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Mcintosh C-2300 first impressions

I bought an C2300 from an authorized mac dealer with return rights minus shipping. I have 11 days to listen to it. My current preamp is the Counterpoint SA-5.1 that has had the line and phono stage upgraded by Mike Elliott (the original designer/engineer of Counterpoint gear). Since I use a low output cartridge, I also use the Counterpoint SA-2 in conjuction with the SA-5.1. My amp is the Jadis Defy 7 MKII. What I was hoping to achieve was to retain all of the sound quality of the SA-2/SA-5.1 combo while lowering the noise floor compared to my current phono section (the line section of the SA-5.1 is very quiet).
My initial impression from my first night of listening is that the C2300 has a refined, polite presentation in a button-upped British sort of way with a sweet top end. However, it sounds thin much like a SS preamp sounds and it doesn't have much in the way of a bottom end which can even be heard on acoustic bass. Forget any type of wowie-zowie bass punch with this preamp. Voices also don't sound as real as my current preamp. And these listening impressions come from listening to LPs, CDs, and 15 ips 2 track tape. I guess if I didn't know any better I could be happy with this preamp, but unless things improve soon it will be going back.
For those of you who own and love the C-2300, I would love to know what preamp it replaced in your system. I love all of the creature comforts this preamp has to offer with 8 inputs, 4 sets of balanced inputs, a cool remote, etc. I do think it is a bit garish looking in person with different shades of green lights as well as blue. If this preamp doesn't start fleshing out more of the music, it will be going back. And please don't tell me that it takes magic Telefunken 12AX7s to make this preamp come alive. I have heard mixed reviews with some owners not liking the Telefunkens at all and actually preferring the Mcintosh selected 12AX7s while others who are hooked on Telefunkens of course swear by the improvement they expected to hear.

Mark
mepearson

Showing 6 responses by mepearson

mepearson OP
100 posts
 
Oscar, I never thought the 2300 would be a significant step up from the SA-5.1. I was just hoping it wouldn't lose any of the magic while providing the extra inputs and features you mentioned. The 5.1 is a tough act to follow in terms of its sound quaility and it appears the 2300 is not up to the task. What I was most interested in is if others who own the 2300 think there is anything missing on the bottom end and if they think it is rather on the thin side across the audio band or if this is just my perception.
mepearson OP
100 posts
 
I appreciate everyone's comments. I should have clarified that this preamp is either a demo unit or it is used. Audio Classics offers the 11 day return period which I think is quite fair. The salesman told me the unit was fresh back from Mcintosh in January and that Mcintosh installed new tubes when it was back. It was packaged like a new unit when I received it. This is my first dealings with Audio Classics so I can't be either a great customer or a bad customer and I certainly wouldn't feel right asking for an extension to their 11 day policy. I have never claimed to have the fastest ears in the west, but it didn't take long to figure out that the 2300 in my system has no real bottom end and lacks the dynamics that seperate the good from the great. My collection of 12Ax7s is rather motley as it is not a tube I have collected over the years (too bad its not 12AU7s as I have an outstanding collection of NOS tubes). I am not going to have time to order up some fancy tubes for this Mac before it needs to wing its way back to New York in 11 days so I will have to listen with the stock tubes. I also will not make the leap of faith that NOS Telefunken tubes will fix everything that I perceive to be lacking in this preamp and make a purchase decision predicated on that belief. It needs to stand up and sing with what Mcintosh delivered it with and they have put their name on these tubes.
mepearson OP
100 posts
 
Peter-I have the Counterpoint SA-2 pre-preamp. You really shouldn't need it with the 2300 with my Benz Glider .4 mv cartridge, but the only way I can reclaim some of the magic with LPs is to use the SA-2 into the 2300's MM stage. Straight in to the MC input of the 2300 just doesn't sound good at all.
mepearson OP
100 posts
 
Happily, this is beginning to be a tale of two preamps. Yesterday when I posted some further thoughts, I was 99.9% convinced that I was going to send the big Mac back. I put my digital music server to its best use yesterday and had it streaming music to the 2300 for most of the day. Last night when I went to sit down and listen to the system, I couldn't believe my ears that this was the same preamp. The bottom octave that had been MIA was suddenly there and the midrange had fleshed out considerably from the earlier sessions. The highs were still sweet as they were upon the first listen. If I hadn't heard this for myself, I wouldn't believe such a transformation in such a short time was possible.

As for the comments posted from HP's review, Yes, I know about them and I read the review when it first came out. That review is the one that piqued my interest in the first place. I am also aware the latest issue of TAS also gave it an editor's choice award. The other comment was that if I sent it back, I would find myself missing something and I now believe that to be true. If last night's exerience repeats itself tonight (the music server is doing its duty again today), I can see that are things I would not want to give up.

Last night I mainly listened to LPs (still using the SA-2 into the MM inputs of the 2300) and reel to reel tapes (2 track 15 ips). There was an ease and naturalness that was bewitching. I am still dumbfounded what a difference a day makes as the saying goes.

If NOS tubes really take this preamp to another level (and the reviews on that seem to be mixed with some people preferring the stock tubes to Telefunkens), this could be a scary good preamp-specially if it continues to bloom as music flows through it.
mepearson OP
100 posts
 
So which Telefunkens does everyone prefer for the 2300? Smooth plates or ribbed for her pleasure?
mepearson OP
100 posts
 
When I re-read my initial post, I don't feel so bad. The C2300 has done something that no other preamp in my experience has ever done, and that is a wholesale change in sound quality over a period of 24 hours. All of things that I was complaining about disappeared in such a short period of time that I was and am astonished. And the good news is that I didn't need NOS tubes to change the sound of this preamp-I just needed break-in time. At some point I will still experiment with NOS tubes due to the very strong feelings that other posters have on the further positive impact it will have to the sonics of the 2300. If true, that would be really great.

As for the stock tubes, they are very quiet, the top end is sweet and extended, the bass is really good as is the midrange. The C2300 is a very quiet preamp. You can clearly hear the difference between the absolute noise floor of your LP playback system vice the noise floor of the actual LP you are playing. Before a song starts, you are hearing your absolute noise floor. Once the song starts, you are now hearing any noise associated with the actual recording. For instance, on LPs that are sourced from tape, you can hear the very gentle tape hiss as the song begins. On good quality LPs, this very low level hiss stands in sharp contrast to the almost sound of silence of the actual LP. Pretty cool.
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