Guido, how you doin?
OK, to answer the OP. I am one of the first to own the Veritas. I also had a demo pair on and off in my system for four months. Am I still enjoying it? Hell yes! IMHO it is one of a handful of amps that are worth owning.
I had gone through MANY amps over the years never really satisfied with the overall sound from them. ALL highly respected brands. Some expensive.
As no one piece of equipment is perfect I expect that I have to compromise but the Veritas is one of the few that has the least amount of compromise.
I have heard your brand amp many times and I can tell you that you will be more then happy with the sound of the Veritas.
The Veritas is so good that many times it will show what is the weakest link in your system. Sometimes when this happens the Veritas is made the suspect. WRONG. The smart, open minded and patient ones are rewarded with better sound and a better system.
Now some people will suggest that the Veritas is not musical, is sterile, blah blah blah. TOTALLY the opposite.
It is one of the purist,transparent,resolving,dynamic,musical and tonally accurate amps IMHO.
One more thing. Several (more really) Audiophiles that sold their Pass, ARC, Ayre, Devialet, CJ, Krell and Atma-Sphere amps and bought the Veritas after hearing it. |
"09-26-13: Teajay
Hello Ptheo,
I hope two things for you very much, first you got a great price on these mono blocks because I believe they are hideously over priced and secondly that you like their sonic's a lot more then your very good Coda. The Ncore modules used in these amps are much better sounding then other types of D amps, however I still do not find them as musical as some of the better and less expensive SS or tube amps. The Ncore modules themselves are relatively inexpensive, yet the retail price of the Merrill VERTTAS is 12K. I know you get a well built and fancy chassis, it seems it stocked with good parts, however I can't see how you could justify what these sell for."
Hi teajay.
I am curious were and in what setup you had the chance to hear the Veritas?
As far as the cost of the amps you (and some others) do not understand the TOTAL Costs involved in the markup of goods. It is FAR from just the cost of the parts in any product.
That said it all comes down to the "performance and sound" when it comes to audio. If the amps,DAC, etc sound great who cares if it a "wire with gain" or a complex 100 part piece of equipment. If the only way to have it is to buy from the OEM vs DIY then you buy the OEM. Even your Pass amps have very little inside them. It is REALLY the Engineering and Technology behind them with the Proper Implementation and Assembly that has the real value in the sale price of the amp. Sure parts matter but it is not a game of who has the most parts and whose are the biggest. But what you do with them and does it make great sound.
Look, I love the sound of the Class A Pass amps. But they are too heavy, can heat a house, too expensive, etc for me.
"hideously over priced" Really? You can say that about almost all high-end Audio. Are amps worth $30,000, $60,000 or even $200,000. Or Cables, Or DACs, Or Turntables. OR etc.
As Guido mentioned about the Pascal or Abletech tech I too am interested in hearing them. More so the Pascal. |
Hi Paul and great post! Let me see if I can help a little more.
1)("So, I bought a pair of AVM MA 3.2s monoblocks(NCore400?) from a dealer for 4K.")
No way is that an NCore 400 (NC400). It might be another Hypex module like the UCD 400 but it can not be an NC400 as Hypex forbids the NC400 be used by OEM. The NC400 is ONLY for the DIY market. I did a search and I can not find out what Class D tech they use so it could be another brand altogether. Heck it could be B&O Ice or the ones that Guido mentioned.
2)("One question, I read a review they run warm? Tell me it isn’t so.")
Well it is an amp so it is not "cool" to the touch. Also the way it is designed all the "hot" parts are mounted to the "roof" as that is thicker then the bottom plate and help as a heat sink and vibration control.
I can say that it is a "cool" running amp compared to how hot even the best cool running Class A/B amps are. I can say that it should not worry you at all.
3) Apogees, wow, very nice. What is your other equipment?
4)("If I cannot feel the emotion of the music & feel it in my heart & make me want to stand up a boogie, it’s no real sounding.")
I know exactly what you mean. Let me tell you about a friend. He has a VERY nice system (even a custom room) that is VERY revealing and transparent. Since he put in the Veritas the hairs on your arms stand up when you hear the music. I wish you could hear it because I think it is what you stated above.
5) Merrill. Great guy. You said it so well about what the whole story is when it comes to the Veritas amps and Merrill Audio.
Well after waking up and not being able to sleep it is now 4AM so I better stop for now and try and sleep.
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The great and powerful AudioOracle has spoken!! That's it, no more debate, the all knowing made his decree. He's back down from the mountain top.
So AudioOracle, all of these Audiophiles that sold their Pass (including Class A), ARC(both tube and SS), Ayre, Devialet, CJ(both tube and SS), Krell, Atma-Sphere and etc, amps and bought the Veritas after hearing it know nothing, can not hear and you know better.
