2. amps-preamps
  3. 1213568119

I Feel Overwhelmed....Please Help

Hello, all.

I have recently decided to begin upgrading to stereo components around the entry level audiophile range, and move away from home theater stuff. I need help, as I had no idea until I began recently researching modern amps, preamps, integrateds, etc, just how huge the selection there is available.

Currently, I have the following:

Harman Kardon AVR 235 A/V receiver
Front L&R channels:
50 Watts per channel
@ <0.07% THD, 20Hz–20kHz into 8 ohms

Harman Kardon FL 8385 CD Changer

Klipsch KG 5.5 Floorstanding Speakers
frequency response 34Hz-20kHz±3dB
power handling 100 watts maximum continuous (500 watts peak)
sensitivity 98dB @ 1watt/1meter
nominal impedance 8 ohms
tweeter K-85-K 1" (2.54cm) Polymer dome compression driver
high frequency horn 90°x60° Tractrix® Horn
woofer Two K-1023-K 10" (25.4cm) Injected Carbon Graphite cones
Bass reflex via front-mounted port

Grado Labs SR325 Headphones

I use the receiver strictly for stereo music playback with my HK CD changer, or I play .flac or .mp3 files via input to the receiver from my computer sound cards optical digital output.

I want to keep my Klipsch speakers for now, along with my Grado cans, which I love. OTOH, I have not been particularly happy with the two HK components. Although the sound is not totally bad, it is a tad too bright, and it is fatiguing to listen over long periods of time. My room acoustics are not ideal either, with hardwood floors and drywall throughout. The listening rooms dimensions are 14'x13', with speaker placement along and near the corners of the 13' wall. At present, I cannot afford any of the acoustic treatments I see on the various internet sites.

From what I have seen so far, I think I would favor the warm, rich, clear sound of tube components. My Klipsch speakers are highly efficient at 8 ohms, so I should not need higher power, but I don't want to lose bass response either. I have not had much experience listening to higher end audio, but I really loved the sound of a friends McIntosh receiver (late 70's vintage), and another friends 60's vintage tubed HH Scott receiver, both systems paired with matching speaker pairs of the same brands respectively. Those experiences are why I believe I should really consider tube amps.

Would someone please be so kind as to suggest components that would allow me to play CD, CD-R, and digital music files based upon what I stated above? I suppose I could do without the ability to directly play back the digital files, but a CD player is a must have. Oh yeah, my budget is up to $3000, but I want to get as much as I can for the best possible price under that ceiling. Thanks.
chap_cat

Showing 8 responses by macrojack

macrojack
1,303 posts
 
Key word is "claims".

Dcstep is right -- you look pretty helpless. Go to a dealer.
macrojack
1,303 posts
 
Since you have great headphones that you love, consider a Melos SHA-1. It was originally created to function as a world class headphone amp and wound up becoming a Stereophile Class A preamp as well. There's one for sale right now for $450.
The OPPO 980H universal player sells brand new for $169.95 and Amazon will sell it to you with free shipping. This unit defies all assumptions about price/performance ratios. I'm using one as my primary digital in a very high performance system. It will meet and exceed your needs.
That leaves power amplifier and I'm really inclined to recommend something very sexy and solid state like a Rowland Model One or an Ayre V-3. Both would be excellent and you should be able to buy either for about $1100. Spend a bit more on conservatively priced interconnects and cables and you will be shocked at how much better your Klipsch now sound.

But ---- you probably have enough money left over to look into a speaker upgrade. Vandersteen would be nice.
macrojack
1,303 posts
 
Feeling overwhelmed is going to cost you money. It will cause you to run straight into the arms of a waiting dealer. An audio dealer is just like a card dealer. His job is to take advantage of the difference between what he knows and what you know. The benefit available to you on Audiogon is the option of bypassing the dealer and being self taught with guidance from us. The problem that you will encounter with us is determining who has good advice and who is merely recommending what they like. I recommended an OPPO 980H DVD player for a digital source. I've owned high dollar and well reviewed digital equipment in the past and bought this thing because it was suggested by a guy who sold me some excellent tubed monoblocks. I didn't really believe what he was telling me about how musical it is but I took the plunge anyway figuring I could use a video player and these were known to be good for that. Result of this purchase is the sale of my DAC. The OPPO is phenomenal.
As I stated above, it will cost you only $170 and it will resell in 5 minutes for $140 if you find it disappointing.
If it proves to be what I'm saying it is, then you have a lot more money free for other upgrades.
I recommended the Melos SHA-1 because your headphones are important to you and I suggested the Ayre or Rowland amp because both are very musical and depreciation proof. You'll get your tube sound from the SHA and you'll get fuss-free performance out of either power amp.
Furthermore, you will be spending only slightly more than half your money. That means you can consider upgrading the speakers.
If you want newer stuff, consider an Eastern Electric CD player. It has tubes, a headphone jack and a volume control.
If CD is going to be your only source, you won't need a preamp at all. Just go straight from your player to your amp(s).
macrojack
1,303 posts
 
