Quite a few Bricasti M21 DACs for sale cheap

I see 2 FS on Agon and 2 FS on USAM none of them are the latest versions that have both the LAN connection & IS2 connection. I feel it's their best DAC. I use their M12 b/c I listen to 80% vinyl and the M12 has one analog input.

(Dealer disclaimer)

Bricasti can upgrade their DACs to current specs. Current spec would include new display (red dot display is the older version), and current MDX (relatively inexpensive). Having both i2S and LAN inputs is not standard spec (at least it’s not shown on the Bricasti Design website), but I believe they can install both inputs if asked. It’s a custom job that requires machining the rear plate. @sksos may know more about this.

If one is able to buy an older Bricasti DAC at a good price, then it might be cost effective to have Bricasti upgrade it versus buying new.

Reach out first to Brian Zolner for upgrade options and pricing. Have the serial number ready from the DAC under consideration.

A quick search on HiFiShark returns four listings for M21 DACs. Two listings are from the same seller. There are two others listed. A total of three. None are current models (the displays are red dot displays), which explains the pricing. Internally, other than the possibility of an older MDX version, there’d be no difference from a new M21 (but reach out to Bricasti Service with the serial numbers, and Joe can verify configuration and update history).

Thanks for the additional info. I didn't know there was an updated version of the M2 one. Food for thought. That's why I come to Audiogon. 

Just spoke with the mothership. You are correct, the M21 display has been upgraded (for $400) but otherwise, no internal changes. A bargain bordering on a steal. 

Having both i2S and LAN inputs is not standard spec

Going forward I believe this will be "standard" having both the LAN & IS2 connections. I brought my own M12 to the Bricasti factory and had the back panel machined to add the IS2 port hole and then they installed the IS2 board as well. I do use their new M19 transport with the IS2 connection and it sounds superb! 

Dealer disclaimer

I brought my own M12 to the Bricasti factory and had the back panel machined to add the IS2 port hole and then they installed the IS2 board as well. I do use their new M19 transport with the IS2 connection and it sounds superb!

@sksos, yours must be the customized M12 I read about that informed me of the possibility.

@tvad I have the M12 not a M21. Not customized just wanted to have BOTH a LAN & IS2 port available so I can switch back and forth between streaming and the M19. We also had another unit updated for a good customer here as well. 

@sksos, I edited my post to correct M21 to M12. Your clarification is duly noted.

If having both LAN and i2S inputs is not standard, and an additional input was added by machining the rear plate and adding an i2S card, then I consider this customization. You might consider it upgrading. I think it’s semantics. The take-away is it’s possible for a fee.

Had this been offered when I updated my M1 SE to M1 Series 2 a year ago, then I would have done it.

The mothership just called me back to tell me that there is a new MDX board. $800. Unclear as to whether or not it's user installed. 

Looking to go from M3 to M1S2. I don’t think I care for the new blue display and on top of it I just turn all of the displays off anyway. 
Did Joe mention any sonic improvements with the new MDX board?

@audphile1,

I also installed the Bricasti MDx upgrade board in my Bricasti M21. My system sounds clearer, smoother, more engaging with more musical details. I like it very much and also highly recommend the MDx board upgrade.

Please read the instructions carefully since it requires you disconnect some cables, remove the old board and install the new board. I had someone help me and the job took about 45 minutes (we moved very slowly).

@hgeifman thanks for this info! Very helpful!

@tvad Had this been offered when I updated my M1 SE to M1 Series 2 a year ago, then I would have done it.

Bricasti had been working on the dual ports for awhile, I beleive I was one of the very 1st to have it completed, this happened in mid Feb of this year. There was a LOT of testing to be completed by Bricasti but it's one of the great things about this company. Most units can be sent back (for a fee) to have almost any updates done. GREAT COMPANY

Not a comment on Bricasti just used prices in general 50% of retail is the norm or at least it used to be so a $16K item selling for $8-10K seems about right.

They are for sale cheap because they are garbage, let me take one off your hands for $2k..... 🤣

The reason there's so many for sale is because people are finding out that the Wyred4sound 10th anniversary DAC for $4,500 is much better than the bricasti, I was on their site and they're also out of the silver version only the black version left so people are definitely snapping them up.

@tucutrer

I like my Bricasti M21 DAC very much because it sounds great. The DAC has a 24-bit delta sigma DAC, a 20-bit ladder DAC and true 1 bit DSD for DSD content. It includes an Ethernet connection so the M21 is recognized as a DNLA device and becomes a powerful media renderer.