("don't sound as good as a top shelf conventional amplifier,") Top self means expensive, right.
Look, there is ALWAYS something else to hear and consider. But not something you sell please.
Funny how you where so anxious to be a dealer for the Veritas. Now that you are not you have nothing good to say. So from that and your statement I take it your NOT a dealer for ANY NCore based amps.
To all; The Veritas are just one of a handful of amps at varying price points that are really worth owning. They are by no means the end all. Never said they are.
But they are one of the few.
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Tim, well said.
I would like to make a suggestion, if you are willing, that besides trying the Abletec get a set of Hypex NC400 and a set of Pascal modules. Then you can compare the best, though the NC400 is not on the same level of sonics as the NC1200. Not sure if the Pascal and Albetec that are available to DIY is the same offered to OEM either.
If I had the time I would do it myself. |
Paul, if you are willing I would really like to know what the other equipment are in your system. I might be able to give you some incite in relation to the Veritas.
Best, Al. |
Tim, I know several very competent OEM who have done many mods to the NC400 and even though it made it sound better they all felt it still was not as good as an NC1200. There is more to it then you think. I have heard both and it is easy to hear the difference in a very good system.
Sorry to hear about Pascal. I think they could give the Ncore real competition.
The Albetec being less then half the price of the Ncore is meaningless if they do not sound as good or better then the Ncore. |
So Dave, all your years in the business makes your OPINION the ONE and ALL the OTHERS are SECONDARY.
Yes, you are entitled to your opinion. But you state your opinions like it they are all knowing. Hell it is in your handle. Oracle!
But I must state again that your ONE opinion vs ALL the others who have traded their ARC, CJ, PASS amps, and so many more brands, for the Veritas amps mean a hell of a lot more the your one opinion. Many of them also have years of experience in audio. Many have spent years tweaking and spent countless hours on vibration control, power conditioning and room treatments.
But even if the did not, does that make their opinion on what they hear any less valid then yours.
["What is the difference between good amps and great? It is the sense of presence, it is their dynamics, it is there ability to create a realistic soundstage and lastly bass control and dynamics."]
Well, I agree with part of your above statement but you leave out so much more that also matters.
Like the reproduction of realistic tones of each instrument, the attack of the leading edge and decay of the trailing, top to bottom interrogation, a top end that just keeps going but is never harsh on its own, a bottom end that never booms or is bloated, but is firm and extended and so much more.
If what makes a great amp great and a good amp only good is only what you mentioned then all amps wood sound the same. And most do.
The above and the following are way a few amps sound great. They DO NOT ADD COLOR to the painting of the reproduction of the music. No rose colored glass to look through.
IMHO that is what the best PASS LABS Class A mono amps do, as an example besides the Veritas amps. Yes there are more but not many. And I am only talking about amps that are not the cost of a new Lexus and above. Say NO more then $20,000. But many can be found for a lot less. |
Paul, what are your listening impressions of the Veritas amps? |
Paul-Take your time and enjoy (but I am waiting with baited breath) Muddy from Heaven. |
Hi Paul. First I must say you have a very nice system.
["Temporary source- Oppo 95( I'm looking for a tubed CD/SACD player with XLR outputs & a volume control to feed direct to the VERITAS)
Pre/pro- Classe SSP-800
Speakers- Apogee Studio Grands Piano black
Subs- Dual JL Audio 212
Cables I/C- Tara Labs The One 1M
Cables speaker- Audioquest Caldera(Double runs 6' each)"]
I asked about your system not because the Veritas, being a Class D amp might not integrate well into your system but because the Veritas can expose any weak links in your system. Any great sounding amp would do the same thing in your system.
IMHO may I suggest that though the OPPO is a very fine player it is the one to replace. Also you would be better served to go the route of a stand alone DAC and computer and not use a CD player at all.
Rip all your CDs to your computer and do the following.
1) Get a dedicated computer. Mac or PC.
I use a Mac Mini with a Quad Cure, 16GB Ram, solid state hard drive just for the operating system and an external regular hard drive for music storage and playback. Use Firewire or Thunderbolt to connect the XHD to the Mac. Only use the USB on the Mac to connect to a DAC.
2) Get a stand alone DAC. One that uses USB to connect to the computer.
3) Get a DAC that is also DSD capable.
There are many great sounding DACs that retail from $2,500-$5,000 and you can get them for less. If your budget is less then there are a few in the $1,500-$2,000 range that come very close to the others.
Make sure the one you get has XLR outs in case you decide to connect it direct to the Veritas amps.
You can get a lot of info on Audio Circle and Computerudiophile web sites.
