,
The whole res. freq. thing is certainly intriguing. Keep in mind that you can go a bit lower than the 10hz number depending on the turntable you're running.
This 10-12Hz range was arrived at as a means of splitting the difference between 20 Hz and the res. freq. of a typical turntable's suspension (3-5 Hz). With an unsuspended 'table you can go a bit lower.
Having said that, a Benz LP is a poor match for both the MX-282 and an 18 gram Ebony arm wand Schroeder Reference. In both arms it is a bit sluggish sounding. OTOH, it sounds very nice in a Triplanar with its lower effective mass.
Cheers,
Thom |
Hi Doug, Raul ...
I wonder if I am doing a disservice by publishing the mass/compliance chart. I think some explanatory notes should be added and I will do so.
This all goes back to listening being the final arbiter of "goodness". I need to put some sort of advisory on the spreadsheet to the effect that treating the numbers as being an instant recipe for success is just not possible.
The idea was keep people from starting off with completely wacky combinations like a Shure with an SME 3012R. Now, some have reported success with weird combinations, and I'm not saying that it isn't possible If you were a gambling man however, it wouldn't be the smart place to start, unless (through lists like this) you hear reports of special combinations making magik.
If people get out of this that once you "run the numbers", you are done, they will likely be stopping short of the finish line.
As both of you have wisely observed, the numbers are only the beginning of the story. As you have no doubt have experimented, two different combinations resulting in the same res. freq. can result in one combination sounding at or near its best, with the other one sounding ... er ... suboptimal.
The Benzes seem to be one example of it being dangerous to go too low - below 8 or 9 Hz (as observed - not calculated). OTOH, Denons and Dynavectors for example are quite happy down in that range - at least on unsuspended decks.
Cheers,
Thom |
Yup! What y'all said.
Last night I put in the caveat on my spreadsheet for the unsuspecting.
It's interesting - I'm also finding the maximum safe bottom f. res. at about 9 Hz. A bit lower can work with some carts. but 9 seems to be safe number (solid stand, unsuspended deck).
What is obvious to us, is not always obvious to the newbie.
Cheers,
Thom |
Hi Jhendrixfan,
I'm not sure who's "panoply of equipment" you're referencing. If it's Dmailer's, his signal path is quite straight-forward and neutral. You can view it here:
http://www.galibierdesign.com/systems_larry_keatts.html
Yes, there are better MC step-ups out there, and Dave Slagle's (Intact Audio) is one of them. One thing at a time ...
Maybe you're referring to someone else's panoply?
Cheers,
Thom @ Galibier |
Not only that (Dan-ed's comments), but adding any sort of bonding agent may interrupt energy transmission.
Think of everything as a material - even a thin bonding layer.
Better to wank down on some bolts to join the two layers together. This, at least is reverseable.
Cheers,
Thom @ Galibier |