I switched my music streaming to using Audirvana Studio software on my MAC Laptop Computer (14-inch MacBook Pro M2 12 Core/19CPU). I use Audirvana Studio remote on my iPad to find the albums, playlists, etc. My Bricasti 21 DAC connects to the Internet using an Ethernet cable. This setup has resulted in my music being clearer and more open (replaced my Aurender sever). The Audirvana Studio interface is excellent and is easy to use (yes, there is a slight learning curve).

The removal of the music streamer and having the Bricasti DAC connect to the Internet and then to my MAC computer has removed a layer from the Music and made it more musical and clearer. I was not expecting this much improvement. The use of Audirvana Studio App has substantially improved my sound quality very much.

As an example of great product support, my Bricasti DAC was upgraded for $1,000. Their MDx board replaced the existing board in the DAC. The next Bricasti upgrade was a free firmware chip program that needed to be inserted into the DAC to complete the upgrade. Both upgrades greatly improved the DAC for a very reasonable cost. This is an example of a company supporting its customers.

The reason there's so many for sale is because people are finding out that the Wyred4sound 10th anniversary DAC for $4,500 is much better than the bricasti, I was on their site and they're also out of the silver version only the black version left so people are definitely snapping them up.

Hmmm, could it be the '10th anniversary' DACs are out of stock because they were released in the late 2017 timeframe? :)

I'm happy with mine.  Going to stream Qobuz now using Audirvana.  Agree with @hgeifman 's comments about the M21.

Bricasti OWNERS ONLY:

The Bricasti web site says “The MDx was implemented in production on all products starting January 2020, and is now available for upgrades. In keeping with our upgrade philosophy, all past D/A converter products are eligible for the MDx upgrade including all versions of the M1, M3, M12, and M21”. 

I asked Bricasti its explain how this applies to my Bricasti M21 DAC.  They said "An updated MDx will gain me nothing sonically. The newer revision is solely for the implementation of the new graphics display and IS2 for the M19 Transport. The M21 is identical sound-wise”.

That is what Joe told me as well when I expressed interest to update the MDx1.09 on M3 to the latest. I didn’t pursue it further as I trust Joe knows what he’s talking about.

To answer the original question, some of these M21 could be floor models/demo units.   And businesses should demo the newest model, with the new screen.  

Anyone that still has the pre-MDx upgrade, it is well worth the money to upgrade it.  Based on my experience of pre-MDx and with the MDx in an M3.  

I currently have an M21 and love it, part of me wants the new display, but without any sonic improvement, i'll hold off.

And to also answer the original question, it could be anything.  People are always selling and buying.  Who cares.  The better question is what DAC’s have you listened to and, more important, what DAC do you really like because it sounds great in your system. 

I own the Bricasti M21 DAC in my main audio system and the Benchmark DAC3 HGC in my 2nd system.  

@kilkil all M3 DACs had MDx boards from day 1.

Have a new M1SE DAC with network card. Stream qobuz via audirvana . Couldn't be more pleased. Robert

The Grimm Mu2 is getting a lot of chatter. You may see some Bricasti owners going that way. 

I listened to both the M21 and the Grimm MU2 at AXPONA 2024 last week. Both are outstanding in many regards, but the Grimm may be a bit better in depth and in resolution. Playing the 4th movement of Beethoven's 9th Symphony through the MU2 was a revelation; I never before heard the chorus so well delineated (in the clarity of individual voices.

That said, I am still tending towards the M21 for my next DAC. My reasons are very down to earth. Bricasti, a US company, has a well-earned reputation for outstanding customer support, whereas Grimm Audio is a new entrant into both the US and into consumer products. In addition, the MU2's reliability is not yet established because it is so new and has so few units in the field. In contrast, the M21 is both a highly flexible and outstandingly performing DAC and one with an outstanding reputation for reliability.

I recently added a Bricasti M21 to my system. The M21’s ladder DAC is an interesting option to have.

I have to say, comparing the M21 to my M1 Series II shows how close the two Delta Sigma DACs are in every aspect. The M1 Series II is for sale, but I could easily decide to keep it and sell the M21. They’re that close.

Bricasti M21 DAC system vs. my system (modded Oppo BDP-95).

In below video, people's voice and the music sound are contrastic. 

My system  Alex/WTA

@mihorn, I am impressed at your ability to discern differences between DACs playing in two different rooms (one a hotel room), on two different systems apparently without any similar components between them, from YouTube videos.

