Point of higher priced streamer?

My point is if there is any technological aspect that I’m not aware of. It’s not just about pricing. I’m very open minded. 

If someone can tell me the technical reason, I’m more than glad to listen and learn.
Again, I totally understand spending more money for brand name and pure aesthetic. I do that too.

But when one claims there is “technically better something”, I want to know technical reasons. 

No. It’s not confirmation bias.

Not everything matters unless there are reasons.

Most of them matters - basically subjectively.

I get it. But some facts should not matter.

Dac matters, but remote control for that DAC should not matter

as long as remote control works properly.

Have you heard about audiophile grade router?

I do not find a reason for streamer yet.

Bluesoud node 2i seems to be the best deal for me. 
Indeed, mostly what I need is Airplay feature, so I can send songs being played in my iPhone to the external DAC.

The funny thing is, one of the most common (also I’m curious about this too) questions regarding node 2i is, “How to Bypass Node 2i?”

Bluesound should give an option to omit DAC. 


I totally understand more features and better build quality parts, but some prices are hard to believe in terms of this aspect. 

Sending better cleaner packet might be a reason? I’ll study more on this.

Jond,

Can you tell me how Wifi sounds better than Airplay?

All I play is 16bit/44 from ripped CD, or CD equivalent streaming services.

Lowrider 57 : I can’t edit the thread. I omit DAC.

mgrif104 : I’m not debating. More like curious.

I’m saying this because in case of DAC, its neutrality can be measured. Then designers basically do coloring. Some people like this coloring factor, some people don’t like it. Personally, I pursue peculiar coloring (it’s really specific pattern of distortion technically) for the speaker. Maybe the most among components. Then I like to maintain neutrality to fair degree for other things like Amp and DAC. 

But in case of Streamer, technically, as long as it delivers, there should be no quality difference.
At least this is my understanding.

If you feel any difference, I’m really curious what kind of technical perspectives factor in.

Fundamentally, saying streamer makes SQ difference is like stating my room router affects the sound quality and character.

Why do you think I’ve not tried that?

I compare some but don’t hear the noticeable difference.
Still there is more price gap than I can understand.
I thought that I’m the one who doesn’t hear the difference or there might be more things to consider than I know.

As I explain above, in case of DAC, manufacturers are clearly aware of neutrality. They even states something like for instance, their filter 1 provides most neutral signal, but filter 2 gets the highest point from subjective tests so they recommend filter 2. - when something is out of neutrality it’s becoming custom subjective matter, and pricing is really up to consumer’s level of desire to pay.

But in case of streaming, there is no coloring (custom) factor, as far as I understand. Thus, there is no difference in sound unless some other factors kick in. I want to know this possible other factors.

I repeat that if one simply claims that streaming has different sound, it’s same as saying different router can make different sound.

Do you hear the difference? If so what would be the possible factor?
It sounds like you hear the difference, then could you explain?

I might need to check again.

When I test it, the room is a dedicated for listening, but not even have a dedicated router. 

I start to think then, the router should matter too, if this whole thing works in that way.

ha. This thread is getting out of the hand.

Still I don’t get any information except the possibility of strong cleaner signal possiblity.

First of all, I already get a scientific answer from ASR. 
He’s a measurement guy and I trust his call.
Thing that he doesn’t like is about coloring aspect adds value.
He is straight forward neutrality guy, and I respect that.

It seems some people are offended without ability to explain in any scientific explanation. 

I will stop here.

I do not use streaming service for my serious listening. 
If Apple didn’t discontinue the product, I will consider air express.
Still Node2i can do the same thing with little more future proof, like idagio streaming. I can’t find other streamer supports Airplay 2 and Idagio. 

About tombaqui, I can simply get it. The thing is I happen to know that VA Beethoven is also pretty good with Auralic Vega. Cheap used one. And this combination was once used in Speaker demo at the show. When I can get things cheaper, I don’t want to pay more.

It’s non of your business, but I’m working for medical industry and travel to do something with this pandemic based on invitation, so once I get PCR tested, I get the clearance. 

Again, and finally, there is not really measurable / scientific base that I learn from here to at least discuss with ASR.
So far I try to find any measurement from manufacturers’ sites but no luck.

I guess ASR wins again in this part. 

Thank you for all the input.

Still no single scientific explanation about how the sound can be better.
(Except cleaner sound packet... at least this, I want to study.)

Okay, for some people here. Let me provide some reference.
My budget is about $50k. Not much for some, maybe big for some.
I’m on business trip in Asia, and my business partner here is in a local audiophile group spending 6 digit USD easily for their system (some of them show 7 digit system and I could have a dinner while listening his system all night long). And he is more than glad to help me experiencing stuff. (Everybody loves talking about hobby isn’t it.) Thanks to his and his friends’ help, I can now do many auditions with dealers here. Due to Covid, there are not many customers too. I usually spend 5-6 hours in here just listen and compare set up. Asian hifi market is like having 10 mega dealers in one place. They seem small but somehow their stock level is impressive. They have almost everything.

Before though I was not really into gear and stuff, I happen to live in a house with B&W803D with Classe mono set up sound system. It was good but I wanted something different. Then I moved, so lived without good speakers for a while. Now I’m in shopping.