By the way, your two runs of speaker wire will serve you well with the Veritas. It will give you a better sound vs just one run. |
Paul, regardless of your conclusions of the Veritas after 12 hours of listening, as Guido said they improve markedly over time. That said they need to be on all the time and if turned off need anywhere from several hours to 24-48 hours to come into its own again depending on the time spent off.
I would recommend that all amps be unplugged from their power source for around a day every couple of months. You will get better long term performance.
Even if your conclusions are favorable after just 12 hours you will be in for a better experience after more hours on the amps.
By the way, when you install the Stillpoint footers make sure to leave a space the size of a playing/credit card between the base of the Stillpoint and the base of the amp. DO NOT tighten them ALL the way up against the amp. Also make sure to crack the cap on the footer about a 1/4 to a 1/2 turn. If you do not do both of these then you will not be hearing how well the amps can sound. |
Paul and Guido. Paul if you need more hight then do what I did. Use the Stillpoints Ultra SS. Or come from the top if it is your speaker wire. They are worth the money. I tried both the Ultra Mini that the Veritas comes with and the SS and it was easy to hear the improvement that the SS made over the Mini. And I was not the only one.
I understand that they have many hours on them but they were off for a long time so you should give them a good 50 hours of play and not turned off, even if you like the way the sound.
Guido. I really like my High Fidelity Cables. I use the Interconnect and Speaker cables. The Interconnects are the CT-1 RCA in a special XLR Balanced configuration that the Designer (Rick S) helped me with because he was still trying to get his finale Balanced design done and out.
The speaker cables are the CT-1E with a Jumper that Rick made so I could replace the Jumpers that came with my B&W 802D speakers. If I had the extra money I would have a second set of the CT-1E so I could bi-wire the speakers to the Veritas. I did that with my previous set of speaker cables and it made a huge improvement. Oh well, someday.
You should give Rick a call. He is a very willing to talk. |
Mattnship. I can give you several layouts with the Veritas for you.
Mine) Speakers: B&W 802D
Preamp: None- exaSound e20 MK III with .082 clock DAC.
One friend) Speakers: Magnepan 20.1
Preamp: ARC Ref 3
Second Friend) Speakers: Sanders Sound model 10
Preamp: Miracle Audio Devinitive linestage but also at times a Lynx Hilo Dac with out the preamp.
Hope this helps. |
FYI there is a new review on Enjoy the Music for the Veritas.
http://www.enjoythemusic.com/superioraudio/equipment/1213/merrill_audio_veritas_monoblock.htm |
Petland, can you share which NC1200 Amps you have heard?
Thank you in advance. |
Mattnshilp, several things.
1) If you have not done so already with the Ultra SS.
Make sure NOT to seat them against the bottom of the Veritas Amps. Leave a space the size of a playing card or so.
Make sure to unseat or crack the top hat of the Ultra SS about a half a turn or so.
If you do not do the above you will not get the best out of the Ultra SS.
2) Get better power cords if you have not done so. Ask Merrill about trying the new Waveform Power Cables. WOW for the money.
3) I owned the PS Audio PW/MKII at one time. Please let us know what you think of the new Direct Stream DAC.
Also I would love to hear your system some time and talk Audio if you are up to it. If so please PM. |
Veritas and Horn Speakers. A match made in Heaven.
Who said Class D Amps and Horn Speakers do not go together.
I have heard the Veritas with these Horn Speakers.
Sadurni Acoustics Staccato horn speakers
http://sadurniacoustics.com/product.html
I had a chance to hear the two together in a dedicated treated room a few times and was blown away by what I heard.
I was never a big Horn Speaker guy. As good as Horn Speakers can sound there was always that horn sound that ruined it for me.
But these horn speakers do not seem to have that problem.
Of course they are not cheap but if they are in your price range (and you have the room for them) you owe it to yourself to hear them.
With the Veritas Amps the sound they produced was breathtaking.
With really great tube amps the sound was very good but the Veritas Amps allowed every bit of detail to be heard but without being harsh or dry sounding. The sound was not bright or spotlighted. The leading and trailing edges are spot on. All the harmonics right on. It was just so right in all aspects of sound reproduction.
Run, no, take a jet plane and hear this combo. But be ready to buy, because your are going to want this setup.
I know I would if I could swing it. Well, at least I have the Veritas Amps.
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+1. On both the Veritas Amps and the Stillpoints Ultra SS footers. I agree that they make a worthwhile improvement. Not only to the Veritas vs the Ultra Minis but under anything.
I have a set on my B&W 802D speakers.
I also have tried Merrill ANAP Speaker and XLR Interconnect Cables.
They are so good I sold my High Fidelity Cables, CT-1E Speaker and Interconnect Cables and bought the ANAP Cables.
The ANAP were so close and so much cheaper.
Matt, what are your thoughts on the ANAP Cables by Merrill. |