@tvad would you say the M21 and M1S2 delta sigma DAC are more or less identical or is the difference is obvious? I’m looking to try either the 21 or the S2. Not in rush and can wait until I’m ready to swing for the 21. Thanks!

I would say the Delta Sigma DACs in the M1 Series II and M21 sound identical to me. 

The M21 has a ladder DAC, which sounds marginally different than the Delta Sigma, so it’s an additional option for the listener. 

The M1 has many more filter options, if that’s important. 

@tvad thanks!

tvad

@mihorn, I am impressed at your ability to discern differences between DACs playing in two different rooms (one a hotel room), on two different systems apparently without any similar components between them, from YouTube videos.

In my experience, the source dictates a big portion of audio system's sound. In those 2 video comparison, one is playing $16k DAC and the other is using 15 years old modded Oppo BDP-95 ($1k retail 15 yrs ago ). The sound should be predictable regardless of the room.

Also, it is the house sound. An audio company system with their flagship gears is their house sound. 

Below is my old audio show videos in hotel rooms. Though my sound is more natural and realistic now. Alex/WTA

2021 audio show

video by Audiophile Junkie (YT id)

In my experience, the source dictates a big portion of audio system’s sound.

Interesting viewpoint.

I prefer to compare components in my system because it offers a familiar baseline.

I can’t make heads or tails of systems’ sound from YouTube videos, and I definitely can’t tell what a particular component sounds like. I don’t have that skill.

I tend to think a system’s sound is holistic, although I ascribe the largest influence to speaker/amplifier pairing.

tvad

I prefer to compare components in my system because it offers a familiar baseline.

Agreed. It'll be the best option. But most cases ($10K dac?) it is hard to do. There are many videos of certain gears and listen to them to guess the sound. I've been doing that for a long time and my guess is correct almost always. Better than nothing for sure. Alex/WTA

If I am not mistaken, the M21 also has a third DAC - which is a one-bit converter for DSD streams. This additional DAC is ideal for utilizing the DSD output of SACDs as well as for converting high-resolution audio files downloaded from sources such as HD Tracks.

But most cases ($10K dac?) it is hard to do.

I have thankfully found there is usually a way to audition DACs, regardless of price. There is usually a cost. Maybe shipping both ways. A deposit. It’s worth it to me.

If I am not mistaken, the M21 also has a third DAC - which is a one-bit converter for DSD streams. This additional DAC is ideal for utilizing the DSD output of SACDs as well as for converting high-resolution audio files downloaded from sources such as HD Tracks.

That’s correct, @jmeyers. I haven’t listened to the DSD DAC. It offers the possibility of pairing with a Bricasti M19 CD/SACD transport (presently only possible on an M21), and of course playing downloaded DSD files as you mentioned. I do have a couple. I will it give a try soon.

EDIT: Yes, @audphile1, both the M3 and M1 have the 1 bit DSD DAC.

I think even the M3 has a one bit DSD converter which is selected by switching to NDSD option. That’s native DSD. You can toggle between it and the PCM. Or may be it’s implemented differently in M21. 

I hear good things about using either Roon or HQPlayer to convert all music to DSD, then feed it through the one bit converter on the Bricasti DACs. I find that almost always sounds great even when using regular Delta Sigma designs, so should work excellent with the one bit as well. 

Actually Bricasti doesn’t recommend upsampling before the DAC. I believe it’s in the manual. They’re of the opinion that the DAC sounds best when fed the original bitrate. I tried upsampling to DSD using Lumin U1 Mini and the built in network card as a roon end point using roon dsp. In both cases I preferred the sound when feeding the M3 the original bitrate. 

I also tried upsampling to DSD using Audiovana on my MAC computer to my Bricasti M21 DAC.

After listening and comparing for a couple of days, I also preferred the sound when feeding my Bricasti M21 DAC the original bitrate. I usually listen using the ladder DAC but sometimes switch to the delta sigma DAC.

Regarding the OP post, “Quite a few Bricasti M21 DACs for sale cheap”, many components are always for sale. I suggest you not worry about it and purchase what sounds good to you.

Based on my research, it does not appear that Bricasti recommends upsampling before the DAC.  The Bricasti M21 DAC provides multiple processing options, including sigma-delta, R2R, DSD as DOP, and DSD in analog. This suggests the M21 can handle different input formats without requiring upsampling. Please call Bricasti and ask them.