Reubent - That sounds like the perfect solution. I was unaware of this device but I think I'll buy one just to see what it does. Thanks.
macrojack
1,303 posts
 
It's a cold fact that somebody is going to take a depreciation hit on most new equipment purchases and you can bet the queen's keyster it will be the original purchaser. This is reason enough to avoid buying new equipment at retail. If you can get a sufficient discount on new gear, that might make it worthwhile. Or, if you can get into something at a very low original purchase amount, say $170, then you stand to lose little but you still lose something. In the case of well researched used purchases, loss can be kept at or near zero. Bear in mind that resale prices are directed by street price rather than list price. If an item is readily available at thirty per cent discounts then you can look for the resale value to be correspondingly reduced. One of the best examples I know of is the famous Talon Khorus.

Since you have a somewhat limited budget and no prospects of increasing it in the next couple of years, I would expect you to be very cautious about missteps.
And with new, dealer sourced gear, you will lose money even if you love the stuff, although the loss might be delayed by years.
There are members here who are dealers, members who worship their dealer and members who avoid dealers. They all have advice for you.
macrojack
1,303 posts
 
There are wolves in storefronts too. And the notion that you're going to keep gear still prevails in me even though I've disproved that belief hundreds of times. There's always something new or different. You can bet that Chap_cat is replacing "keepers" right now.
macrojack
1,303 posts
 
Wwwrecords has it right. You can remove most of the anxiety from this whole process by just buying used product judiciously and stair-stepping your way up. It is entirely possible to make money on these exchanges but just avoiding a loss is victory enough.
The definition of vintage will vary from person to person but I would say that any product with a proven track record that has reached the bottom of its depreciation curve qualifies nicely. With products that fit this description, you would be hard pressed to lose money. With new product you can be certain of losing.
The amplifiers I mentioned above (Rowland Model 1 and Ayre V-3) are near classics which will hold their value indefinitely while providing you with a performance level and reliability quotient you are unlikely to find in new Chinese product at anywhere near the price. I'm sure there are many others. I chose these examples because I'm familiar with them.
If you want tubes in the chain, it would be better to have them in the preamp than in the amp for numerous reasons.
You can also go for a tubed CDP although I still maintain you will be shorting yourself by passing on the OPPO 980H.
It provides a big advantage when limited funds are available.
If you bought either amp I named, and the OPPO, you would have enough money left over for a used Modwright SWL 9.0 SE.
and some good wires. The Monster stuff isn't going to play at this level.
macrojack
1,303 posts
 
Dcstep says:

I'm assuming that you're a hobbiest. If so, then anything that you do will be half baked vs. a designer that's spent his whole career designing the best circuits that he knows how to make.

I say:

Jeff Rowland is still a hobbyist and nothing he does is half-baked. He's a designer who has obviously won your heart.
But when I first met him he was a doing Hafler mods. Most of our "designers" were just guys who liked to experiment. Very few have a lengthy academic resume.

Dcstep says:

Once again I'll say, some people like to play around and experiment with tubes to see if they prefer different tubes over what the designer chose. I think that's fine for those people that enjoy that, but I'm in the very substantial camp that would rather pay a designer to do his best work and buy accordingly.

My response:

Many different tubes might be a realistic option in a given tube design. The manufacturer normally supplies tubes with his product. What he supplies may or may not be optimum. And it may or may not be the customer's preference. No designer, however, can or will supply all options. That's up to the owner. Additionally, NOS tubes, by definition, are found, not merely sourced like a currently available, currently produced item. There are specialists who deal in NOS tubes but they too must find them. They can't just email the factory and have a new batch sent over.
Consequently, manufacturers don't generally have the tubes on hand to make all options available. Some, like VAC and Music Reference, have stock available but they too may have gaps while they strive to locate the next pool.

When you buy a new car it has tires on it. They are the ones that were chosen by the designer. Are they the only tires you will ever use? Or will you try some half-baked option from Michelin or Pirelli or Bridgestone instead of the factory supplied, designer specified originals?

My guess is that, once you graduate from the Rod Tompson School, and get into tube world yourself, you will be among it's loudest proponents. Until that happens, you should stick to what you know.
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