I’m a long time classical music fan, and used to go to local orchestra (LA) on monthly basis before kids in my late age, and used to travel to attend concert too (mostly vienna). I prefer live concert over speaker. I just love the energy, passion and emotion that I can feel in the live stage.

This year’s special situation makes me consider the audio system.

I don’t think I have golden ears, nor particularly good at listening.
But I know the difference among Yamaha / Steinway / Bosendorfer or Argerich / Richter playing Rachmaninoff.

Also my goals are - less maintenance possible/simple as possible.
Personally I want to listen music more, rather than shopping more. Also, my needs for new music every year is less than 20 albums per year, so for me playing musics that I already have is more important.

I don’t have a big listening space (14ft x 14ft), so optimizing speaker system is a key. I plan to hire some professional to do acoustic treatment first. Or I plan to just put some acoustic panels if it’s not that complicate.

About the system after some auditioning,

1) I decide to go with Pass Int-60.
Because I do not personally deal with tubes. They are charming, but not my style. I try bigger/separate system, the problem is with my room size and situation, sadly more money would not make noticeable difference.
-so about 9k is fixed here.

2) Speakers - It is still hard due to room size.
Also my obsession about piano sound makes the situation hard. I do not want to just buy a neutral speaker. Also bigger speakers simply do not fit in my room. So far some names I remember are Revel Salon 2, Magico, Wilson Sabrina, Vienna Acoustics Beethoven, Brodmann VC 7, Boniecke . Still I’m in search. I’m interested in horn, so I just heard Avantgarde Duo, but not sure. Sadly there are not many horn speakers in Asia somehow.
- thinking 10k - 30k here.

3) DAC - I have couple pairing in my mind for speakers so far. Mola Mola sounds interesting, but I also find some other cheaper options sound good too. In fact later I discover that the US importer uses my selection of cheaper option during the audio show. So I study, and figure out why some DACs are expensive. I get idea
- my initial budget is around 10k here but now I find a good option with significantly lower price.

4) Cables - Long story short. I want to keep Cable as fixed variable as long as possible. This, I take a advice from a guy who basically re-build his house to have totally separate power lines for his different set ups. Personally I agree. So not much money here.

5) Streamer - In fact I have much room left in terms of budget. It can be from around 8k - 22k depending on last of set up. Even minimum 8k would get me decent middle range price product.

The problem is, I simply can’t hear the difference when I switch, and dealers here do not really provide any scientific explanation. Streaming itself also should not make any sonic difference unless there is additional coloring factor.

I was curious how manufacturers implant that coloring factors to a streamer.

My question is, if you think streamer itself alone matter sound, then your room router should matter too. This is my understanding.

I have B&W duo because I needed a simple wireless speaker for home. (I don’t consider this as speaker set up though.) I have dedicated mesh network for this speaker once I realize that traffic burden on 2.4 band can deteriorate the sound quality. I use orbi. (Btw B&W duo shows the importance of system optimization. This speaker has Speaker/Amp/DAC/Streamer all in one box in a way that designers precisely intend. This creates very impressive sound quality considering its price if one like B&W house sound. Same goes for Dutch & Dutch 8c. If you do not want to play with gears and likes their house sound, especially D&D8c is really hard to beat not just in its price class but in its room size class regardless of price range.)

Do you use a separate router for streamer too?
Changing power cable of router improve sound quality?

Again, I do understand that neutrality is not the final goal for everyone including me. Certain distortion is pursued. For my business partner here, he also doesn’t think streaming alone doesn’t make difference though he has 20k streamer, simply because he wants it. (After certain wealth, people doesn’t think that much, not me. But I also do not think that much when I pick up 10-30 dollar product.)

So my study about streamer keeps going on.

And about Airplay, for me I do not have any music source better than 16/44. So airplay is sufficient. Idagio streaming (so as primephonic) also provides 16/44.
There is still big difference between Bluetooth vs Airplay. Just read technical specs.
I wish bluetooth to stream 16/44 fully in the future.

Are you saying 16/44 cd quality doesn’t make difference in system?

Honestly, most of classical music that I listen to, I do not think there is no music source better than CD quality available to consumers. If you know any source Polini’s carnegie hall performance with better than CD quality, please educate me. I’m more than willing to pay fair price for this one.

I like LPs, and consider collecting some. But in terms about sound quality alone, I think digital source is better.

So, here we go again.
I’m not that rich, but I think I can afford some range. For me, throwing money without understanding the point of it is more than meaningless. I’m totally okay with “because I just want it”. But for some parts, I simply do not want it because personally I do not see any reason. I want to at least know how things make different and want to determine whether I want to pay for it. 

After certain price point, sound becomes really subjective, and it’s all about one wants to pay for that specific customized distortion.

About the streamer.
I still don’t have much answer. Again 3 question.

1) Do you have any scientific explanation behind it?
(Again and again, I do understand why DAC and Speakers have distinctive distortion patterns and these make different price point.)
Any data I can find?

2) Does better streamer send better digital signal?

3) Does your router matter too?

Thank you.