It seems that the Linns are just not cool or trendy anymore.
Since I put the Denon 103R cartridge on mine (Linn Axis actually) though, it sounds better than ever to me and I have not felt a need to change when I listen to other newer tables on other high end systems at dealers so far.
SO for me, I have to say that the lesser Axis is competitive so I would expect the LP-12 to be so as well.
I've also been a big Thorens fan also and would go to a good Thorens as well in a heartbeat if I had to.
Also, if cost is the indicator, it seems the very best these days cost 10X as much as the Linn or more, so is it even a fair comparison? |
Chayro,
The fact that the Linn has been a highly regarded standard fore so long is in itself a valuable reason to own one before owning something else, as you point out.
I've never owned an LP12 but the Axis is as easy to set up and requires as little maintenance as any table I've owned. The only difficulty perhaps is that there is not a removable headshell to make mounting cartridges easier, but it is still not a problem. I've run my Linn Axis without issue for over 20 years now, including record cleaning on the table running, and it even still has the original belts and sounds better than ever with my latest associated gear. |
I suspect the answer to the poster's question simply depends on ones point of view more than anything else. |
"the Linn is then and now superseded by better designs"
Wouldn't surprise me after 20+ years.
Its still a classic and a long time reference standard though! |
"that a cheap used LP12 bought from the usual s/h marketplaces is quite OK"
I'd go even further and say a used Axis is quite OK also. Use a good matching cartridge though. Denon DL103R on teh Linn Basik tonearm with a good phono pre-amp (and step-up device if needed, see my system for example) sounds as good as anything I have heard recently to me.
I would rather spend my time listening to music than re-configuring turntables, so if I had to replace my Axis, I would do it with something similar that I can live with without regret without having to perform major surgery on it. |
NO_regrets said:
"I didn't once think about what a new table would sound like."
I feel the same way even with my lowly Axis.
The Axis is not any harder than most table to set up correctly. You just need to use the standard paper cartridge mounting templates that Linn provides. These can be downloaded over internet and printed on any decent black and white home printer. Couldn't be easier or cheaper....
What is it about the LP12 that people seem to think makes it such a beast to set up properly? I don't see it with the Axis. Maybe the answers for those fed up with LP12s is to step down to an Axis, if you can find one.
I did spend a lot of time mounting various cartridges on various tables I sold working in various Hi Fi chains many years ago, which might give me an advantage over many that at most may do it once in a blue moon at most these days. Practice does make perfect with getting these things right. |
"It's not mounting cartridges that's tough with the LP-12, it's getting the suspension properly balanced. That's what makes people nuts."
That's never been an issue for me with my Axis. I've had it for over 20 years.
Normal stylus wear is the only issue I've had to deal with in all that time.
An Axis can be had for much less than an lp12. It's said to have the larger Linn's best attributes in a simpler and more user friendly package. |
Redhunter,
I'm curious what cartridges have you used in comparison between Axis and LP12 and with which tonearms and corresponding phono pre?
IS it an apples/apples comparison of equally well matched cartridge to tonearm in each case and playing through same system otherwise?
I always wonder when tables sound different how much is the table itself as opposed to the overall synergy among table, cart, and tonearm, which is always very key IMO. |
Redhunter,
I have an old Goldring cart of some kind on my old Dual 1264 on my second 2 channel a/v system and it too sounds really good in particular with the phono stage on the vintage Yamaha cr-420 receiver I have been using of late. Prior to the Yammy, when used with built in Tandberg and NAD phono stages, I always thought of it as just OK. Synergy was everything in this particular case. IT absolutely sings like never before now and though it sounds different, I find it equally enjoyable in its own way as the Axis/Denon combo in my main rig. |
Wow, interesting stories about "big brother Linn".
How is it that I see high end shops these days carrying the Linn line as almost entry level high end products aside many other competing even more highly touted lines?
Also I recall the dealer I bought my Axis from back in the 80s also carried Rega, in fact I bought the Rega Planar 2 first and then went to the Linn because I didn't think the Rega was any better than the Dual I had before that or the Philips 312 I had before that.
That dealer must have been one valiant sole to dare resist the Linn police and sell another line. |
Schipo,
Yes.
Why:
- It's the best table I have ever owned
- It's been extremely reliable (20+ years and still going with no down time)
- in its current location on carpeted solid concrete foundation and massively heavy wood table, I have absolutely no issues ever with noise or feedback.
- Despite having a large record collection and growing and liking the sound, I only listen to vinyl maybe 20-30% of the time. My digital has always been competitive sound wise and when I have time to listen, I do not want to spend time manipulating vinyl. Since adding a music server, this is more the case than ever.
- when I do play records these days, it sounds even better than ever with other recent upgrades including DL103R cartridge and ARC tube pre-amp with phono section.
Basically, as long as it keeps working, the Linn is a non-issue for me. It sounds fantastic and nothing else I hear really sounds any better to my ears.
Basically, if it ain't broke, I ain't looking to fix it.
If the Linn does go up someday, I would most likely consider a different table mainly for just a change of scenery after all these years and mainly to perhaps provide a higher mass tonearm option for the low compliance DL103R cartridge, because I think that might work even better. |
Syntax,
With your gear, the Linn being its equal is like saying Johnny Unitas is Peyton Manning's equal.
Unitas was pretty good in his day and few would find fault with him nonetheless despite it being difficult to argue that he was the equal of today's "SOTA".
I would still like to pay him the salary he earned and have him in his prime on my team today though. I might even chose that over paying Peyton what he is worth in comparison. |
Schip,
I wouldn't assert that it (my Linn Axis) is the "best". I'm sure it can be improved upon if desired.
I only state that I am satisfied with the sound, performance and value it has awarded me over the years, so I am not compelled to change.
I also have a $100 Skagen watch that keeps perfect time, and looks sharp that I am not likely to give up until it finally dies. I know there are "better" watches out there, but I have no need. |
I think Linn is predictably trying to play it both ways with their expensive upgrades.
1) Their tables are a well established reference standard, for better or for worse, for many, so they keep it unchanged and market that. Who can blame a company for keeping their flagship product around?
2) There's lots of money to be made selling upgrades to the long time reference standard as well, so they gladly do that as well.
Nothing strange here that I see. |
"It is very satisfying for a large number of listeners."
Would we even be having this discussion about a product that debuted so long ago if this were not the case?
Longevity is one of the best indicators of utility..... |
